The wisdom in the Criteas

I have read extracts from Plato’s The Criteas in the past but perhaps I was daydreaming but for some reason it never impacted on me as much as just now, the information given in this text is amazing!!



O Solon, you Greeks are all young in your minds which hold no store of old belief on along tradition, no knowledge hoary with age. The reason is this. There have been, and will be hereafter, many and divers destructions of mankind, the greatest by fire and water, though other lessor ones are due to countless other causes.

Ok so we are told that the reason why the ancient Greeks don't have any really ancient knowledge is because they lost it all in a great cataclysm.

At this point I would like to reinforce that by what Diodorus Siculus says on this matter:

Diodorus recounts that Athena built Sais before the deluge that supposedly destroyed Athens and Atlantis. While all Greek cities were destroyed during that cataclysm, the Egyptian cities including Sais survived.

en.wikipedia.org...

So here we are told that Atlantis and Athens was destroyed by a cataclysm buy Egypt was not harmed which would explain why they have to get the story from an Egyptian priest.

Thus the story current also in your part of the world, that Phaethon, child of the Sun, once harnessed his father chariot but could not guide it into his fathers course and so burnt up everything on the face of the earth and was himself consumed by a thunderbolt – this legend has the air of a fable; but the truth behind it is a deviation of the bodies that revolve in heaven around the earth and a distruction, occurring at long intervals of things on earth by a great conflagration

Here we are told exactly what caused the destruction "a child of the Sun" ie a small sun or a chariot of fire going off course and resulting in floods and a great conflagration.


Any great or noble achievement or otherwise exceptional event that has come to pass, either in your parts or here or in any place of which we have tidings, has been written down for ages past in records that are preserved in our temples; whereas with you and other people again and again, life has only just been enriched with letters and all other necessities of civilization when once more, after the usual period of years, the torrents from heaven swept down like a pestilence, leaving only the rude and unlettered among you. And so you start again like children, knowing nothing of what existed in ancient times here or in your own country

As expected the masses are concerned with trivial things and when a cataclysm occurs they struggle with the basics as they previously relied on others knowledge and skills. Imagine what would happen today, what are the majority of people interested in and of what value would there knowledge be in rebuilding a destroyed world?

To begin with, your people remember one deluge, though their were many earlier;

The Greeks knew of only one deluge, are we talking about the deluge that destroyed Atlantis or another deluge? If the Greeks already knew about Atlantis then there would be no need to get this story from an Egyptian priest.

moreover you do not know that the noblest and bravest race in the world once lived in your country. From a small remnant of their seed you and all your citizens are derived; but you know nothing of it because the survivors for many generations died leaving no word in writing



A noble race he must be talking about the Titans (giants) Olympians here, Ancient Greek royalty often traced their bloodline back to a demigod, this is what it really means to have "royal blood".

According to Plato this destruction last happened 12 000 years ago.

This story also informs us that the keepers of wisdom and mankind's forgotten history are the adepts, the secret society's

At the time of this cataclysm the Atlantis (home of the Titans) were at war with Greece (home of the Olympians), Both titans and Olympians are of the same race so we are talking about two colonies of essentially atlanteans at war with each other due to political reasons.

In vedic literature the triple ringed city of Atlantis is called Tripura the triple city which Shiva destroyed with a flaming projectile which burns the city up and sends it beneath the waves.

The legacy of Atlantis is therefore to be found both archaeologically and genetically according to these writings.

reply to post by LUXUS


What genetics and what archaeology?

T & C is probably just a story, there is no evidence for a deluge (biblical) nor Atlantis and are you sure you want to use Tripura? They don't have much in common with Plato's story about Atlantis. The myth of Tripura has one being made of iron, one of silver and one of gold and they were located on earth in the sky and in heaven

Yes, the volcanic destruction of Thera points to an Atlantis story.
Thera was supposed to be populated by the ruling elite. Astrologers, priests, agricultural and strategy experts, scientists of the time, linguists would could read Egyptian, initiated into the highest Egyptian mysteries, numerology, astronomy, the beginning of chemistry.
From that point on the remainder of the elite were scattered and formed separate groups, later fighting.

reply to post by LUXUS


actually the greeks knew of 3 floods

Greek mythology describes three floods, the flood of Ogyges, the flood of Deucalion, and the flood of Dardanus. Two of the Greek Ages of Man concluded with a flood: The Ogygian Deluge ended the Silver Age, and the flood of Deucalion ended the First Bronze Age (Heroic age). In addition to these floods, Greek mythology says the world was also periodically destroyed by fire. See Phaëton.

The Ogygian flood is so called because it occurred in the time of Ogyges,[2] a mythical king of Attica. The name "Ogyges" and "Ogygian" is synonymous with "primeval", "primal" and "earliest dawn". Others say he was the founder and king of Thebes. In many traditions the Ogygian flood is said to have covered the whole world and was so devastating that Attica remained without kings until the reign of Cecrops.[3]
Plato in his Laws, Book III,[4] argues that this flood had occurred ten thousand years[5] before his time, as opposed to only "one or two thousand years that have elapsed" since the discovery of music, and other inventions. Also in Timaeus (22) and in Critias (111-112) he describes the "great deluge of all" as having been preceded by 9,000 years of history before the time of his contemporary Solon, during the 10th millennium BCE. In addition, the texts report that "many great deluges have taken place during the nine thousand years" since Athens and Atlantis were preeminent.[6]

According to Dionysius of Halicarnassus, Dardanus left Pheneus in Arcadia to colonize a land in the North-East Aegean Sea. When the Dardanus' deluge occurred, the land was flooded and the mountain where he and his family survived formed the island of Samothrace. He left Samothrace on an inflated skin to the opposite shores of Asia Minor and settled on Mount Ida. Due to the fear of another flood, they refrained from building a city and lived in the open for fifty years. His grandson Tros eventually moved from the highlands down to a large plain, on a hill that had many rivers flowing down from Ida above. There he built a city, which was named Troy after him.[10]

reply to post by TheMagus


It's always a good idea to include a link to your source

One correction to your statement, the Greeks wrote about three mythical floods, the Ogyges was dated by writers to 1800 BP, 2135 BP and 9500 BP. It might be a faint rememberance of the local flooding that occurred after the warming period began to accelerate. Deucalion was dated around 1500 BP, and the Dardanus also around 10500 PB. Needless to say these myths are probable of local floods or retelling of tails from Asia Minor as they have some elements of similarity with Gilamesh and Biblical stories.

Originally posted by Hanslune
reply to post by LUXUS

 

What genetics and what archaeology?

T & C is probably just a story, there is no evidence for a deluge (biblical) nor Atlantis and are you sure you want to use Tripura? They don't have much in common with Plato's story about Atlantis. The myth of Tripura has one being made of iron, one of silver and one of gold and they were located on earth in the sky and in heaven

I am talking about archeology and genetic discovery to be made in the future. Firstly Atlantis is to be found under water so guess what ,its no surprise we have not found it yet.

There is evidence of flooding, there is the rise of 500 feet that occurred 12000 years ago, plus in the thread
Lost Tribes of the Green Sahara it is stated that the earth wobbled 12000 years ago and this caused changes in the weather.

As for links between tripura there is one link which is very interesting actually. In the story of tripura we are told that a group of asuras called Danavas lived in Tripura and when it was destroyed very few escaped. Maya Danava escaped and went to India. If we examine Irish mythology we read about the Tuatha Dé Danann who escape there sinking island Tir na nOg. The link is this in India Danava means tribe of Danu and in Irish Tuatha Dé Danann means the people of Danu.

reply to post by Hanslune


Hi Hans,
You will find the works of Marie-Agnes Courty,
cosmictusk.com...

It's is real archeaology, she has been working on the site for some thirty years and has solid eveidence of cosmic impacts at the beginning of the bronze age collapse.
Unfortunately the scribid source won't allow cutting or I'd post it but chech the link

Originally posted by LUXUS


I am talking about archeology and genetic discovery to be made in the future. Firstly Atlantis is to be found under water so guess what ,its no surprise we have not found it yet.

How do you know that?

There is evidence of flooding, there is the rise of 500 feet that occurred 12000 years ago, plus in the thread

Yes there is evidence for the sea rising that doesn't act as evidence for Atlantis, what does Plato say in his story is the cause of the Atlantis? Was it the sea level rising?

As for links between tripura there is one link which is very interesting actually. In the story of tripura we are told that a group of asuras called Danavas lived in Tripura and when it was destroyed very few escaped. Maya Danava escaped and went to India. If we examine Irish mythology we read about the Tuatha Dé Danann who escape there sinking island Tir na nOg. The link is this in India Danava means tribe of Danu and in Irish Tuatha Dé Danann means the people of Danu.

As I understand it Asuras were not human and Danu was the mother of the Irish gods and the goddess of death.

Are you saying you think the Irish have a non-human origin? lol

Danu is also a water goddess in the proto Indo-European religion - and is the ancient Scythian word meaning "river".

Originally posted by punkinworks10
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Hi Hans,
You will find the works of Marie-Agnes Courty,
cosmictusk.com...

It's is real archeaology, she has been working on the site for some thirty years and has solid eveidence of cosmic impacts at the beginning of the bronze age collapse.

You misunderstood my comment yes there have been floods and impacts, the fact that there have been impacts and floods isn't evidence for Atlantis. For the specific incident above Plato (by chance) placed Atlantis outside the bronze age.

reply to post by Hanslune


Well the way I see it is that if the Earth wobbled on its axis and this caused weather patterns to change (ie sea levels to rise) something was responsible for causing that wobble, meteorite impact perhaps? I cant imagine the earth just wobbling suddenly without an external force.

According to ancient gnostic teachings there are two genetic lines on this planet, the bloodline of Cain and the bloodline of Seth, actually this is true not only of the gnostic but others such as the masons and Jewish kabbalists who inherited this knowledge from older sources. Essentially Eve was the mother of Seth and Cain but Adam was only the father of Seth, whilst one of the Elohim was the father of Cain ie Cain was the first demigod (Titan).

As for the tuatha de danann: www.vedanet.com...

reply to post by Hanslune


I agree that Atlantis is an allegorical tale, but it is based on the fall of the Minoan trade empire , and the loss of their capital on Thera. The minoans controlled the trade of tin and other metals from the eastern med all the way to the British isles, with strongholds at mining communities in Iberia.
A lot of what has been miss characterized as Mycenean is really Minoan as the early Mycenean city states were Minoan client states.
Anyone who reads Criteas literally is making a big mistake and missing the real history contained within it.

reply to post by LUXUS


Hi luxus,

The events of which you mention did intact happen, but the change in climate has nothing to do with wobble. It was from the huge amounts of dust and smoke kicked up by multiple impacts and airbursts throught Mesopotamia, the Persian gulf and Indian ocean.
The crater a Uum al binni, Iraq, is responsible for the Mesopotamian flood stories combined with the rainout of wayr kicked up by the large impactor that created burkle crater.

Using satellite imagery, Master (2001, 2002) suggests the 3.4 km diameter dry lake may be an impact crater based on its nearly circular, slightly polygonal shape, rim shape, and contrasting shape to other lakes in the region. As to its origin, Master rules out Karst solution, salt doming, tectonic deformation, and igneous intrusion as well as possible bombing or man-made origins of the structure.

Master (2001, 2002) estimates the age of the crater to be less than 5,000 years, due to the deposition of sediments of the Tigris-Euphrates plain as a result of the 130–150 km seaward progradation of the Persian Gulf during that time period (Larsen & Evans 1978). A lack of writings describing this event by contemporary authors, such as Herodotus (484–425 BC) and Nearchus (360–300 BC) or later historians, suggests the impact may have taken place between 3000 and 5000 years BP (Master 2002). During this time period, the Al Amarah region was under the Persian Gulf at a depth of approximately 10 m (Larsen & Evans 1978: 237). Impact-induced tsunamis would have devastated coastal Sumerian cities. This may provide an alternate origin of the 2.6 m sediment layer discovered during an excavation of the Sumerian city of Ur by Leonard Wooley in 1954. Descriptive passages in The Epic of Gilgamesh (circa 1600–1800 BCE) may describe such an impact and tsunami, suggesting a link to the Sumerian Deluge (Matthews 2001; Britt 2001):

...and the seven judges of Hell, the Annunaki, raised their torches, lighting the land with their livid flame. A stupor of despair went up to heaven when the god of the storm turned daylight into darkness, when he smashed the land like a cup. One whole day the tempest raged, gathering fury as it went, it poured over the people like tides of battle; a man could not see his brother nor the people be seen from heaven. Even the gods were terrified at the flood, they fled to the highest heaven, the firmament of Anu; they crouched against the walls, cowering like curs. (Sanders 1960).

en.m.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by punkinworks10


The Hittite "Song of Ullikummi" also references these events

cosmictusk.com...

Originally posted by LUXUS
reply to post by Hanslune

 

Well the way I see it is that if the Earth wobbled on its axis and this caused weather patterns to change (ie sea levels to rise) something was responsible for causing that wobble, meteorite impact perhaps? I cant imagine the earth just wobbling suddenly without an external force.

According to ancient gnostic teachings there are two genetic lines on this planet, the bloodline of Cain and the bloodline of Seth, actually this is true not only of the gnostic but others such as the masons and Jewish kabbalists who inherited this knowledge from older sources. Essentially Eve was the mother of Seth and Cain but Adam was only the father of Seth, whilst one of the Elohim was the father of Cain ie Cain was the first demigod (Titan).

Yes that is the Bible story (and from other places I guess) but as genetics have shown there are not 'two bloodlines'.

Have you actually read Gen 4:1?

Originally posted by punkinworks10
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I agree that Atlantis is an allegorical tale, but it is based on the fall of the Minoan trade empire , and the loss of their capital on Thera. The minoans controlled the trade of tin and other metals from the eastern med all the way to the British isles, with strongholds at mining communities in Iberia.
A lot of what has been miss characterized as Mycenean is really Minoan as the early Mycenean city states were Minoan client states.
Anyone who reads Criteas literally is making a big mistake and missing the real history contained within it.

I would agree that the explosion at Thera and the damage to the Minoans may have been a major component of Plato's story and it is also possible that the AE had recorded the event.

reply to post by punkinworks10


It does? Could you paste the relevant part from a translation not from that website.

reply to post by Hanslune


I will track down a source, but E.P Grondine is working from the accepted translation.

reply to post by Hanslune


Hans,
There is so little work done in this area, and like I said epg is the only serious work in this field.
He is working from Gutterbrock's accepted translation, which is available at JSTOR.
So if you have a chance, at least read G. P. Grondine's interpretation of the "Song of Ullikummi".
Combined with Courty' s field work makes a compelling case.
Also Napier"s and Clube's work on identification of the celestial object, and the evolution of the taurid complex really make a good case.

As far as a global deluge is concerned, if there was an oceanic impact in any specific area of the ancient world, it would appear to those involved, as though the whole world was flooded.
In the case of the YDB event, which is the second episode of taurid progenitor breakup, the native Californians mythology records there are subtle differences in the flood stweories, that speak to these events.
Among the northern miwok, the world is set aflame, then the water comes over the mountains( the California coast range) from the west. This is consistent with an oceanic impact tsunami. But with the southern tribes the motif changes to that of , the world was set aflame and it melted all of the snow in the high mountains, which drowned the people of the valleys.

Originally posted by punkinworks10
reply to post by Hanslune

 

I will track down a source, but E.P Grondine is working from the accepted translation.

No he modified it and so states that he did

3) Guterbock was puzzled (page 55) as what kind of stone (NA)kunkunuzzi
was. It is clearly a meteorite-stone, having recieved its name
onomatopoetically from the sound of the explosion, kunkun, that
impactors make when they hit. Some changes come from alternatives
suggested by Guterbock in the commentary: (GIS) siattal is clearly best
translated as “spear point“, as Guterbock suggested (page 54) and not
as “blade“, which he used.

That is why I'm looking for an unaltered translation :]