ReIncarnation, Afterlife, Our True Purpose: Questions & Answers

There's the physical body, the etheric body (vegetal) and the astral body or "soul". Once the physical body begins to cease metabolic functions, the etheric and astral bodies are no longer filtered through the sense organs of the physical body. The etheric body connects the astral and physical and allows communication between the two.

The etheric body usually deteriorates within 3 - 5 days. Since memories are stored in the etheric body, this "rotting" results in the classic "life review". There are techniques that can strengthen and fuse the etheric to the astral providing the re-incarnated with memories of the previous incarnation.

Re-incarnation is not a choice. One can choose to wait for a long time, but it is inevitable, especially if you are obsessed with the physical. Your soul resonates with the same frequency and is pulled back down into a body.

You may choose not to re-incarnate once you've matured to a certain level, however, almost all so-called "ascended masters" have chosen to come back. At that stage of development, it is nearly impossible not to feel compassion for the less developed souls, thus the choice to re-incarnate.

Real ghosts (etheric/astral bodies stranded on earth) are extremely rare. Most ghost encounters are actually shades. A shade is like a copy of that person's etheric body. Usually the astral body has moved on and the etheric body rotted away. A lot of ghost encounters, especially mediumistic channelings and the like are deceitful tactics played out by elementals and spirits (non-human intelligences).

The etheric body is made of ether. The astral body is made of a type of light/heat. Both of these are very subtle forms of relatively high frequency energy. This is why you usually hear a high-pitched ringing/buzzing when you lose consciousness/have an OBE/die. All things are actually energy vibrating at various wavelengths.

Originally posted by ultimafule
The etheric body usually deteriorates within 3 - 5 days. Since memories are stored in the etheric body, this "rotting" results in the classic "life review". There are techniques that can strengthen and fuse the etheric to the astral providing the re-incarnated with memories of the previous incarnation.

But the astral body must retain some information! If memories are only stored in the etheric body what does the astral retain?

Been reading Michael Newtons books? Seems like it, your beliefs match what he describes in his books about life between lives.

* Our 'soul' (ie. our true self) is independent from our physical bodies and can exist without it.

What ways can we identify our soul separate from our bodies? I would ask the same question in regards to the mind/brain difference. What mind exists with out brain? What "soul" exists without body and how is this assertion quantified?

* Reincarnation happens. In fact, many people (souls) have reincarnated into physical lives many, many times already, like 80, 100 or more life-times is possible.

How do we go about determining whether someone is telling us what actually happened and something they just imagined to have happened?

* In the 'afterlife' (better: 'In-Between' life) we have close ties to and live in groups with certain other souls, whose roles can be described as masters, soul-mates, guardians, teachers etc.

By what means do we come to this knowledge?

* We choose our role and fate in future physical lives for the MOST parts beforehand. It is like a big stage-play which is carefully planned in the "between life". This also includes the role of our guides/teachers/soul mates who then incarnate together with us in the physical life and appear at one stage in a life.

So, in effect our "wills" or "souls" can control the physical world, at least before birth? Why does this change after birth?

* Even "bad" lives are chosen in advance, for a reason. A soul could choose a life where it is born and dies 30 days later as a small child due to a disease. A soul might choose a life where terrible things will happen or a life with extreme hardships such as handicaps etc. A soul, of course, can also choose a life filled with richness and happiness. However, for the purpose of learning, souls are often choosing (yes, voluntarily) very difficult lives.

Again, by what objective means do we come to this knowledge?

* There is a "creator" or however you want to call it, God. We are actually part of it.

What does this "creator" create and by what means? If it uses it's will to create then it you hold that consciousness holds primacy over existence rather than the other way around. This means that your view is subjective in nature and therefore at it's roots not objective and hence unjustifiable in by objective means and therefore, suspect.


In Humanity,
Daniel

Originally posted by Manula
Been reading Michael Newtons books? Seems like it, your beliefs match what he describes in his books about life between lives.

Yes, I admit his books are great since they touch the subject from a more broader and general perspective than books which merely contain NDE accounts. What he describes just fits perfectly my beliefs, even before I knew about his books.

Originally posted by Philodemus

* Our 'soul' (ie. our true self) is independent from our physical bodies and can exist without it.

>>
What ways can we identify our soul separate from our bodies? I would ask the same question in regards to the mind/brain difference. What mind exists with out brain? What "soul" exists without body and how is this assertion quantified?
>>

For example, I am making this assertion based on reports of NDEs which give first evidence that the soul might be separate from our bodies. I am asserting this based on reincarnation accounts where people report of lives they lived before where there is no logical explanation they those people, children often, had this knowledge.

I am making this assertion because, unlike such accounts modern science, eg. neuro science has not yet shown that what we call soul is in fact "created" by our brains. The often given opposing viewpoints in regards to NDE and similar occurrences and attempts to explain them with "brain cells misfiring" etc...etc.. are not REMOTELY satisfying me to convince me. Seriously, the fact that neuro science is more or less entirely at a loss for explaining the "origin" of our mind/self is another evidence, IMO. The mechanistic view simply doesn't cut it for me. Then there is other "evidence", say in the form of experiences like OOBE or if you will even simple dreams. There too I experience a reality, I see, hear, move etc. obviously not with THIS body since THIS body at this moment is sleeping, my eyes are not even open. So..regardless, I can use my senses. As simple and naive as it sounds, how is this to explain? And then of course there are those startling NDE accounts where people were attributes no higher brain functions (say, in an ER) but had complex experiences which, according to science, cannot be explained when your brain, basically, stopped working. It's not only that those experiences are random and chaotic, they are extraordinarily similar across those who have them.

* Reincarnation happens. In fact, many people (souls) have reincarnated into physical lives many, many times already, like 80, 100 or more life-times is possible.

How do we go about determining whether someone is telling us what actually happened and something they just imagined to have happened?

You can listen to someone reporting about an (admittedly alleged) earlier life and assess the information given and its validity, plus what knowledge such a person "normally" has. If a person who has not the slightest clue about ancient history, say, the Egyptians and their burial/dead rites...and all of a sudden produces such memories IN DETAIL which are more or less valid...it should be considered whether those memories are in fact genuine and NOT simply a product of "imagination". That being said, I am not a big "fan" of hypnosis and the conclusions some make eg. from regressions...but I cannot just ignore those accounts.

* In the 'afterlife' (better: 'In-Between' life) we have close ties to and live in groups with certain other souls, whose roles can be described as masters, soul-mates, guardians, teachers etc.

By what means do we come to this knowledge?

The idea of the soul groups is admittedly right from Newton books but also matches other peoples experiences.

(CONT...)

res.

Reply to: flexy123 (I'm new here and don't know how to reference your Opening Post in ATS computerese, sorry!)

Thank you! You have an insightful understanding of reincarnational theory! Well stated!

Have you read "The Holographic Universe" by Michael Talbot? If not, I'd highly recommend it.

Although I agree with your premises, they are, as I also understand them, but imperfect human concepts of sublimely ineffable Divinity.

I, too, prefer my spiritual beliefs as simple as possible.

If you'll allow me to elucidate:

I believe the Universe is "alive", 'intelligent' and "conscious".
Life did not evolve from non-life.
Intelligence did not evolve from non-intelligence.
Consciousness did not evolve from non-consciousness.
We are "points" of consciousness.
Earth is a school and we are all here to learn.
I believe we are here to learn Love and to evolve our consciousness.
Schools have progressive "grades".
When we have learned all the lessons in "First Grade"
we "graduate" to "Second Grade".
There are many students on Earth learning their various lessons.
We vary from pre-kindergarteners to post-doctoral students.
Unfortunately we don't know each others level of evolution.
The best way to interact with one another is to follow the "Golden Rule".
The "Golden Rule" is in the Sacred Scriptures of every religion.

To quote the English poet Percy Bysshe Shelley:
"I am the eye with which the Universe beholds itself and knows itself to be Divine".

Thank you for your patience and consideration.

Peace

reply to post by evannf


The astral body retains your consciousness/will to live and your preferences and prejudices or karma. This is why many babies and young children already show likes and dislikes towards certain types of food, activities and interests, distinct facial expressions and movements. For example, a child with a natural interest in art at an early age probably was an accomplished artist in their previous incarnation.

Originally posted by ultimafule
reply to post by evannf

 

The astral body retains your consciousness/will to live and your preferences and prejudices or karma. This is why many babies and young children already show likes and dislikes towards certain types of food, activities and interests, distinct facial expressions and movements. For example, a child with a natural interest in art at an early age probably was an accomplished artist in their previous incarnation.

Indeed and also likely a necessary natural interest for the purpose of this lifetime experience.

To the OP, right on! Pretty in-line with my views. Although I look at some things slightly differently. Like everything happens for a reason and sometimes coming back to the physical isn't about you which is why sometimes you die as an infant because another soul needed the experience of that kind of loss. Same goes with suicide. It is all a perfect orchestra where every note has a purpose. Even if not for the musician him/herself.

Having never meeting my father and not seeing my mother since I was 13ish. I can't help but feel my experience this time around was learning to love someone (my daughter) unconditionally having not being loved myself. It's all rather beautiful if you ask me.

This is simply a personal experience that I had and I don't expect anyone to believe me, but I'll tell my story anyway, because it agrees with much of what you've said and it had a profound impact on my life and the way I see the world.
First off I've done some drugs. Dabbled really because I was curious. I didn't try them until I was 34. I know what you're thinking, at 34 you should be over and done with all that but I lived a pretty clean life up till then and when I realized that 100,000 dollar education my parents told me would lead me to a life of happiness and prosperity and that Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy weren't real, so I started to wonder what else might be a fabrication.
I didn't do anything that I thought I would get addicted to. I wanted to stick with something that grew out of the ground. I happen to live in a state where you can get medical marijuana, and had some friends that partook in it a leidableot so I thought I'd givedible pot chocolate a try. a try. After all they didn't seem impeded by it at all, and they did a lot of the green. So what would be the harm if I tried it once?
So they got me this chocolate bar out and out of the blue they showed up at my door step. I had just finished a bottle of beer and was cracking a second. They told me to eat a quarter of the bar and I agreed and then they smoked me up. I had smoked cigars and cigarettes before so I wasn't aloof in how to smoke. Everything got really chill and I sort of forgot where I was. We started talking about the great red woods and how they were so big you could fit a car through one. I live in a small apartment, which was getting smaller by the minute and I started wondering if I might be actually living in a giant red wood. Granted I was stoned. Really stoned.
But 45 minutes later, the chocolate hit me, and I can only equate it with nirvana. For those that don't know “Nirvana” actually means “Blow out.” I didn't know that when this was happening. I was raised Catholic. This was all new to me. I experienced Catholic guilt. This was unadulterated freedom. And it started out as infantile.
So I was giggling. And these were friends that I knew but had never been to my meager apartment and I was embarrassed because I live a very small life. One room. A bed. A fish. No TV. A computer. I'm basically one room from being homeless. So I started laughing as they were talking about all their stuff because I own nothing. And then I was laughing so much I squeezed out a little fart. It was one of those high pitched ones that everyone laughs at. So I laughed more. And then I said to myself I hope I don't laugh so hard that I pee myself. Which in my mind I already had done. But it was so funny and I was so caught up in my expulsions that my mind kept wandering. Granted in the real world NONE of this was actually happening, but I, in my mind was tearing apart at the seems.
I've never had a seizure before. I'm not epileptic. But what I can remember and what those that were there can only be explained as some sort of a seizure. My body went rigid and then completely relaxed. I was conscience through it all but what I saw wasn't the room I was in but the veils of reality being striped away. It sort of felt like I was diving deeper and deeper into water. If gets to a point that it feels you can't go deeper but I was forcing myself to while the weight of the water weighted heavier on my chest. I “saw”, ( I can only say I saw because I don't know if it was through my eyes or just in my mind,) streaks of white and black passing beside me like I running down a hallway at break neck speed.
Little did I know that my friends were panicking they kept calling my name and telling me to wake up, but I didn't want to. I wanted to see how far down the hole I could go. The farther I went though the harder it got until I almost hit this barrier. It felt like a steel wall. Like a distant echo I could hear my friend tell my other friend to call 911, but I didn't care. I wanted to see. I wanted to see what was on the other side of the wall. So I pushed as hard as I could.
I can only, describe the feeling as what it must feel when you are being birthed. Imagine you're putting on a really tight sweater where the neck is way too tight and it happens to be made of concrete. I struggled and struggled, but after I was though, the struggle no longer mattered.
I didn't know where I was anymore. I couldn't hear or see my friends or my apartment. I couldn't even see my body. The funny thing, was the first thing I thought of was “OH S@#T I'm dead!” But I was still thinking. I was still present. I continued to look for my body again, but in seeing it wasn't there I immediately realized that I didn't need it. That I was free. And then I said to myself, “Well if I'm dead, I thought I would at least get to know the meaning of life.” After all we hear so much about that. I was lead to believe that when you die you get the meaning of life! I think it was about then that I realized where I was.
Imagine that you had the eyes of a fly. That you could see 360 degrees around yourself. You could see the whole sphere of where you were. Now imagine being able to see the whole expanse of the universe like that. I laughed to myself. I laughed because the joke was so funny. The meaning of life was the joke. We are the punch line.
I said to myself, “I've been asking the wrong question this entire
time! The question isn't what is the meaning of life. The question is who am I?” I thought for a second. I took in everything I was in. The stars and nebula and I said to myself, “Well I'm Dan Sullivan.” But then I realized I wasn't. My parents named me that. But that isn't my name. That may have been my human form, but I have no human form now and no name unless I give myself a name. I am and will always be free. Then I didn't even have to tell myself I was free. I knew I was free. And I knew I didn't even need to have a name, so I just had to tell myself, “I am.”
`It was a call out into the night. It was a call out into the darkness that surrounded me. It was a pledge not to anyone else but myself to say that “I exist!” I realized that no one could ever take that away from me. As small as I might think I am. I am. I am the ripple that makes the tidal waves. I am the grain of sand that will demolish the pyramids. I am spark that will burn Rome. I am the butterfly that creates the hurricane. And once I realized that I got bored.
Don't get me wrong it's really awesome out there, but being a God is pretty boring. It's as if you were watching the same movie, every day non-stop forever. So in hindsight, I did something that I wish I didn't. Because yes this life is all a game we play with ourselves. We get so invested in it we think it's real. And in my case I got so invested in it that I wanted to figure out how it ends. I completely realized that I could have chosen any other path at another point. I could have been a king or a pauper or a genius or whatever, but I said, “If I do that then I'll have forgotten everything I ever learned because I wouldn't remember experiencing this.” So I decided to come back as myself.
And everything went dark. And a single point exploded. And then I had to live every single point up until I got back into my body. Now you're all saying this is insane. And I agree with you. But let me say this, if you've ever spend a life time as a lone pet guinea pig, it's pretty miserable. Don't ever have just one guinea pig. They need a companion, or at least pay attention to them, and give them something more to eat then just pellets. That being said, I don't remember what it was like to be a beta fish and I can only imagine how frustrated he must be.
So according to my friends, they thought I was possessed because I started speaking nothing but equations. I wish I could remember what they were. I wish they had their iphones on but at the moment they were too freaked out to take video. So I came too finally and my nose was bleeding. I also had blown out every capillary in my forehead. For the next couple days I had this muddled look on my forehead that looked like a sunburst.
Now you can choose to not believe anything I wrote. That's fine. Unless I experienced it myself I wouldn't either. I was a hard core atheist before I had this experience. I still have trouble sometimes believing it. But it gives me hope and focus. I do find it odd though that “I am” works itself into many different religious texts, and it always seems to be the name of God.
After my experience, I started to look for things that made sense. Honestly I was out of my wits and thought I was going insane. But I found these two videos that put it into perspective for me.
www.youtube.com...
www.youtube.com...
And if you're wondering, yes, I am the illusion. You are the reality. Be the change you want to see in the world.

Sully,

interesting story, although you should know to be careful here on the forum with references to drug use

There is another drug whose name I don't want to mention which is said to induce experiences very similar to NDE and separation of our bodies/true self, up to what they call the "complete destruction of the ego".

I am mentioning this because this drug, this chemical, which is allegedly released in the brain when we're about to die is often given as one reason to "explain" experiences such as NDE - and I have to admit that this explanation is the only halfway *reasonable* amongst the many other "scientific" explanations for such experiences which IMHO are all entirely off. (Like the utterly ridiculous explanation that NDE experiences would be a result of "brain cell" randomly mis-firing etc., this explanation is ALSO sometimes used as an explanation how dreams are allegedly 'created').

What speaks strongly AGAINST this theory to explain away all those experiences with the creation of this chemical in the brain is regression therapies (such as LBL regression or past life regression) where people have these experiences and memories *without* any drug use and without any closeness to death, simply through hypnosis.

Point being here that in this thread (naturally) might also be some people who doubt all those things and consider themselves skeptical, be it in regards to reincarnation, OOBE experiences or the idea of duality of our bodies and spirit/soul. Understandably. However, I want to point out that ANY potential scientific explanation which exists so far IMHO is weak and has flaws and that the personal accounts of such experiences, their number and especially their similarities as long as with other evidence in regards to the details are far more convincing to me compared to the explanations which exist today that attempt to find a "rational" answer and reject those ideas.

Flexy...I don't know if you have read the extensive series of books from Jane Roberts/Seth before but what you have outlined in your thesis was just about spot on to the Seth books. If you have not read it...you might be pleasantly surprised by how similar the information is to your beliefs.

reply to post by Sully2012


Good account. Submit that Erowid.

reply to post by flexy123


Many different compounds can produce OBEs/NDEs, compounds that have different mechanisms of action. For that reason I suspect that there is a much more simple answer to what and how an OBE might be produced via chemical interactions.

That reason being, that the spirit is able to interact with the body via only certain pathways that are designed to receive input from the spirit, and they all need to be functioning for the spirit and body to communicate. When those pathways are blocked or disrupted, the spirit no longer being able to communicate with the body, finds itself, obviously, disconnected/disintegrated from the body and free then again to roam where it wants to. Essentially a forced OBE is a psuedo-NDE, IMO, since the exact same thing is going to happen when a creature dies; once the interfacing mechanism of the physical has deteriorated enough or is destroyed out right, the spirit is disconnected from the body and a DE begins, the only difference from an NDE being that there is no functional body to integrate back into.

reply to post by ParasuvO

Originally posted by ParasuvO
.. This is a common belief here, and it is sadly very wrong, the entire process has been hijacked, for many various reasons long ago, the thought that everyone "chooses" to come here is certainly not true, some have chosen, many have not, and there are so many different groups who are here for reasons they will never know. If not stopped, the plan will carry on, a much deeper plan that has no ideas about ascension as the good meditationalist does. Beings exist who use the energy created by these people who continuously incarnate, as well as experiment on them, in hopes of finding a way to stay the same as they are, and yet proceed without ever giving up the power they yield. And they are succeeding, on a grand scale, to create a whole new "God", and the souls incarnating with never an escape. The ascended masters do not even approach these topics, none on earth either, for they in fear must try and hope against this, and pretend all is as should be.........last chances are coming up.

Why do none of our after life ‘experts’ seem to feel inclined to answer/concern themselves with this – admittedly disturbing, but important – post ...? Do we talk pretty or generate a real discussion? There is quite some evidence that the process of reincarnation actually HAS been “hijacked” by certain entities and that there is indeed a big deception machine at work regarding the issue.

Yes, SOME are allowed to choose their next incarnation, and, especially, to maintain their conscious memories of previous lives, but is the majority...? Just use observation and logic, and the answer will be clear.

reply to post by flexy123


The first thing you mention, is the real assumption here isn't it? Is the soul truly independent of the body? Or is consciousness and body a whole? A complete and all inclusive package? And just like the physical body, when the package begins to fail, consciousness experiences a similar decline. There is no continuation of an entity that was your consciousness.

If you accept that energy and mater are eternal with no gain or loss, then like the body, which reorganizes into other forms, consciousness may continue on as a kind of energetic form. But hey who knows?

The rest of the stuff makes a nice story but I wouldn't count on much of it.

I guess the bottom line is what works for you?

I liked the OP's opening summation of research on reincarnation and the soul. I agree with most of it and am surprised at how comprehensive it is.

I have practiced Buddhism for 37 years (in this lifetime). One of my major preoccupations has been reincarnation and I have sought answers on the subject from various Tibetan lamas.

In the Buddhist view one's behavior in any given lifetime can be described as a collection of habits. People adopt habitual behavior patterns. Because of these "habits" people often find themselves in harmony with certain other people or out of harmony with certain people. After death it is these "habitual behavior patterns" that determine what parents a destabilized, disembodied being will be able to "harmonize" with and gain rebirth.

In that light, expressions like "He's an animal!!", take on an ominous meaning.

When talking about reincarnation the word "choose", for most examples of people, has to be understood in the context of the process described above. Only in the case of highly accomplished yogis does the normal meaning of the word "choose" find a place in the discussion of reincarnation.

My two cents worth.

reply to post by flexy123


Dear Flexy123,

What is the source of your ideas?

It is not easy to understand the nature of soul that resides in your body. The soul cannot be seen with human eyes as well as with the aid of any scientific instrument. The reason is soul is made of subtle or fine matter which is different from "gross" matter making up the visible Universe. The frequencies of light that interact with gross matter cannot make subtle matter visible.

The soul is pure, alive, and very powerful. The body is non-alive and functions only under the command of the soul. The body stops functioning (dies) after soul leaves the body. This is the eternal truth.

The soul has been around for countless years and has reincarnated in countless lives. The circle of life goes on without any break. When you die, you will take another life very soon, on the 14th day after your death. Your soul stays in space in the interval between lives. There is no afterlife. Your soul has no association with your body, your friends or other souls at all in between death and reincarnation. The results of your deeds (good or bad karmas) are realized only in living bodies. Soul suffers no happiness or pain when outside body.

Please also quote from the authentic sources. I shall provide quotes from Veda as well.

Wishing you a fruitful journey of discovery.

reply to post by ultimafule


Hmm, I see. That makes sense.

What about natural talents, though? I assume that Akiane Kramarik girl must of been an incredible artist in a previous life.