Need help with science...

I'll try to keep this nice and short...

Recently, I have been researching something that I believe has massive potential and I found out alot, but I face a massive problem. I need a way to cool a large organism extremely quickly. I want to reduce the temperature of this organism from 39°C to about -160° in no more than 3 seconds. I can't think of anything, and the problem is, it's not invented yet. After much speculation, I decided to ask the community...I began with YahooAnswers, and I got anything from this:

I'm soo calling PETA!

To this:

I think submerging it in liquid nitrogen is the only way.

After a few more attempts, I figured that the ATS community may have many more ideas than the average respondent on Y!Answers. Any response at all will be very welcome. I have a very detailed plan of what I want to do with this but I'm not willing to share it :S I really can't think of anything to reduce the temperature *THAT* fast.

reply to post by omass


I have detailed plans on how to do this, but like you, I'm not sharing unless you tell us what you want it for.

Or is this thread just to get attention and speculation without actually having anything to offer?

C'mon, spill the beans or face ridicule from these enquiring minds.

Put the being into space!!! or in a moon crater shadow.

reply to post by boymonkey74


I would think the vacuum of space would suffice

What size is this critter? Canned air held upside down expels some quick freezing liquid. I guess you could nearly flash freeze something small that way.

reply to post by omass


Osmium Tetroxide will preserve any organic matter before freezing it in a conventional matter.

reply to post by omass

You say "a large organism", but as that's a relative term and not absolute it would be helpful to know a couple of things, such as the approximate mass of this organism, its estimated surface area and whether it has a relatively uniform makeup or is more complex.

Also, is the starting temperature of about 39 C the organism's natural temperature (environmental or self-attained) or is it simply that of whatever it will be contained in? What percentage of this organism is water, or water based?

The key problem in determining how rapidly something can be cooled by (x) degrees is largely a function of its mass, approximate specific heat (still useful to know for cooling), and the ratio of surface area to mass. For example, something that is spherical is much harder to completely cool quickly by the same amount than something of the same mass that is much more planar -- flat and thin, with a larger surface area to mass ratio than a sphere.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by omass

 

Osmium Tetroxide will preserve any organic matter before freezing it in a conventional matter.

OsO4 is expensive and highly toxic, making it an unappealing reagent to use in stoichiometric amounts.
Wiki

I think he's looking for something more conventional... and realistic. But who knows. Maybe he's trying to freeze Han Solo

Originally posted by theRhenn

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by omass

 

Osmium Tetroxide will preserve any organic matter before freezing it in a conventional matter.

OsO4 is expensive and highly toxic, making it an unappealing reagent to use in stoichiometric amounts.
Wiki

I think he's looking for something more conventional... and realistic.

edit on 15-6-2013 by theRhenn because: (no reason given)

I guess. I used it in TEM work. It would depend on the size of the organic mass, and work environment. Definitely not something for a basement biologist.

reply to post by beezzer


Makes me wonder how expensive it is and in what quantity.


Found it...

1 Gram = $274.50

ouch!


This stuff is SUPER toxic. wow! Didn't realise how easy it would be to die from the use of this stuff without the proper gear.

Originally posted by theRhenn
reply to post by beezzer

 

Makes me wonder how expensive it is and in what quantity.


Found it...

1 Gram = $274.50

ouch!

edit on 15-6-2013 by theRhenn because: (no reason given)

This stuff is SUPER toxic. wow! Didn't realise how easy it would be to die from the use of this stuff without the proper gear.

edit on 15-6-2013 by theRhenn because: (no reason given)

I could probably start a thread on the times I used it. Graduate School, scanning electron and transmission electron microscopy. Preserving spinal cord tissues. I've heard nasty stories about accidents with it.

But if you want to preserve organic matter, there isn't anything better.

Heard one story on how someone wasn't using a fume hood and it "fixed" the guys eyes.

I would think the vacuum of space would suffice

Vacuum is actually a pretty good insulator. Same applies to moon craters, since there is also a vacuum there.

What size is this critter?

I'll probably start with something more simple...but eventually, rats.

You say "a large organism",

Think of a rat, for now.

Osmium Tetroxide

But that would kill it...-_-

reply to post by JustMike
Like I said, eventually I'd go for bacteria which should be pretty simple because the the cold would coduct pretty quickly through them. I plan on moving onto rats...which should not be easy, but I like challenges.
I plan to do this for a long time, and I will update the thread when I finish. I think I have some novel ideas, but I don't want to share them because...idea stealing. Also, the test subjects (bacteria, tissue, small mammals) should be able to survive this.

reply to post by omass


So you want to flash-freeze organic matter and keep it alive?

Um, yeah. Don't use OsO4.

Good luck!

Originally posted by theRhenn
reply to post by beezzer

 

Makes me wonder how expensive it is and in what quantity.


Found it...

1 Gram = $274.50

That's nothing....imagine the shipping and handling costs.

OP do you have to freeze the person? why not dry them out instead.

Originally posted by boymonkey74
OP do you have to freeze the person? why not dry them out instead.

I dried out one time, missed the scotch too much though. . . .

reply to post by beezzer




Heres to never drying out


Just thought of a frog I found in a pub cellar, dried out but we added water and it came back .
Read somewhere scientists are looking into how they do it so we can make babies which can dry out for deep space travel.

Not sure how big this organism is you want to freeze, if it's small, like a cockroach or something, the only thing that came to mind was this....

Pipe freezing kit, www.screwfix.com...

Not sure if it will meet your 3sec deadline, but it is conventional.

LOX works great. When I was active duty our life support guys would freeze bugs, small rodents, frogs... then shatter them. Some of those guys weren't quite right in the head as I recall...

Re reading the OT I think none should give him any answer to his question until he says he is not doing it to a human being....all sounds a little Hannibal to me