Data on chemical arms use by Syria's Assad fabricated: Russian MP

Well, some of us had wondered how Russia was going to take this. I guess we now know. They aren't buying what the White House is selling. I wasn't terribly surprised, but seeing it confirmed is still an attention grabber.

MOSCOW (Reuters) - A senior pro-Kremlin Russian lawmaker said on Friday that information on the use of chemical weapons by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces was fabricated and suggested the United States would use it to justify intervention in the conflict.

It's going a bit to call another major world power a liar and fabricator in outright terms. I haven't heard anything quite like that in a very long time. Not at this level of world powers.

"Information about the use by Assad of chemical weapons has been fabricated in the same place as the lies about (Saddam) Hussein's weapons of mass destruction," Alexei Pushkov, head of the foreign policy committee in the lower chamber of the Russian parliament, said on Twitter. "Obama is taking the same path as George Bush."

Source

How much say or representation to Russian policy does a guy like this carry? Is it as generally worthless as a US Senator or Congressman making a statement of opinion or is their system tighter about officials in the federal posts not speaking completely outside official positions? The difference would seem pretty important on this one.

Here is a quick refresh of where Russia was on this in the start.

Also Russia´s Ambassador to the United Nations, Vitaly Churkin called for a thorough, neutral and full investigation. The Russian UN Ambassador and current President of the UN Security Council, reiterated, that Russia is calling for a neutral, thorough and objective investigation into the terrorists use of chemical weapons in Syria. The website of the Russian news channel RT quoted the Russian UN Ambassadors statement after closed consultations at the UN security Council on Wednesday, when Gatilov said, “We ask the Syrian government to investigate the incident and we have experts from several countries, including Russia… I think that the UN Secretary General will form a team, including highly experienced members, and we expect that this investigation will be neutral and objective… This issue will be considered carefully”.

Source

It's a lengthy article on that last one and from back in march...as a reminder to how far back this goes for how long it's apparently taken to get conclusive 'proof', such that it's been announced. It sounds like not everyone is taking the US at it's word just now. Golly.. I can't imagine why..... (looks at story headlines of US Intelligence basically rampaging around the world for years). Why wouldn't they trust us?

If Assad was using these chemical weapons you would not need months of investigation to determine the facts. There would be fields of bodies, whole towns wiped out, cities emptied!

But instead we get positive results from some swaps and lab work. Garbage! Absolute rubbish!

They better hope Assad does not use them. After all, if you make the accusation stick he may just turn around and let them loose.

If all you have is the results of some swabs here and there you are likely looking at a small vial of the stuff in the wrong hands. Where I wonder would the rebels get hold of a small sample.

P

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Greetings.

Twitter is used for official government statements now is it?

I'm surprised that it wasn't started with "a report being circulated around the Kremlin today..."

Has this guy even seen the supposed evidence?

I think I'll wait for an official press release.

Maybe the Russian defence minister will post something on Facebook about it.

reply to post by AlphaHawk


Actually.. You'd be surprised on that. One of my previous web projects included dozens of data feeds from everything ranging from the USDA to the State Dept to State Government Offices. All twitter feeds and all official out of their offices as news and announcement feeds. I used to think of twitter that way too.....but it's become a real vehicle of choice for 'less than article' length announcements and information from all directions. Another site I run now has several twitter feeds from the world quake and natural event services like the USGS and European agency which serves the same purpose...

So, indeed. Twitter is full of a lot of junk but it's also carrying the main info feeds out of official sources world wide. It varies greatly these days.

reply to post by pheonix358


My real fear is that out of a desperation to be taken seriously for the claims the little homemade chem weapons may fail to establish, the rebels may up the ante by using something much larger they cook up, thinking that will do the trick to convince everyone that they're the side being attacked.

Russia would go ballistic (maybe literally...depending on whether Russian citizens living across Syria right now were killed in it) but that may not stop the rebels from trying. The ones caught in Turkey with chem weapons were pretty crazy too but apparently had intended to use them inside that country.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Surely though, along with twitter releases, there would be official statements with them, right?

Social media would just help get the word out and direct to the statement or press release.

reply to post by AlphaHawk


I'm doing a host of other things this morning and hadn't gotten back around to this. I'm sorry if the twitter feed wasn't what you'd consider decent, but I did come up with statements from the Russian Government directly which published within the last hour. They weren't quite as rude as the MP here ...and so it does sound like their parliament people are similar to our Congress for speaking without much care or concern for decorum or tact. The message is the same though. They aren't buying what Obama is selling ..and added a little something with it that only Putin's office could.

Russia says data provided by the United States on Syrian president Bashar al-Assad's alleged use of chemical weapons, including sarin nerve gas, was "unconvincing" and warned that direct military aid to rebels would hurt peace efforts.

On Friday president Vladimir Putin's top foreign policy adviser said US officials had recently presented Russia with new information about Assad's alleged chemical weapons use.

I believe Obama had been counting on that peace conference in the belief that he could work some real long term agreements with Russia on mutual weapons controls and perhaps even reductions. Errr.. Oops... While not discounted, it's sounding like the more Obama dumps guns and ordinance into the hands of the FSA, the less likely any success with Russia on that is going to be.

Naturally, Syria's state news service is far less diplomatic about things...but then, they would be as the nation on the real hard end of this whole thing.

Syria on Friday rejected Washington's claims that it had used chemical weapons in its fight against rebels.

"The White House published a statement full of lies about the use of chemical weapons in Syria, based on fabricated information, through which it is trying to hold the Syrian government responsible for such use," state news agency SANA quoted a foreign ministry official as saying.

Source

I don't know if Obama was expecting widespread acceptance and belief in what his people offered up ..but if so? It does appear that was a fail all around for Syria and Russia. No big surprise on Damascus, but again, Moscow is a complication on entirely different things if Putin starts linkage between them. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to refrain from helping to expand this war after all? We'll see what happens.

* I tend to agree with Pheonix, myself. Obama and the rest are lying through their teeth to say Assad used them and the best proof is the fact the world didn't see many square blocks of a city, if not a whole city, become a dead zone with one strike. The FSA are playing with home made garbage that survivors recover from and maybe a few die with, Assad's 30 years of producing full quality and high level chemical warheads means the world will have NO doubt if he uses them. Satellite photos will probably be sufficient to see the bodies in the aftermath for how many there will likely be. Just like Iraq with the Kurds. Nation state use of slime isn't easily missed or mistaken, IMO.

didnt obama say something about ending the war on terror? i guess he is now moving on to war with other countries. and if i remember right, wasnt there alligations about the opposition, not the syrian govt using gas?

how can anybody still believe anything coming from the u.s. govt? well i guess only americans do..the rest of the world isnt falling for it....

I can not stop thinking about the hypocrisy of the American war machine, people forget that US is accusing the Syrian government of using weapons of "mass destruction" like chemical weapons but most people forgot about "Fallujah" well that is just peachy. I guess using "weapons" of mass destruction is at the discretion of the US.

reply to post by clearmind


I have NO idea how this is all flying in any way. The FSA hasn't just been accused of using chemical weapons...they are the ones that gassed rabbits with them on video and then released said video, themselves, as if it was a great thing to brag about. They openly showed they were working to refine low level chemical weapons. Then... (gasp) what happens not long after? Low level chemical weapons hit civilians in a city they've been operating in since the earliest days.

lets see...Who should we look to? Assad...who has VX Gas for Gods Sake...or the Rebels who already starred in their own home movie using what looked a whole lot like ...(drum roll)...SARIN.

I mean, using Sarin when you have VX warheads as Assad does is like choosing to use a BB gun when you have a loaded M-60 machine gun sitting there too. This stuff doesn't even pass the laugh test. THEN we get into rebels in Turkey being busted with them and intending to gas Turkish towns for who knows what precise goal.....AND AQ in Iraq (Those who are directly allied with part of the FSA) being busted in Baghdad about the same time, making Sarin and testing remote control aircraft (Hobby type level) to deliver it over people.

Hmmm... I don't know about you, but I would have thought even the FBI would call all that a clue. lol.... It's the Rebels! Doh!

This was from a senior lawmaker within the Kremlin. No different than the outlandish opions of say a Ron Paul or a John McCain within our own gov't.

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
Well, some of us had wondered how Russia was going to take this. I guess we now know. They aren't buying what the White House is selling. I wasn't terribly surprised, but seeing it confirmed is still an attention grabber.

MOSCOW (Reuters) - A senior pro-Kremlin Russian lawmaker said on Friday that information on the use of chemical weapons by Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's forces was fabricated and suggested the United States would use it to justify intervention in the conflict.

It's going a bit to call another major world power a liar and fabricator in outright terms. I haven't heard anything quite like that in a very long time. Not at this level of world powers.

"Information about the use by Assad of chemical weapons has been fabricated in the same place as the lies about (Saddam) Hussein's weapons of mass destruction," Alexei Pushkov, head of the foreign policy committee in the lower chamber of the Russian parliament, said on Twitter. "Obama is taking the same path as George Bush."

Source

How much say or representation to Russian policy does a guy like this carry? Is it as generally worthless as a US Senator or Congressman making a statement of opinion or is their system tighter about officials in the federal posts not speaking completely outside official positions? The difference would seem pretty important on this one.

Here is a quick refresh of where Russia was on this in the start.

Also Russia´s Ambassador to the United Nations, Vitaly Churkin called for a thorough, neutral and full investigation. The Russian UN Ambassador and current President of the UN Security Council, reiterated, that Russia is calling for a neutral, thorough and objective investigation into the terrorists use of chemical weapons in Syria. The website of the Russian news channel RT quoted the Russian UN Ambassadors statement after closed consultations at the UN security Council on Wednesday, when Gatilov said, “We ask the Syrian government to investigate the incident and we have experts from several countries, including Russia… I think that the UN Secretary General will form a team, including highly experienced members, and we expect that this investigation will be neutral and objective… This issue will be considered carefully”.

Source

It's a lengthy article on that last one and from back in march...as a reminder to how far back this goes for how long it's apparently taken to get conclusive 'proof', such that it's been announced. It sounds like not everyone is taking the US at it's word just now. Golly.. I can't imagine why..... (looks at story headlines of US Intelligence basically rampaging around the world for years). Why wouldn't they trust us?

Least im not the only one who thinks this stinks.

Why would assad use low quality sarin on a hanfull of people when conventional weapons are cheaper and safer?

If was going to use them it would be in a major campaign were there use would be decisive.

I just cant shake the feeling that we are the bad guys in all of this. And when I say we I don't mean me or you. I mean there is a certain faceless faction that's leading us to bad places, leading us to do bad things. For whatever reasons they may have, be it control of resources, differences in ideologies, or they're just bad people. They're leading us to places, that if we knew the whole story, the whole reasoning, they're places and things we wouldn't want to go to or do.When you step back and look at everything. You look at all of the lying, all of the corruption, all of the two faced attitudes, all of the plays for mass control, and you walk away feeling manipulated. You walk away feeling responsible for these terrible things happening to people on the other side of the globe who are just like me or you. They just want to lead their lives in a peaceful manner.America was founded on the idea of finding a better way to do things. We are supposed to be that light in a very dark world, but yet here we are. Once again giving aid to people who are affiliated with Al-Qaeda. What is that? How can you be that person that claims we are fighting them in one part of the globe and giving them aid in another? How do you get to that point?We all know that Russia and China are oppressive in their own right, and I couldn't claim otherwise. But that's what I find so disturbing. It isn't China and Russia who's directly involved in conflict after conflict. Yes, Russia could be sending aid to Assad, but who's more likely to interject their own personal troops into the conflict? Who's more of a threat of escalating this into a global conflict? Who's the one showing very little concern about where this could lead all of us?Are the people leading us trying to resolve conflict or increase it?

Now I don't know who to believe here. Russia who I don't trust as far as I can throw them or a friend of mine from Syria who left the country after her husband and son were gunned down by Assad's troops and they started releasing small quantities of Sarin in her town. I'm rather inclined to believe her since she had no dog in the fight and isn't for or against either side, well she wasn't prior to the murder of her husband and son, now she's definitely no fan of Assad and his army of goons. It's all a big fustercluck and I don't think we can really know what's true without being there ourselves.

Its too easy to determine a chemical attack. All we have to do is send some people over there and determine it for ourselves. We are aligned with FSA right? I'm sure they have ways of getting into parts of Syria and finding the evidence for themselves. depending on the chemical they used, a NON-Persistent agent will be a little harder to detect besides the composition of the bodies, but a Persistent agent will tell us right away.
how I know this? heh, its in my job to know.

So I see that it doesn't matter who is going to take over the Syrian nation as long as the anti US government is taken down.

Yeah, having the Muslim brotherhood taking over the country and imposing their own Islamic version of law is ok for some because is better than what they have now.

I guess many forget that the rebels in that nation are not what people believe.

Muslim Brotherhood establishes militia inside Syria

The Muslim Brotherhood has established its own militia inside Syria as the country's rebels fracture between radical Islamists and their rivals, commanders and gun-runners have told The Daily Telegraph.

Hossam Abu Habel, whose late father was in Syria's Muslim Brotherhood in the 1950s, said that he raised $40-50,000 (£25,000-£32,000) a month to supply Islamist militias in Homs province with weapons and other aid.

The militias he funded were not affiliated to the Free Syrian Army (FSA), the main rebel movement, added Mr Abu Habel.

"Our mission is to build a civil country but with an Islamic base," he said. "We are trying to raise awareness for Islam and for jihad."

www.telegraph.co.uk...

That is the Syria US wants and is supporting now and I guess people in Syria wants that too.

Syria,like most of the Mideast is a murky mess of snakes.Assad/Hezbollah vs.an alquida run rebellion who is supposedly on our side.I say we withdraw from this mess before we get dragged in deeper than we already are.Let the Russians have it.

reply to post by TDawg61


Obama is not going to give the back to the already pledge of millions of tax dollars to the Muslim brotherhood, in Syria his friends in arms neither the help that he just pledge, I guess imposing a radical Islam regime with Jihad in mind is ok with Mr. Obama.

I guess we don't remember when we gave Saddam Hussein chemical weapons to use on Iran . We are pretty sure that Saddam gave the remainder of the Sarin Gas to Syria . The Sarin gas they used could be from Americas stock piles . Ugly but true .

reply to post by SimonPeter


Interesting, right? then you wonder from where the true evil comes from.