The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by TKDRL


So you think i blame himself for being killed?
I believe i said that Z provoked the situation in the first place, but he could do that and still be shooting in selfdefence at the end.

But i did implie that if TM was a regular saint that never ever fight, didnt, sell gun(s) and much more i would be more likely to think he didnt attack Z - is that wrong?

reply to post by Minus


I really don't see how one could say he provoked the situation. For all Marin knew Zimmerman wanted to ask him something. If Zimmerman had said something negative or chased him down maybe, but looking for him and then headng back to his truck? Nah.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


His injuries strongly suggest he was being pummeled, don't you think? Broken nose and hole in the back of his scalp ring a bell?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


When he left the truck, he must at that point have decided that its likely he would have to confront TM at some point - thats what i ment by he provoked it.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


I like how you attack zimmerman and anyone who supports his story with negative comments. That'll really run people over to your side.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


You bash Zimmerman for being proactive in protecting his neighborhood, and at the same time bash a guy for being the exact opposite of what you seem to hate that Zimmerman did...... So which is it? Are we supposed to be "cowards" and not do anything, or are we supposed to be proactive?

reply to post by IvanAstikov


LOL no he WAS NOT TRAINED IN MMA. You took his comment about Zimmermans overall skill being a .5 out of 10 and tried to pretend it was some real, universal scale. No, what the trainer said is that Zimmerman never learned an holds, moves, how to punch or anything. He wasn't even punching the heavy bags yet.

So no, he was absolutely NOT trained in MMA, that's a garbage lie and you know it. What makes you stoop to lying to make a case that isn't there?

The gym trainer said Zimmerman was not trained in any of that stuff, especially what the poster I was replying to indicated.

reply to post by Minus


I don't understand your point I guess.

reply to post by conspiracy nut


Announce yourself as neighborhood watch? That's rich..... "Hey you, I am a civilian! Stop right there!"

reply to post by Minus


That is just not true and is wild speculation on your part. Let's put it this way, the prosecution wants you to think of Zimmerman as a cop, instead think of him as a spy. He may have gotten out with the intention of observing Martin , never closer than a hundred yards. He could have and most likly was just trying to get a location on him. I doubt he ever had any intetio of confronting.

Now playing on your side, what if he was going t find Martin and his full inmtention was to find him and ask him this question " hey, I was just seeing what you are doing. There have been breakins, do you live in here?" Would you consider that provoking?

You have no idea what his intentions were, why jump to "hemust have planned to confront him?"

reply to post by TKDRL


My point is what the jury thinks - where they put their weight to this matter.
Im not a defender of any of them, trying to view it objective and not take part.

reply to post by TKDRL


Those injuries on the back of his head... when do you estimate they were caused? Seconds before the gunshot, perhaps? As much as 10 seconds before, maybe? How much blood do you think would have started to flow by the time George finally got control of his gun, fired the fatal shot, and watched as Trayvon sat back on his haunches in some manner, said "You got me!" then fell off to the side? Would that blood have flowed up towards his chin while he was lying on his back? If he'd been rolling his head from side to side, to avoid Trayvon's blows, shouldn't that blood flow have been smudged and haphazard, rather than moving smoothly in one direction? Think about it. Gravity never lies.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow
reply to post by Minus

 

That is just not true and is wild speculation on your part. Let's put it this way, the prosecution wants you to think of Zimmerman as a cop, instead think of him as a spy. He may have gotten out with the intention of observing Martin , never closer than a hundred yards. He could have and most likly was just trying to get a location on him. I doubt he ever had any intetio of confronting.

Now playing on your side, what if he was going t find Martin and his full inmtention was to find him and ask him this question " hey, I was just seeing what you are doing. There have been breakins, do you live in here?" Would you consider that provoking?

You have no idea what his intentions were, why jump to "hemust have planned to confront him?"

Think you got it all wrong - and its not a wild speculation.
I dint say he must confront him violently, it could as well be verbal - but when you follow a suspicted criminal, dont tell my its not on your mind that its possible to meet him.

And im not jumping to he planned to confront him, i said it must have been on his mind that it could happen.

as i said, im not a defender of any of them - and try not to twist my words if you want to reply.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Gravity didn't lie. When he was on his back it would have dripped down off his head, when he stood up it would have flowed to the sides if he bent dow to move trayvon and down when he stood. I don't think anything about the blood creates doubt in his story.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


Well since he wasn't an MMA expert, perhaps he wasn't moving his head at all? Maybe he was just trying to cover his face with his arms like most nonfighters seem to do when getting pummeled?

Originally posted by Minus

Originally posted by LadyGreenEyes
Now, please THINK about these facts, and consider that this near-adult teen wasn't as innocent as people were initially told.

Thats true, he was no innocent kid - selling gun(s), fighting, a thief, druguser amongst others.
And theres no doubt that Z got himself into a situation he couldtn handle and got his as s kicked bigtime, and its pretty likely that he shot in self defence. But Z got himself into that situation for sure - wonder what the jury is going to focus on the most - the selfdefence part or that he provoked the situation and therefor the death of TM.

So, exiting his vehicle in his own neighborhood somehow makes him culpable? Really? Not even close! He did nothing wrong. He had a teen with pot in his system, in the rain, checking out houses, in a neighborhood that had many burglaries with black teens as identified suspects. One HOME INVASION was among those, with a woman and her baby hiding upstairs. had the burglars raped and killed her, and killed her child, who would be calling that a hate crime, I wonder.

Walking isn't provoking anything. Following isn't provoking anything. If Martin wasn't trying to hide his activities, or worried about a witness, he would not have felt a need to attack a guy for walking, as he was. That he did attack, and made racist comments, shows he was the only aggressor, the only one to instigate anything, and the only one to blame.

reply to post by Minus


I didn't twist your words, you said he must have thought/considered it was likely he would have to confront trayvon.

First saying he must've thought anything is speculation.
Second there is no rea reason it would have to be likely.
And third and most important in noting I didn't twist your meaning, you said must confront TM. That implies he would be the one confronting TM. There is no reason to believe that at all. That's big speculation.

Not trying to create offense or argue with you since you have tried to be more objective than anyone else I have disagreed with. Just sayin'.

Originally posted by GogoVicMorrow

LOL no he WAS NOT TRAINED IN MMA.

So what was he taking lessons in....?

reply to post by GogoVicMorrow


I absolely dont know what he actually was thinking of, so yes its speculation
I said it was "likely" not that it was "exactly" that, so yes you are right, but i will speculate again and say its not often its way off.

you must admit that it is likely that if you follow or walk into an area where you kno there is a suspected criminal, that ones thought normally "would" wander in that direction of its possible you have to confront him in some way. its also possible that Z thought about what topping he wanted on his pizza, or if he should buy a cat tommorow, all speculation

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by TKDRL

 

When was he being pummeled? Don't say that is what Good saw, because he isn't sure of any such thing. He was too cowardly to even pop his head out of the door for more than 10 seconds. Nothing he saw suggests a life-threatening, savage assault on a completely helpless victim. He even stated the situation was fluid/dynamic, and that it moved from one place to another, with Zimmerman seemingly having no problem shimmying here, there and everywhere.

Did you ever look at the early pics of Zimmerman's face? Nose swollen, and looking broken, and blood all over.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by TKDRL

 

Those injuries on the back of his head... when do you estimate they were caused? Seconds before the gunshot, perhaps? As much as 10 seconds before, maybe? How much blood do you think would have started to flow by the time George finally got control of his gun, fired the fatal shot, and watched as Trayvon sat back on his haunches in some manner, said "You got me!" then fell off to the side? Would that blood have flowed up towards his chin while he was lying on his back? If he'd been rolling his head from side to side, to avoid Trayvon's blows, shouldn't that blood flow have been smudged and haphazard, rather than moving smoothly in one direction? Think about it. Gravity never lies.

There was blood in all directions in the earlier pics. Some half congealed-looking at the sites, some running here and there, as he stood up after he fired, and waited for the police, who arrived almost immediately. Nothing about that contradicts his clams. Even the state, with all their shenanigans, hasn't tried that as plausible.