The Zimmerman Trial

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by Libertygal

 

There are a lot of things to complain about regarding the ME's performance on the stand, but I don't see how they reflect on his competency to do autopsies and take accurate, RELEVANT notations on each case. O Mara expecting him to remember actually examining Trayvon, as if he was anything more than just another dead black kid then and should be paid special attention to, is ridiculous. O Mara's badgering about the collecting of dna from Trayvon's nails was a joke. As if it mattered under which specific fingernail a trace was found, or, as the case turned out, wasn't found.

Look. Either you have a reading comprehension problem, or are intentionally trolling and twisting my worda. I never said ANYof those things about the M.E..

Never ONCE did I question or doubt his competency to perform an autopsy.

Never ONCE did his note taking ability come into question.

He was called to testify in a high profile case.

He knew this within DAYS after the autopsy.

He KNEW he was required by LAW to share the copies of notes with both the defense and prosecution.

He HID his notes on purpose, it was an INTENTIONAL ATTEMPT at deception.

When called out on it, he became hostile.

He stayes he spent HUNDREDS of hours reviewing the autopsy evidence, photos, notes, and prepared potential questions and answers he anticipated being asked in court. THAT is a SCRIPT!

How can one spend HUNDREDS of hours going over that material and not be able to testify from memory!? It is obvious he was coached and told what to say. Do not be shocked or surprised if he is brought up on charges or sanctioned in some way after the trial.
The incident happened at 7:15 pm. The assistant M.E. arrived on scene at 9:45 pm. She left at 10:10pm. We do not know how much longer it was before Trayvons' body was removed from the scene.

We DO know his hands were NOT bagged, which is proceedure. Ever. The M.E. testified to this.



Video 2 of 3, where he got busted using his script. Note his horrible discomfort at being caught. Also note that the judge, though allowing photocopies to be made for both attorneys, says the "notes" will be destroyed.


The"badgering" (which is a fake accusation, it was never determined as such by the judge, and hence is inflamatory on your behalf, ie: trolling) was when OMara was questioning the DNA expert, not the M.E. Are you intentionally confusing the issue by talking about two seperate witnesses as if they were one?



Video 1 of 3

And finally



Video 3 of 3

The truth of the matter is Mark OMara NEVER cross examined Dr. Shiping Bao, ao he could never "badger" him per your accusation.

I challenge you to find the video, give the time marker, and prove your accusation of badgering of a witness by Mark OMara. Please include the time marker where the judge admonished him for "badgering".

It never happened, it is inflamatory, and I profer you are not even watching the trial, but doing nothing more than continuing, even after warning by mods numerous times, than coming into the thread to fan the flames of racial tensions and trolling.

Noting that, and having proven that not only by myself.and others, perhaps you should self- moderate, and at the very least, people should recognize what you are doing and stop feeding the troll.

However, every time you mischaractize my statememts, or twist my words to attempt to make it look like I am saying something I am not, it will not be allowed to go unchallenged. My post speaks for itself.

reply to post by GrantedBail


Im fine thanx, hopefull you too?

Prosecutors called as a witness Alexis Francisco Carter, the military attorney who taught Zimmerman’s class that covered Florida’s stand-your-ground law, which says a person has no duty to retreat and can invoke self-defense in killing someone if it is necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm. Carter described Zimmerman as one of his better students and said the neighborhood watch volunteer got an “A” in his class.

Your absolutely right, i got that one wrong, sorry - pretty sure i got it second handed from flyersfan

reply to post by conspiracy nut


Yeah, the Zimmerman defenders can't deal with that testimony and want to pretend they didn't hear it.

Come on now, your "boy" lied about that!

All I hear are crickets and denial.

reply to post by jrod


The tests done on the clothing weren't routine, and that's where the interesting forensics story is. If faulty evidence handling is the argument against that, they first have to explain why the only dna that was destroyed was Trayvon's dna on George's clothes, and George's dna on Trayvon's clothes. The likelihood of that would be nil. George had loads of dna of his own detected on his own clothing and so did Trayvon, but somehow the faulty storage, or whatever didn't destroy that evidence.

reply to post by Minus


Ha ha.

Yeah, certain people that are prevalent on this thread do not always convey correct information

Read into that what you may.

Originally posted by ugie1028
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

so if you dont take everything hook line and sinker... then why... are you going on like a broken record regurgitating media talking points about the case? (The MSM endorses war too) you know.. instead of sticking to the facts pertaining to the case itself.

Because, he isn't watching the case, he is trolling.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by jrod
My understanding is TM was given a routine autopsy and they do not check for DNA under the fingernails on a routine autopsy. In other words Zimmerman's DNA was not found on TM because it was not looked for. So it may or may not have been there. The DNA argument has no weight.

That does nothing to explain the absence of Zimmerman's dna on Trayvon's clothing, though. Fungi, or anything else that specifically destroys all Zimmerman's dna, but fails to affect other dna traces, is simply not going to fly.

edit on 6-7-2013 by IvanAstikov because: (no reason given)

Another lie. Georges' blood was UNDER the hoodie, on Trayvons' sweatshirt. Likely due to when he got on Trayvons' back and wrestled his arms from under him and spread them out, but that is speculation.

It does not belie the FA CT Georges' blood was on Trayvons' clothing.

Just becuse it was not where YOU think it should be, does not discount the FACTS.

reply to post by Libertygal


You're taking things way too personal. If all you have is trolling accusations because I made the mistake of ascribing something to O Mara when it was West instead, you really need to take a step back from this topic. I agreed that the ME's entire testimony left a lot to be desired, but just not for the same reasons you do, ie. to provide further weight to an argument for Zimmerman's exoneration.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

he never paused to wonder why this
"effing punk" wasn't running like all the rest of them

Wait. Either he ran and George pursued him, followed him, hunted him down like an animal ans murdered him, or he atood atill and didn't run.

See how you manipulate things to suit your "facts"?

reply to post by Libertygal


His personal notes ended up being nothing about nothing. The defense freaked out and accused the prosecution of receiving information that was in conflict with the Doctor's deposition. That is why we had the long recess, and then the Richardson hearing out of the presence of the jury.

Furthermore, the notes were provided to the both parties upon the lunch recess. The only beef the prosecutors had with the usage of the notes was that they wanted for the ME to articulate when he was using them to refresh his memory upon his continued testimony AFTER the Richardson hearing. There was no there, there. The defense accused the State of having information of his "changed" opinions the day before his testimony.

You are blowing the whole thing out of proportion, as well as being disingenuous.

The medical examiner was very credible in his testimony and only change his "opinion" (which he clearly defined from the stand) on two forensic issues. The first being his estimation of the time that TM was alive after the unsurvivable bullet wound to his heart; from 1-3 minutes to 1-10 minutes. I saw that revelation as pro-prosecution. Second he changed his "opinion" on his estimation of the affect of the THC in Trayvon's blood sample. I saw that revelation as pro-defense.

What else you got.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

reply to post by conspiracy nut


It was actually called Code 766, The Castle Doctrine, and Extended Castle Doctrine.

SYG is a nickname, and didn't come in to popularity until some two years or so after George took the class.

reply to post by Libertygal


So the law that applies to the statute that derived out of the "Castle Doctrine" has a different application within the constraints of SYG?? Or are you obfuscating. I am not trying to be combative. I am trying to understand your point.

Originally posted by Libertygal
Another lie. Georges' blood was UNDER the hoodie, on Trayvons' sweatshirt. Likely due to when he got on Trayvons' back and wrestled his arms from under him and spread them out, but that is speculation.

It does not belie the FA CT Georges' blood was on Trayvons' clothing.

Just becuse it was not where YOU think it should be, does not discount the FACTS.

That is but one fact. A lot of the time, forensic science is not about what the experts find, but what they don't find. How do you suppose Zimmerman got all the dna stains that he did on his jacket? Both the front and back were spattered top to bottom with Z's dna, and the stuff on his back couldn't have happened until after he was standing, obviously.

You'd think with all the adrenaline coursing through him, by the time he got atop of Trayvon, those cuts on the back of his head should have been really flowing, and the trails running everywhere, rather than the barely running trickles we see in Manalo's photo.

Maybe George is a slow bleeder, as well as a fast healer, or maybe those injuries were very recent, and due to their slight nature, had already run their course? I've heard that people who fake injuries often show their reluctance to hurt themselves by the slightness of their injury.

Originally posted by GrantedBail
The medical examiner was very credible in his testimony

You really think so?

Hes was so scared of being interpreted the wrong way that he had a hard time to answer anything, on top of that the linguistic problem, and his memory? its ok he cant remember over a year back, but he had a hard time rembering what he did the day before - and he said so "I dont remember anything - zero"
And yet i havent even mentioned his own notes

maybe he was credible, but he was also a walking post apocalyptic armageddon for the prosecution

Originally posted by Libertygal
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

he never paused to wonder why this
"effing punk" wasn't running like all the rest of them

Wait. Either he ran and George pursued him, followed him, hunted him down like an animal ans murdered him, or he atood atill and didn't run.

See how you manipulate things to suit your "facts"?

No. Do keep up. He stood still at the beginning and was found suspicious by George, and when he actually started running he was found even more suspicious. I'll try and explain again. George had declared that he'd had a problem with "effing punks" who ran away. He saw Trayvon Martin standing still and decided that because he wasn't running or didn't start running, that was suspicious in itself. Then, George drove right past the suspicious non-running person, parked his vehicle like a good, law-abiding citizen, and phoned a nen service. Not for advice, or anything, because they aren't authorised to give advice, but to let them know what this suspicious person he could no longer see was doing.

Trayvon, playing his part, came walking right by George's parked car, saw George on the phone, did something threatening with his hand and his waistband, and walked right on by as if he didn't have a care in the world. George wasn't having any of that and decided he'd better keep closer tabs on him. Giving Trayvon a bit of a start, he then followed him onto that road he could never remember the name of, such was the complicated layout of the neighbourhood he was NW Captain of, no less.

Shall I carry on manipulating?

reply to post by IvanAstikov

Maybe George is a slow bleeder, as well as a fast healer, or maybe those injuries were very recent, and due to their slight nature, had already run their course? I've heard that people who fake injuries often show their reluctance to hurt themselves by the slightness of their injury.

Maybe, just maybe George, feeling big and strong with his loaded firearm, thought he would run down someone he mistakenly assumed was a "suspect". Zboy thought he was gonna save the day and finally capture someone and hold them for the cops??

Upon confrontation with the boy, Zimmerman thought he would go all East Oakland on the kid. The kid decided he wasn't having none of that and he proceeded to defend himself not knowing what George's trip was. Seeing as George never said, "I am with the neighborhood watch, I have never seen you before and was wondering if you live here?" Wouldn't that have been the appropriate thing to do??

I am serious. I have taught my boys to fight themselves out, scream, and run anytime an adult confronts them. Sadly, it is something you need to teach your kids these days. Seriously, I have even gone so far as to grab them from behind and show them how to get out of that grip. I have told them to bite, scratch, go for the nuts and scream as loud as they can.

I would imagine after seeing this woman, and now knowing that her older son is a senior in college, she is a good mother. Teens go astray for a minute, but they come back, especially if they have been given good foundations. This kid had no ear piercings, no tattoos, or anything else that would identify him as a "thug" as so many of you have so recklessly alleged. Teenage boys, go through identity crises, and try to figure out who they are, and they desperately want to belong. Even though they have great love and support at home. They need outside acceptance, and they can't get that from their moms. It is not that easy.

Everyone has been way too judgmental on Trayvon and his mother. From what I can see it is a decent family. A hard working mother who has instilled values in her sons. Can't wait till you have teen boys. Boy are you in for a surprise.

reply to post by Minus


Did you hear the bit where he said he was too busy to be getting published? He was a spiky fella, I'll give him that. Not that I blame him faced with Zimmerman's defence team. Having his medical authority questioned by West obviously rustled his jimmies, and didn't do the state any favours, but at least people can't say the fix is in if the state are throwing experts like this guy into the mix.

I get how a guy who has done 3000 autopsies might have them all blur into one, as he doesn't want to get involved with them on an individual/personal basis as that would bring unwanted emotion into his work.

reply to post by GrantedBail


At around the age of 7, when my walk home from school was regularly disrupted by a young bully who used to lie in wait for me, my mother, not my father, gave me the instructions that if anyone bigger than me tried to hurt me, kick them in the shin and run, and if they were the same size, kick them in the balls and do the same. I've learnt a few more tactics since that first self-defence class.

reply to post by IvanAstikov


He is a freakin medical examiner. He is not a cop, not an expert witness. He does autopsies all day long. He has done over 700 already this year, if I was hearing him right.

He is being called because he is the one that did the autopsy.

Not all physicians are published. That doesn't make them incompetent.

Obviously the defense is going to use a real "expert witness", who testifies for a living and is paid handsomely for that service. From the re-direct I can assume that this expert has written a book on gunshot wounds. So we will hear what he has to say.

Know this: He is probably an academic that no longer practices because he has found that being a paid "expert witness" is much more rewarding, if you get my drift.

That does not make him more qualified to opine on the autopsy of Trayvon. It only will make him more qualified to describe and analyze the bullet wound that was received by the kid.

You guys seem to think that all these expert witnesses practice medicine everywhere. Just because someone is an "expert witness" does not make them a superior someone who practices their field on a daily basis.

That would be like saying: A forensic psychiatrist has more understanding of a patient he has never seen than a practicing psychiatrist has of his own patient he has been treating.


On edit: Usually physicians that are published are academics. They must publish in order to retain their tenure. Practicing physicians do just that; they practice.