The Zimmerman Trial

reply to post by ButterCookie


Do you live in the same circles Trayvon moved in? Do you know whether he applied The All New Singing And Dancing C-Word to every white person, or just the one's who followed black teens while they were walking home from the store? Without that information you are just whistling Dixie and hoping nobody notices you are way out of tune.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
The medical examiner was very credible in his testimony

What testimony??? All he did was say "I don't know" or "I don't remember" and when he tried to read from his pre-scripted speech, he got everyone in trouble and the pre-scripted speech didn't answer any questions. The guy was on a mission to look good for the prosecution and all that he did was get the prosecution in trouble ... making them raise their hands and swear to the judge and the court that they weren't involved in witness tampering and evidence tampering .....

Originally posted by MrWendal
Then why do we even have a Police force in every city and town across the whole country?

PIcture this ... An intruder breaks in .... he can kill me within seconds.
If I can even get to a phone to call the cops, they won't be any help for tens of minutes.
My glock is my instant help.
Sometimes a person has to help themselves .....
(that's not exactly what you were getting at ... but I wanted to add that anyways)

I find it very sad that some hard core Martin fans are giving him a free pass on his being a racist, but then try to nail ZImmerman as being racist because he described Martin with the word 'black'. Double standard. The fact is that Martin is the only one to say anything racist in this whole situation.

reply to post by FlyersFan


The prosecution established 2 things with this witness.

1. Zimmerman's single shot was either the luckiest shot ever under the kind of circumstances he describes, or he took pretty careful aim to get it to hit where it did.

2. Trayvon Martin would likely have still been conscious when Zimmerman and Manalo were discussing ammunition sizes and could well have overheard it. How surreal must that have been for the 17 yr old who'd been chatting on the phone harmlessly 20 minutes earlier?

Zimmerman's lawyer may have done a great job of swirling the murky bathtub, but he didn't totally hide those little nuggets of information.

reply to post by FlyersFan


That is a total mischaracterization of his testimony. The ME testified that he had no memory of the autopsy. He was relying upon his autopsy report to answer questions. He did have some notes that he prepared prior to testimony in anticipation of questions he believed he would be asked.

Once the defense found that out by the ME's own admission, they requested to see the notes. Then they wanted a copy of the notes. The ME objected to that but the judge allowed copies to be made for both sides. They were reviewed upon the lunch break. The defense got their panties in a knot over two "opinions" that the ME changed since his deposition back in November 2012. They accused the prosecution of receiving those opinions the day before the ME's testimony and not turning that over to the defense as required by "Brady".

After lunch they came back and went side bar. At that point I observed the prosecutor take an oath in front of the judge, after which there was a Richardson hearing. A Richardson hearing took place because the defense accused the prosecution of not revealing the two changed opinions. (From 1-3 minutes to 1-10 and that the ME had changed his opinion on the affects that the THC could have had). The medical examiner was called to the stand in the absence of the jury and a Richardson hearing was held. He was questioned and it was determined by his testimony that the discovery violations did NOT occur.

Once he resumed questioning before the jury, the only thing the defense asked of him was if he was going to refer to his notes to refresh his recollection was to inform the attorneys of this.

That is exactly what happened. I watched the whole thing.

reply to post by FlyersFan

If I can even get to a phone to call the cops, they won't be any help for tens of minutes.

If that's the case, why are so many Zimmerman defenders insisting Trayvon should have just phoned the police if he was that concerned about the creepy guy following him? He had no right to stand his own ground - he was meant to run straight home and not even question what had just happened. It wasn't his turf and he had no right to be there challenging the authority of a concerned resident, seems to be the general consensus of those who think Trayvon was a murderous thug. The double standards are so blatant, I have to wonder if there's some form of cognitive dissonance going on.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I never thought this case was about race. I thought this was a case where an over zealous little man assumed a kid was a "suspect" and stalked and attacked him.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
The ME testified that he had no memory of the autopsy. He was relying upon his autopsy report to answer questions. He did have some notes that he prepared prior to testimony in anticipation of questions he believed he would be asked.

He had more than 'SOME NOTES". He had a script. And both the script and the autopsy report didn't do any good for him because even after spending hundreds of hours reviewing them (his words) in the days before his testimony, he STILL could not remember anything about them or the autopsy. He was pretty worthless as a witness.

That is exactly what happened. I watched the whole thing.

I watched the whole thing too. He was a hostile witness. He refused to answer questions but kept trying to go back to his scripted answers to read, even though what he was reading didn't come close to what was being asked. He contradicted himself over and over ... "Martin couldn't move after being shot" "Martin maybe could have moved for a while after being shot" "Martin couldn't move after being shot". He didn't know if the procedures had been followed in the lab or not. He kept saying 'it should be' instead of 'it was' or 'it wasn't'.

He had an agenda ... be a good prosecution witness and get certain points across from reading his script. This didn't work out for him. He was more trouble to the prosecution than a help.

But if you wish to see it differently .... that's your right ....

Originally posted by GrantedBail
I never thought this case was about race. I thought this was a case where an over zealous little man assumed a kid was a "suspect" and stalked and attacked him.

The only people who made it a racial thing were the people like the New Black Panthers and the Main Stream Media who selectively edited evidence to make it look like Zimmerman was a racist. However, the fact remains that the only racist statement made that evening was made by Martin ... 'crazy ass cracker'. That's racist. There is no getting around it.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

IF (and that's a big IF) Martin jumped Zimmerman, then he was a stupid thug-wanna be. All Martin had to do was go home. He wasn't that far away. But considering what his online social media comments were, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he decided to jump someone.


My take ... as I've said before ..... both Zimmerman and Martin had 'attitudes'. Both made bad decisions. If Zimmerman had stayed in his car and if Martin had just gone home, none of this would have happened. Zimmerman did nothing illegal by following and observing Martin. When things turned illegal ... was when the first punch was thrown. Whoever threw the first punch .. that is the perp responsible for the death. And we won't ever know who threw the first punch. People can guess all they want .... but their guesses aren't fact.

We do not know who threw the first punch ... that was the illegal act.
Therefore ..... beyond reasonable doubt ..... 'not guilty'.

reply to post by FlyersFan


The only person I heard allege he had a script was the lawyer turned legal media person. He made a few statements regarding if the ME had a "script' then bla bla bla bla bla.

He also feigned incredulousness at an attorney being sworn in at a sidebar and how he had never seen that in all of his years of practice...bla bla bla. A lot of drama about nothing. NOTHING.

Schaeffer was left with plenty of mud on his face after his presumptions he made on the livefeed and blog of that television station during the Anthony trial. He is a hack. That is my opinion.

Yes, I did catch the he couldn't move, maybe he could move. That wasn't so great.

We shall see.

I got to get some sleep.

See ya tomorrow.

reply to post by FlyersFan


The first words out of the dispatcher's mouth after George had laid out his spurious suspicions should have been "Can you elaborate a bit more on what you think is suspicious about this guy? For example, what is he doing right now?" instead of, "Is he black or hispanic?" Had he focused on getting more pertinent information from George, NBC would have had no such footage to edit.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
However, the fact remains that the only racist statement made that evening was made by Martin ...

Actually, that was the only racist statement that was recorded. We don't know if other racist statements were made or not. There was much we didn't hear (or see). Race is insignificant in this situation, IMO. I do believe there was racial profiling, but I think almost anyone in the same situation would be guilty of that. As non-racist as I like to think myself to be, if I saw a black kid wondering around on a dark, rainy night, I would take note of his race. It's just an ugly fact of being raised in the 60s in this country, IMO, and try as I might, I haven't been able to shake it completely.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


The area I live in is probably 90-95% white, and the black criminals can't get a foot on the criminal ladder unless they have acquaintances who are white. Throw drugs and surplus cash into any society and you are creating a breeding ground for serious crime. I know there are young white men(and a few older ones) walking my local streets who are as vicious as any criminal on the planet and they don't even have the excuse of having grown up in a war zone. The colour of a person's skin is no indication of the ugliness of their heart.

Never mind.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We don't know if other racist statements were made or not.

Very true. However, there seem to be people ASSUMING racism that hasn't been established.
The only established racist remark was Martins.

Race is insignificant in this situation,

I totally agree. It's just that people are poo-poo'ng the racist remark that Martin made.
The fact is ... it was racist .. or bigoted .... but the point is, it was there and it was real.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Never mind.

I've done that like three times on this thread alone. Sometimes it's just not worth it ....


I heard on the news that 'they' expect to be done with the defense this week. That it won't take long.
Then the verdict sometime next week probably. Right in the heat wave of mid summer. Not good.

reply to post by FlyersFan

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It's just that people are poo-poo'ng the racist remark that Martin made.

Yeah, I'm poo-pooing it, too. Did Trayvon have racist intent? Maybe. But considering the circumstances - talking with his friend in a private conversation - it's not a big deal at all to me. My husband and I have been having a field day with the phrase since we heard it. I think it's funny as hell. And we have used some phrases and words with each other that I would NEVER use in public because the audience would think I was a terrible, racist, homophobic and anti-Semitic person. And you know I'm not.

People use words in private conversations for effect and I don't have a problem with it. It's just words. I wouldn't expect Trayvon to stop and think about being politically correct with some crazy-ass cracker following him. How much worse is that phrase than what Zimmerman called Martin on the phone? Just because it's racial, does that make it worse?

Yeah, I heard that about the defense being done this week, too. They don't have to call as many witnesses because the prosecution did such a bad job. I keep thinking the state will pull something out of its hat, but I'm losing all hope. Their only hope is to plant some SERIOUS doubt in the jury's mind with closing statements. Hopefully, this will all be over soon, I can cry about it and get on with my life!

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

Originally posted by FlyersFan
It's just that people are poo-poo'ng the racist remark that Martin made.

Yeah, I'm poo-pooing it, too.

If Zimmerman was known to use the 'n' word in private .. would you poo-poo that too?
Or would you find it relevant to the investigation. Just gotta ask.