China gazes at the stars while the U.S. falls in the gutter?

While the Chinese beams back school lessons from its space laboratory, the U.S. remain intransigent on the issue of space related coöperation; even though their own space program mothballed and they're having to hitch rides with the Ruskis.

While China plan Moon landings, the U.S. are concerned with hounding Julian Assange and silencing whistle-blowers from exposing their own governments abject corruption and malfeasance.

While China surge ahead in leaps and bounds in supercomputer technology, the U.S. argy-bargy about the hacking / theft of intellectual property and military secrets; despite the fact that they themselves are the biggest culprits of this accepted mos maiorum of international espionage...

Is U.S. focus becoming more narrow-minded and pre-WWII isolationalist again? Why do they fear everything and refuse to engage with so few? Are they precipitating a 'cold war' with the Chinese? Why not use space exploration as common ground for forging a better understanding between the nations and thereby going some way to raising of the 'silk curtain' between the East and West?

reply to post by FromMyColdDeadBrain


leaps and bounds with supercomputers??? Um the US already has proven its uses in Quantum Computing.
Space? sure we have mothballed our own space program, but with the rise of US based private space exploration, we hardly need a ride with the Russians anymore, in fact, the US AF has already secured contracts with private space firms to get their gear up in space.
This will all amount to something in the near future. China isn't anything to worry about, chill out on the fear mongering.

Before we can even tackle what lies outside of out atmosphere we need to focus on the planet as a whole.
We need to unify and stop destroying the planet and each other. I wouldn't want to be the one to send people to another planet for them to destroy.

I wish that we could all get along and unite into some master race of creators, then go and re seed life across the cosmos. I cant be the only one.

If you haven't seen this interview....You may find it interesting...I did anyway.

Source

It's an interview by Neil Cavuto with Former Apollo Astronaut Gene Cernan who talks about ‘We Are Becoming a Second-Rate Nation’

reply to post by FromMyColdDeadBrain


The height of US greatness in history literally peaked with the moon landings. I think what happened then is the US ego, politicians and citizens included become very egocentric and that was like gravity which has brought the US greatness back to mediocre, and its continuing to fall.

Really if that hadnt happened the US by now would have the rotating space station from 2001, the moon base on the moon, and wed all be watching now in anticipation the first astronauts mission launched from the moon to mars.

I should add also if the US wants to fix up the worlds problems then nothing works better than leading for example. If they had accomplished the above the middle east would gets it own backyard in order itself so as to be able to be a part of the bigger future, which is out there in space exploration and colonisation.

We (USA)...we have done the moon...we've done low orbital space. It is time we "save up" for something special.

Remember when you were a youth and you got your first job? First you bought "cool" cloths or maybe a car; however, as you got older your goals were higher. Now you want to buy a house. If you were smart, then you waited until you had saved enough money to make buying a house affordable, right?

Well, that is what the USA is currently doing; saving money for loftier ventures. Screw China and their low orbit goals; we have "bigger fish to fry".

What I don't get....I've always learned that if u don't want a secret out.....don't put it on the Internet.

China couldn't hack our important secrets if it wasn't hackable!!!!

Don't want them to know....don't put it out there!

Isn't it that simple? lol

Talk to me when they land a car on mars and drive it around beaming back hi resolution pics for everyone to see..

Maybe I'll be impressed

reply to post by LeatherNLace


Don't you have to pay off your student loans and debt first though?
www.theaustralian.com.au...

From what Snowden says about us spying on China...Why do we need to do the work when we can just spy on them and save the dough on having to do it ourselves...

Originally posted by peashooter
reply to post by LeatherNLace

 

Don't you have to pay off your student loans and debt first though?
www.theaustralian.com.au...

edit on 14-6-2013 by peashooter because: (no reason given)

Yes (if one has a student loan), but they get the minimum. At the pace I am headed towards, they will get the full sum of my loan returned in about 2080; well after my death. Of course, they will have been paid 7+ times more than they ever loaned; nonetheless, I will pay them at the minimum monthly payment FOREVER.

Originally posted by relocator

It's an interview by Neil Cavuto with Former Apollo Astronaut Gene Cernan who talks about ‘We Are Becoming a Second-Rate Nation’

lol becoming... i think it already happened long ago .

reply to post by freedomSlave


Right... I can see it.

Though the interview really surprised me...hearing the dissappoint, anger and emotion he had about what he was seeing now compared to 40 years ago when he last walked on the moon.

Originally posted by LeatherNLace
We (USA)...we have done the moon...we've done low orbital space. It is time we "save up" for something special.

Remember when you were a youth and you got your first job? First you bought "cool" cloths or maybe a car; however, as you got older your goals were higher. Now you want to buy a house. If you were smart, then you waited until you had saved enough money to make buying a house affordable, right?

Well, that is what the USA is currently doing; saving money for loftier ventures. Screw China and their low orbit goals; we have "bigger fish to fry".

umm the usa cant even afford to pay their bills how are they saving when the debt gets bigger every year ?
keep telling yourself tha still doesn't make it true .

good for china they are they are putting up their space station.. progressing very far in the space exploration

Originally posted by freedomSlave

Originally posted by LeatherNLace
We (USA)...we have done the moon...we've done low orbital space. It is time we "save up" for something special.

Remember when you were a youth and you got your first job? First you bought "cool" cloths or maybe a car; however, as you got older your goals were higher. Now you want to buy a house. If you were smart, then you waited until you had saved enough money to make buying a house affordable, right?

Well, that is what the USA is currently doing; saving money for loftier ventures. Screw China and their low orbit goals; we have "bigger fish to fry".

umm the usa cant even afford to pay their bills how are they saving when the debt gets bigger every year ?

Umm, the first step in paying off your debt is to quit spending, right? It seems to me that the first step has been achieved. Besides, very little of the US debt is owed to another country; rather, the government owes the vast majority of the the debt to it's citizens (approximately 72% of those citizens are deceased) and the FED . All they have to do is say "screw you, come and get it" and that debt will disappear. Who is going to challenge that, you? Have at it.

Meanwhile, so as to avoid derailing this thread, I digress. However, feel free to create a new thread and invite me to debate you on the subject.

Originally posted by goou111
Talk to me when they land a car on mars and drive it around beaming back hi resolution pics for everyone to see..

Maybe I'll be impressed

I swear I heard Stewie's voice when I read that...

To the thread:


I wouldn't worry about China, well at least for 10 more years or so, but I can't argue that the path the US of A is on is very disheartening.

I wouldn't in the least mind to see us pull back the war machine, and spend that money on tech, and one day say (in your face China! You should have learned from Russia not to challenge our space program! ) But I don't see that happening ever again not in our lives anyways.

reply to post by Arnie123


I'm not quite sure how I'd see it as fear mongering. NASA's entire combined budget is under $20 Billion and getting hacked a bit more each year. Private companies can play truck driver to deliver satellites but I'm not aware of any that are actually ...in a real doing it sense.... moving with a near term eye beyond Earth orbit and perhaps out to mars. Manned missions. Not flying R2D2's with lower technology.

That does concern me. As it stands, the US is doing enough to maintain a point of stability for ongoing programs, IMO, but little more in leap frogging beyond. I find it interesting and a bit disturbing at how radically underestimated China is by so many people.

China has literally 4x's our population.Their 'migrant' working population alone, between fields and cities was around 300 million when China Inc. was written in 2006. (Where I read the figure). That's just under our entire national population in the US. They've come in 10-15 years what it took the industrialized world about 50 years to accomplish for progress in economy, industrialization and infrastructure. They're a little powerhouse.

Little to no debt on the National/State level (They have a whopper coming in the private side of their private / government partnerships for credit and debt but not the Government like we do.) They can pay off their own debt with plenty of surplus left to the cash reserves they currently sit on. (I think wistfully of a time the US still could have someday held reserves like that...trillions of dollars and a couple Presidents ago.).

I don't mind if they do take the lead and get it done either. All the better. I don't really think of us as nationalities beyond Earth Orbit. It's not Chinese or Americans. It's Terrans....and a concept I think the public ought to warm up to. Just my two cents. Nations matter a ton down here, but it's all one big human species up there, IMO.

Originally posted by tracehd1
What I don't get....I've always learned that if u don't want a secret out.....don't put it on the Internet.

China couldn't hack our important secrets if it wasn't hackable!!!!

Don't want them to know....don't put it out there!

Isn't it that simple? lol

Not really because we use computer technology for everything and invariably the computers will be connected to the 'net sometime. One of the major advantages of computing is speed. The speed of transferring data to and fro across the Internet falls into this category.

Moreover, not all cyber espionage is accomplished remotely- the Stuxnet virus was said to be implanted physically, via a USB flash drive.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000I'm not aware of any that are actually ...in a real doing it sense.... moving with a near term eye beyond Earth orbit and perhaps out to mars. Manned missions. Not flying R2D2's with lower technology.

The Mars One project may qualify...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Well said wrabbit great post that has been my thinking as well ( usually I get flamed over it ) especially that last paragraph.

I don't think we know half of what china is capable of with the leap and bounds they have been making over recent decades , they are only getting smarter . The amount of man power for RnD really is something to over i think little power house is a sever understatement . they are out preforming the western worlds economically and technologically they really are not that far behind if not up to par now.

sadly canada has been slashing funding to what little program we have as well. the one project that seems to be bringing countries together building space stations planned trip to mars a group effort of many countries funds just keep getting slashed . All the while western governments have spent probably more money on spying on it's citizens than to progress us as a whole of a planet with a community effort . sad .

Depending on our government to lead us into space at this point is not going to happen, at least not like it was back in the 60s.

It costs a lot of money to send things into space, be it a satellite, supplies, people, or a deep space probe. Our government has to spend that money to do that, and while I and others think that this is a much more worth while thing to be spending our taxes on, there will be many voters out there that think otherwise (never mind the fact that by placing things outside our atmosphere has both taught us many things about our planet, but also helps us in our day to day lives. Think about that the next time you use your cell phone, the internet, or need to know what the weather is going to be like).

On the other hand, private companies only have to answer to their share holders. Not politicians and voters.
If companies start to see profit in getting out into space (and over the past couple of years we are seeing this interests), then we're going to see this, and I do mean more indepth than just resupplying the ISS.

A lot of science fiction authors decades ago had written novels in which humans expansion into space was more industrial driven than by any sense of government expansion or national pride. In a lot of ways it makes sense that it would happen this way. Our world is based upon us humans building things that are sold for profit. Supply and Demand.

While a lot of people hate corporations out there, they will most likely be the ones that take us out and beyond our planet on a more permanent basis. They are the ones with the money after all. And they do not have to answer to the tax payer, only their share holders. And if their share holders are making money because the company they hold shares in is able to mine the moon, it will happen.

So personally I wouldn't wait on our government to get manned missions back out into space. Too many tax payers will scream that it's a waste of money, and that the money the government spends should be spent here on Earth (never mind that by going out there has help us tremendously in so many ways).

Instead, watch for NASA/JPL's budget to be slashed again, and again, and again. And watch those corporations take to space.

Unless of course we get a nice fat meteor to slam into the Earth. THEN you'd have all those tax paying voters suddenly screaming their heads off about how we need to be up there to stop things like that.