Spying by NSA Started Long Ago

Many folks on ATS may think that the indiscriminate spying on the public by the U.S. government is a rather recent occurrence. Naw! It really started with the blossoming of the wide-spread use of personal computers and the internet. Having compromised our computers since about day one as the article describes, they found it easy to move on into our new electronic gadgets.

This article from a German site in 1999 is old and hardly worth a read except for its historical value. Except it is solid, early proof of what many of us have been saying all along that we are spied upon with virtually automatic, carefully planned tactics and schemes.

For those defenders of the practice that claim that such spying was necessary after the First World Trade bombing, I differ. Why not simply tell us that they would scrutinize our every key stroke? That would cause the really bad people to seek other, more laborious means to communicate with each other, wouldn't it? And we the general public would be left in peace to chat and express ourselves as we pleased. But, I would guess, they really wanted to know more about what the collective public mind was saying to itself and collecting that data was just as relative to their real goals as nailing genuine terrorist.

www.heise.de...

It is highly likely that Government spying started long before the Internet, and even before the initial creation of the NSA. Those things just increased their capabilities so that they could do even more spying.

Originally posted by Aliensun


For those defenders of the practice that claim that such spying was necessary after the First World Trade bombing, I differ. Why not simply tell us that they would scrutinize our every key stroke? That would cause the really bad people to seek other, more laborious means to communicate with each other, wouldn't it? And we the general public would be left in peace to chat and express ourselves as we pleased. But, I would guess, they really wanted to know more about what the collective public mind was saying to itself and collecting that data was just as relative to their real goals as nailing genuine terrorist.

www.heise.de...

edit on 15-6-2013 by Aliensun because: (no reason given)

That's right. No one cooking a serious scheme is not going to be using code and many other forms of hidden hard to track communication. What's are government trying to tell us? That a serious threat can been found blowing off on line and by phone using household words and phrase to describe their machinations?

Governments for years tried to break the communists, infiltrate the communist movement in the west. This effort was full blown by 1920. When the communist realized that they would have to modify the methods that brought them to power in Russia they became quite the operators and by 1980, for example, they had infiltrated just about everything one could imagine operating behind a wall of impregnability that made the mafia look like boy scouts.

reply to post by Aliensun


The N.S.A. spying was at least going on as far back as 1994. I'm glad that it is out in the open now so that it can be discussed and regulated. You have no idea how annoying it was to have had to deal with them back then and not be able to discuss it until now.

It's as I have said before.
If you want the clearest understanding of anything, go back and work out the timeline of the events involved.
May I would refer you to:
www.abovetopsecret.com...
as one step in getting started.

Hell, the FBI was doing it long before the NSA was even dreamed of. And if you think the CIA is only focused on external individuals, yeah right.

The NSA was just the official creation of the US Gestapo. That is all.

Like the "bad guys" are going to have phone conversations. Does anyone ever watch the Sopranos?

reply to post by Aliensun


The motivations of the US government and the scope with which this has been applied are the real stories here. The fact is we could suspect all we liked, we now know that it's been happening, and we know that they have broken the law to do it. We also know that they have almost completed the biggest mass storage complex the world has ever seen, capable of storing the entire data produced by every living person throughout history several times over.

This cannot possibly be used for spying on terrorist threats, no way, no how. This kind of data gathering on free and innocent people can only be used for one purpose, and that is complete control over everyone everywhere at all times.

The US population needs to hold its government to account. If that's not done legally, and quickly, I dread what might happen. Other countries and militaries will not just sit back and watch their own people being systematically watched 24 hours a day, threatened by an unelected government and herded into a "virtual dictatorship".

Originally posted by darkbake
reply to post by Aliensun

 

The N.S.A. spying was at least going on as far back as 1994. I'm glad that it is out in the open now so that it can be discussed and regulated. You have no idea how annoying it was to have had to deal with them back then and not be able to discuss it until now.

edit on 15-6-2013 by darkbake because: (no reason given)

Actually long before that, actually before it's creation in 1952. Western Union used to bring in that days telegrams in during the night for copying. It just morphed from there getting bigger and bigger as technology grew.

This isn't the first NSA spying scandal. Everything will die down eventually and it will be "business as usual" once again.

reply to post by bg_socalif


Well I'm glad it is out in the open, because although I am a centrist, it is hard to argue with liberals because they want "proof" of everything and now it is open for discussion, while before I would get shut down because of my "poor sources" or "that's not true"

the question is, how can this damage us if they are spying on us?

what would they do to us if we doing no wrong?

I think all members on this site know that spying on American Citizens has been going on for quite a while. The main argument would be... Why doesn't anybody care? Probably because they're not doing anything wrong. Fools. It's not about if you're doing anything wrong. Once you start letting them strip away your rights right in front of you, that's when it starts. Better get your head on straight and start thinking outside the box.

I like others willingly admit that the NSA spying program and abuses began long ago, even long before 911 in NYC, but while everyone talks spying, privacy issues, the public trust, and targeting of political enemies, the media, the pundits and even the so called national security experts all fail to discuss the most important motive for collecting all the data on everyone in the USA and storing it for unknown uses.

The collected surveillance data on all Americans is collected as part of a national NSA collection process, but is stored away for later use as needed or later mined by those select corporations that extract some monetary gain from the data mining and who also extract corporate espionage data that can benefit some major but select competing corporation.

The one area of the NSA scandal that is not talked about in proper terms, is in my opinion, the NSA collection program was designed to accomplish many goals and many different political and national agendas. There is public collection as we are learning, and some very secret data collection, that they do not want us to learn about or to discuss in open forums.

It is my contention that the NSA Prism program, is but a small part of the larger NSA surveillance that is ongoing. The major surveillance target areas of concentration are, major corporations, R&D Corporate laboratories, scientist and technical experts that are actively engaged in any new technologies advances and or breakthroughs.

Areas like new energy advances, medicine, science, Virology, Biology and all the major fields of science along with their cadre of expert corporate scientists, doctors and technical experts, are all in my opinion, the key targets for NSA surveillance, because such surveillance is needed for the complete control over all new technology, and advances in medicine or whatever new technological field that rises to a point where it might impact all of society and the world.

It is the scientist, doctors, experts, in all the many corporate and University R&D laboratories across the nation that are all being monitored, so as to provide advance knowledge and advance insider notice to major competing corporations that would be most effected by any new development or new breakthrough in science or medicine.

Corporations who stand to lose the most from new energy advances or new tech discoveries, need this type of NSA govt. surveillance, to protect their corrupt, greedy and corporate interests and since the major industrial complex depends on corrupt politicians and the legislation they pass, it only makes sense that the major corporations are encouraging if not directing and targeting who gets watched by the NSA on some 24/7 basis, where every email, every key stroke these key scientist and doctors make, is monitored, so as to give the govt. and their too big to fail corporations the edge they need to remain in business, by knowing who is doing what and how far along they are before any major breakthrough takes place, that could undermine their corporate monopolies and profits.

In such a way, the govt could steal corporate secrets, patent the technology in advance and or in secret, while undermining the actual developers of the new discoveries. In such a criminal way, they could also destroy or hinder advances, by destroying and or corrupting data needed by those who would use it, to solve some needed mystery. They could even target individuals for elimination.

This is what is not being discussed in the NSA spying program and the sooner we admit that while the NSA is collecting all data on everyone and storing it at great expense and cost to the taxpayer, it is the ongoing and systemic wholesale corporate espionage that is the real danger and bigger threat to the nation and the world.

STUXNET, is in my opinion, the exact type of advanced and secret black ops project, that would be used to go out and collect and then destroy or corrupt electronically and digitally what is needed by those corporations. This is why all the data mining is actually about data mining other corporations for their intelligence and advancements in new technology and or medicine and science, which could have some monetary and or social impact to existing systems of knowledge.

Not until corporations and politicians involved in such practices are held accountable, will this madness ever cease, because if you apply the NSA surveillance to ongoing Criminal Justice Dept., anyone can see that no one is safe from the surveillance abuses that the NSA and govt is creating. The Justice Dept. and or any branch of govt., are all subject to having their internal secrets known in advance of any final reports or findings.

This type of govt.abuse must stop, for it is too complicated an issue to think that only Americans are being spied upon and that only privacy issues are at risk. It is much more of a problem than currently discussed, and we need to discuss it in new ways.

Thanks for the thread

How about the guy who went nuts on a plane? You know the recent one who they said he was going to be killed by the NSA and CIA and he worked at the Embassy in UAE. That made me dig a little and look what I found.

A US UAE company setup to do spying. And look at the Board of Directors page. Maybe the guy was not so crazy?

AmCham Abu Dhabi, the trademark of the American Business Group of Abu Dhabi, is a member of the global network of American Chambers of Commerce.
www.amchamabudhabi.org...

But that is not a US Government agency. Us Chambers of Commerce is a Republican Agency.
en.wikipedia.org...

Introduction AmCham Abu Dhabi, the trademark of the American Business Group of Abu Dhabi, is a member of the global network of American Chambers of Commerce. Since 1996, AmCham Abu Dhabi has worked to increase trade, investment, and goodwill between the United States of America and the Emirate of Abu Dhabi. AmCham Abu Dhabi is an independent, not-for-profit trade association comprised of Fortune 500 corporations, small and medium sized companies, and prominent business leaders and entrepreneurs. Regular electronic communications are sent out to members with updates on events, membership, and other strategic issues of importance to US business executives and US citizens abroad. AmCham Abu Dhabi is managed by an Executive Director and five professional staff. The Board of Directors is elected annually by members and includes four officers and 11 members at large. The Chairman is the spokesperson for the membership. AmCham Abu Dhabi holds an Annual General Meeting and a Strategic Planning Meeting to further develop itself as a leading professional organization. AFFILIATIONS: US CHAMBER OF COMMERCE: AmCham Abu Dhabi is a member of the U.S. Chamber of Commerce based in Washington D.C. The U.S. Chamber of Commerce is the world's largest business federation representing the interests of more than 3 million businesses of all sizes, sectors, and regions, as well as state and local chambers and industry associations. As the voice of business, the Chamber's core purpose is to fight for free enterprise before Congress, the White House, regulatory agencies, the courts, the court of public opinion, and governments around the world. ABU DHABI CHAMBER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY: AmCham Abu Dhabi is a member of the Abu Dhabi Chamber of Commerce and Industry in Abu Dhabi (ADCCI). Mission statement: We are the private sector representative working to advocate policies, connect businesses and expand member opportunities by providing world-class member services, with an aim to contribute to Abu Dhabi's sustainable economic development. AMCHAM MENA: AmCham Abu Dhabi is a member of AmCham MENA, which includes the AmChams of Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Morocco, Tunisia, Algeria, Bahrain and Abu Dhabi, UAE. The objective of the Council is to foster increased collaboration and cooperation amongst the members, and to work on promoting greater business opportunities between the United States and the Middle East North Africa (MENA) region. US-UAE BUSINESS COUNCIL: AmCham Abu Dhabi is a lifetime non-voting board member of the Washington DC based US-UAE Business Council. The Council is a business advocacy organization committed to the advancement of the bilateral trade and investment relationship between the US and the UAE.

No wonder Eric Prince decided to put his training camp there for his Royal Protection Mercenaries. You know for all those Princes and Kings in the oil rich countries.

His secret base for training in the UAE.
goo.gl...

Columbia complains he is taking to many of there top agents.
www.upi.com...

Turkey and Colombia agree to waive visas.
www.sundayszaman.com...

The Visa thing is good for smuggling all those mercenaries into Syria. So as you can see Black Water is still up to its old tricks.

originally posted by: bg_socalif

Actually long before that, actually before it's creation in 1952. Western Union used to bring in that days telegrams in during the night for copying. It just morphed from there getting bigger and bigger as technology grew.

They sure did mate and good call on that one - here's a relevant news article.

link

You can add the military's unmanned aerial vehicles to the list too.

They could listen to a large percentage of pay phone calls before 1982, because we had a personal run-in with them that year.

originally posted by: knightsofhonor
the question is, how can this damage us if they are spying on us?

what would they do to us if we doing no wrong?[/quote

You're always doing wrong. If an agency has a metric to find threats/lawbreakers, they will find them even if they have to invent them. The more they arrest and monitor, the better their agency looks.

A bit off topic but I've heard that CIA training involves the following (at least used to)

The field agent in training goes out to a bar or some place and tries to get someone's drivers license or Social security number without using force or stealing. Makes you wonder about all the internet scams not to mention breaches of security that happen to the tune of billions every year.