Woman Denied US Citizenship Because of Atheism

reply to post by votan


reply to post by Agree2Disagree

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

That seems to contradict the thread title as well as the tone of the original article... which insinuates that it was not her lack of willingness to kill, but rather her atheism that denied her citizenship.

The origin of her morality is the question. The US allows for conscientious objection, but only if it is backed by religious doctrine. Since she has no religious affiliation, being an atheist and all, she can't provide the documentation that the INS is asking for. It's their bureaucratic red tape that requires this religious documentation and rejects her individual morality. It's the US government's bias toward religion and ideology that God is the only authority on morality. It's a blatant violation of separation of church and state.

As far as the thread title, I would have liked to use the original title:
WOMAN BEING DENIED CITIZENSHIP BECAUSE HER MORALITY DOESN’T COME FROM RELIGION, from the linked article, but I thought it was too long to totally fit in the ATS headline box, and would get cut off. So, I tried to sum it up, more briefly.

reply to post by votan


Forgive me. I should have said "I don't know why SOME Christians obsess over such things".

reply to post by votan


Yep. I am quite spiritual myself and consider christianity as an elohim project but it quickly got taken over by the nephelim and was perverted into a satanic organisation. Jesus nailed on a cross is the absolute perversion and misrepresentation of what intended originally. Christians are unknowningly worhipping his death, rather than praising his good soul and miraculous abilities.

Its gotten to the point where I just tell people I am agnostic and believe in aliens. I also have more respect for atheists, because they are neutral, than for mainstream christians. This planet has been run by psychopaths that are aiming for complete chaos and destruction. I want no part of it and urge others to shun away from these low life bottom feeders.

reply to post by windword


Interestingly enough, Islam teaches that Jesus survived the crucifixion as well. They believe Allah placed him in a state of suspended animation. Then he was healed in the cave. Walks out looking like a hero. Personally I don't buy any of it. 2,000 years ago if you stick a spear in someone's ribs that is a for sure death sentence. And I don't believe in zombies.

But that misses the point a little. I know full well that many people are born into Christian homes and die Christians. But all of them have at least HEARD of atheism. I know they have also pondered the thought as well. They have all heard of other religious ways as well.

If Christianity is ALL someone knows, they are beyond logical help anyways. I mean, you can tell them God dosn't exist, but you'd have better luck talking to a brick.

I wonder if this line from her statement is what put the process on hold for her:

my lifelong spiritual/religious beliefs impose on me a duty of conscience not to contribute to warfare by taking up arms

Given that she said that, one would assume that she belongs to some religious group, which has a leader, who could provide the information that USCIS wants.

reply to post by octotom


Yeah, that statement made me scratch my head too. Perhaps she's referring to her religious upbringing. But she has no religious affiliations now.

reply to post by windword


A person can be spiritual without being religious. I think that is how she in intended that to read. You can equate spiritualism with religion, but one does not necessitate the other. And that works both ways. I have met PLENTY of "religious" folk who are not spiritual at all. Politicians for instance.

reply to post by JayinAR


The basis of spiritualism is very real. It is how people interpret something that makes the difference between good intentioned and bad intentioned. I believe in jesus christ but was he an alien? I think so. I believe in satan but was he also an alien? I think so. I believe in god but was he an alien? I think so.

It is interesting that the book of giants has been largely ignored. We are not supposed to know anything about annukaki, nephelim, elohim, giants, actual archeology, ufos, aliens, teleportation, telekinesis, mythological creatures, origins of paganism, etc.

You wonder why they all want to come to a country that has so many Christians. Wouldn't atheists feel more at home in purely atheistic or majority atheistic countries such as North Korea

reply to post by lucid eyes


You mean SECULAR countries. And like it or not the US is secular as well.

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by lucid eyes

 

You mean SECULAR countries. And like it or not the US is secular as well.

No, I mean countries in which there are many atheists vs. many christians. Atheists should feel most comfortable in North Korea. Ever since the atheist Soviet Union crumbled under mass-poverty, starvation and infrastructural collapse, NK remains as an Atheistic Paradise. Why they wouldnt mass-emigrate there is a complete mystery to me.

reply to post by lucid eyes


So unless people want to live under a religious theocracy they should move to North Korea? Bizarre

reply to post by lucid eyes


I would like some sources for that claim please.
They may have regulations prohobiting religious practices, but that HARDLY means the people themselves are atheists.
As a christer (if I was one) I don't need to go to church to believe in Christ. In fact, Jesus eludes to just this. People can make something illegal all they want, but they cannot control your beliefs. Those are internal. And in fact, it seems to me that the more impoverished people are, the more likely they are to turn to religion.

This is a very old, and rather lame, argument you are employing. I doesn't stand to even cursory criticism.

Please forgive my numerous typos.
Stupid touch screen.

post by lucid eyes

According to Religious Intelligence UK the situation of religion in North Korea is the following:
Irreligion: 15,460,000 (64.3% of population, the vast majority of which are adherents of the Juche philosophy)
Korean Shamanism: 3,846,000 adherents (16% of population)
Cheondoism: 3,245,000 adherents (13.5% of population)
Buddhism: 1,082,000 adherents (4.5% of population)
Christianity: 406,000 adherents (1.7% of population)

In the 1992 constitution, Article 68 grants freedom of religious belief and guarantees the right to construct buildings for religious use and religious ceremonies. The article also states, however, that "No one may use religion as a means by which to drag in foreign powers or to destroy the state or social order." North Korea has been represented at international religious conferences by state-sponsored religious organizations such as the Korean Buddhists' Federation, the Korean Christian Federation, and the Ch'ondogyo Youth Party.
en.wikipedia.org...

The Juche Idea, sometimes spelled Chuch'e (Chosŏn'gŭl: 주체; Hancha: 主體; Korean pronunciation: [tɕutɕʰe]), is a political thesis formed by Kim Il-sung that states that the Korean masses are the masters of the country's development. From the 1950s to the 1970s, Kim and other party theorists such as Hwang Jang-yop elaborated the Juche Idea into a set of principles that the North Korea government uses to justify its policy decisions. Among these are a strong military posture and reliance on Korean national resources.
en.wikipedia.org...

I hardly think an atheist would be comfortable with Juche ideology.

Originally posted by FollowTheWhiteRabbit
A true Christian would never want to restrict anybody from anything for religious reasons. It's just ridiculous. But I can't help but feel that there's more to this story than "she was denied citizenship because she's an atheist."

I don't know. I'll have to do some diggin' around and readin'.

Let me fix this for you:

A true person would never want to restrict anybody from anything for religious reasons. It's just ridiculous.

There doesn't seem to be much more to it; they say that she needs religious backing to oblige to military service. She is not religious, and there is no official "atheist church," so this poor woman is s*** out of luck.

reply to post by JayinAR


Here you go:

Irreligion: 15,460,000 (64.3% of population, the vast majority of which are adherents of the Juche philosophy)

Source: North Korea

Compared to European countries where the highest is 33% (France) thats the majority in NK.

See Also: Demographics of Atheism

You're right about them turning to Religion after atheist runs their countries to the ground. This is evidenced by History and is also happening in Russia right now. Ever since people are returning back to Religion, the overall economy and standards of living are increasing. Infant mortality rate, unemployment, etc. are decreasing.

So the question remains: Why wouldnt atheists mass emigrate to atheist-majority countries where they share most of the peoples values?

Not surprisingly France (most Atheists in Europe) is also rapidly going down the drain.

Originally posted by lucid eyes

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by lucid eyes

 

You mean SECULAR countries. And like it or not the US is secular as well.

No, I mean countries in which there are many atheists vs. many christians. Atheists should feel most comfortable in North Korea. Ever since the atheist Soviet Union crumbled under mass-poverty, starvation and infrastructural collapse, NK remains as an Atheistic Paradise. Why they wouldnt mass-emigrate there is a complete mystery to me.

edit on 17-6-2013 by lucid eyes because: (no reason given)

Probably because they fear getting nuked by the UN-USA-France-UK unholy imperialistic alliance. Cuba suffered quite a bit from the UN embargo as well. Why would people put themselves in such misery?

Communism collapsed equally because of embargoes and lack of motivation. I am not a communist so I have no sympathy for communism. I do like mild socialism though like it was in western europe and canada before progressivism turned to liberalism.

There is so much BS going on its pathetic, sad, evil.

reply to post by lucid eyes


I don't trust the source.
Wiki is no good.
Also, this is claiming that these people follow a political idealogy in lieu of religion. That's just silly. They have nothing to do with one another and really just illustrates, if true, a nation brainwashed by an authoritarian regime. The system promises self reliance, yet has NEVER achieved this.

I mean sure, if you keep the masses stupid and do nothing but self grandize all day, people are gonna praise you when you throw them scraps of bread. They don't know any better. But that statistic doesn't even touch the question at hand here. If I am wrong, please elaborate.

reply to post by lucid eyes


France has always been "down the drain". Honestly I have never seen the appeal of the place. If it weren't for their history in art, the place is just another big city (Paris).

Not much of one for major metros personally.