Woman Denied US Citizenship Because of Atheism

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by wildtimes

 

I didn't say you said it. I was using it as an example of atheists acting in an inflammatory way. It happens all the time. They have no regard for how their actions are taken by others. Forming an atheistic church could easily be viewed as the height of blasphemy.

As if being an individual atheist isn't blasphemous enough! Now they're going to gather into a huge blasphemous group!

OUTRAGEOUS!

Originally posted by Annee
I don't understand what is so hard to understand.

You can get citizenship as a conscientious objector.

But, our secular government is stating you can only prove it through religious affiliation.

Our secular government is stating only god believers can be conscientious objectors.

But, a precedent has already been set that an atheist can be a conscientious objector.

What about those of us who have decided to not belong to either atheism or theism? Are threads like this concerned with us as well? Or just the rights of the atheist?

And if it is for all, then why constantly bring up atheism specifically?

reply to post by JayinAR

I was using it as an example of atheists acting in an inflammatory way. It happens all the time. They have no regard for how their actions are taken by others.

That is a load of CRAP.
OF COURSE THEY DO!!!

You might not have before you "got religion", but it is NOT TRUE of all atheists! You are talking about sociopaths, and psychopaths. And, news flash: Socio- and psychopaths who suddenly "get religion" are STILL sociopaths and psychopaths. It's not "curable." And yes, I know what I'm talking about.

That's the problem with religion - MANY of the leaders are PSYCHOPATHS. You might be interested in reading "The God Virus". Fascinating look from a sociological and psychological point of view -- religion is a control tool.
Always has been, always will be. No matter what ANY religious person says (at the lay level of followers).....ask some of the former leaders of the churches, and you will get a MUCH BETTER PICTURE of how it works. Oh, and read some books. Karen Armstrong is one I recommend. Or Robert Wright. Or William James. Your choice.

Robert Wright will be the most "fun" and "easy" to read.....The Evolution of God. You'll laugh out loud, I guarantee it.

Atheists use reason, and they certainly know right from wrong. Shame on YOU now, too. :shk:

(P.S. Anyone know where Klassified is lately?)

reply to post by JayinAR

Originally posted by JayinAR
Atheists should just stick to their beliefs and shut the hell up, honestly.

Oh, if only non-atheists would do the same, huh Jay? Don't you just wish they'd shut up and go AWAY???

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I can't believe this citizenship story! Amazing! And we're supposed to have secular laws??? Hello? I hope this gets worked out for Ms. Doughty.

reply to post by Serdgiam


Not atheist or Theist? you mean Agnostics? sorry, the US government look at Agnostics as Atheist as well, according to them, either you believe in "da might gawd" or not.

In reality, there is only Atheists and Theists, however, some Atheist are spiritual, so thy add a sub category, like agnostic atheist and spiritual atheist.

reply to post by windword


Well, it is quite simple. Atheism is a lack of belief, right? It has no dogma. If you start assigning it dogma (see atheist monument across street from 10 commandments) it begins to become a full on belief system. This is contradictory to the very definition of atheism.

In both cases (the monument and the "Sunday school" for atheists) the actions are clearly viewed as inflammatory rather than to "educate people of indoctrination". Besides, who the hell asked anyone to "educate" theists anyways? You are talking, in most cases, about people who were born into a belief system. Ever heard the addage "nobody likes a braggart?" It applies here as well. NOBODY wants to be told by an uppity know it all that everything they have ever known was sheer idiocy. They are just beliefs, for crying out loud. And that goes for the atheistic view as well.

reply to post by Annee


That is a good point. And unfortunately for this woman, since she is not a citizen, she doesn't have much ground to stand on legally.

reply to post by JayinAR

Atheists should just stick to their beliefs and shut the hell up...

So i was walking downtown, there was an Atheist, standing on a box and reading a book, shouting how we are sinners and going to hell... OH WAIT!!

Find out who is the vocal majority. Sadly its the stupid ones that are most vocal.

reply to post by JayinAR


You are wrong...

The Supreme Court ruled in favor of this guy, who was a conscientious objector based on his personal moral grounds and not religious ones.

Source

In a 5-3 decision with the majority opinion written by Justice Black, the Supreme Court decided that Welsh could to be declared a conscientious objector even though he declared that his opposition to war was not based on religious convictions.

reply to post by luciddream


Definitions
Atheist: one who lacks God belief
Theist: one who has God belief
Agnosticne who maintains it is impossible to verify knowledge
Gnostic: one who maintains it IS possible to verify knowledge

I am an agnostic theist. And I didn't create any sub categories.

Originally posted by Serdgiam

Originally posted by Annee
I don't understand what is so hard to understand.

You can get citizenship as a conscientious objector.

But, our secular government is stating you can only prove it through religious affiliation.

Our secular government is stating only god believers can be conscientious objectors.

But, a precedent has already been set that an atheist can be a conscientious objector.

What about those of us who have decided to not belong to either atheism or theism? Are threads like this concerned with us as well? Or just the rights of the atheist?

And if it is for all, then why constantly bring up atheism specifically?

If you believe in a god, you are theist

If you lack belief in a god, you are atheist (a-theist)

Agnostic only means, god can not be proven or disproven.

You are either a theist agnostic, I think there's a god, but I don't know.

OR, atheist agnostic, I lack belief in a god, but I can not prove there is no god.

Everything else is based on faith, philosophy, science, etc.

reply to post by JayinAR


Do you know what is on the Atheist monument?

Its not about how to live your life, its warning, like that on a cigarette box, to avoid the disease.

An atheist believes that a hospital should be built instead of a church. An atheist believes that a deed must be done instead of a prayer said. An atheist strives for involvement in life and not escape into death. He wants disease conquered, poverty banished, war eliminated. — Madalyn Murray O’Hair


Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must more approve the homage of reason than that of blindfolded fear. — Thomas Jefferson

These don't seem like commandment to me.

Originally posted by luciddream
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

Not atheist or Theist? you mean Agnostics? sorry, the US government look at Agnostics as Atheist as well, according to them, either you believe in "da might gawd" or not.

In reality, there is only Atheists and Theists, however, some Atheist are spiritual, so thy add a sub category, like agnostic atheist and spiritual atheist.

Interesting, so I have no choice but to fit in a pre-defined box both on the governmental level as well as societal?

Is this the only option?

Will the atheist fight for someone elses rights who does not claim to be atheist? From what I see in this thread, the atheists only seem to be concerned with how it applies to their group and none other. But, I am limited, and could be entirely wrong.

Why is it assumed that when asking such questions, the person needs to be educated on the basics?

reply to post by JayinAR

Originally posted by JayinAR
In this case, if the woman had had any sense she woulda just lied and that would have been the end of it. Instead she decided to flaunt her ideals and it bit her in the ass.

We are talking about personal morals and you suggest lying would be better than telling the truth! Real moral, there.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Was the guy a citizen?

Originally posted by JayinAR
reply to post by windword

 

Well, it is quite simple. Atheism is a lack of belief, right? It has no dogma. If you start assigning it dogma (see atheist monument across street from 10 commandments) it begins to become a full on belief system. This is contradictory to the very definition of atheism.

In both cases (the monument and the "Sunday school" for atheists) the actions are clearly viewed as inflammatory rather than to "educate people of indoctrination". Besides, who the hell asked anyone to "educate" theists anyways? You are talking, in most cases, about people who were born into a belief system. Ever heard the addage "nobody likes a braggart?" It applies here as well. NOBODY wants to be told by an uppity know it all that everything they have ever known was sheer idiocy. They are just beliefs, for crying out loud. And that goes for the atheistic view as well.

Who the hell asked theists to erect a monument to the 10 Commandments, to educate society on morality? Nobody likes an uppity, holier than thou, religious fanatic!

Heaven forbid that a group of like thinkers would gather and share in conversation of subjects that they all might find to be interesting, helpful and useful! If you inflamed by their congregating YOU are the one with the problem.

reply to post by JayinAR


Gnostic Theist is the same... its just better to label as religious.

Theist = Believer

Gnostic = Believe.

Atheist = Non believer

Agnostic = Non believer with an open mind.


So there is only 3 categories...

Theist - Agnostic - Atheist. and 90% of the Atheist are Agnostic Atheist, sometimes some refer as Spiritual Atheist.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


I'm not talking about morals.
I notice a lot of people putting words in mouths around here.

reply to post by windword


Is this a democratic society?
If so the theists win every time.
Sucks, I know.

reply to post by Serdgiam


I was saying what the government thinks.

You will either fit into one of the three, there is nothing else really.

If you believe in god = Theist.

If you do not believe or rather no belief = Atheist.

If you don't believe but have an open mind = Agnostic.


im not trying to label, but what other choice do you have left? because i would like to know as well.