The Zimmerman Trial

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
Remove the Name George Zimmerman and replace that with Jeffrey Dahmer and you have a case for Murder in the 1st...
Trayvon had every right to defend himself even if that meant he landed the first punch....Dahmer...eh..Zimmerman should not have been stalking a Innocent child...

Have you been listening to the actual testimony? I know it sounds dramatic to post and all the other kids are doing it as hateful comments seem to be a common theme with those who have already decided Zimmerman's guilt however Zimmerman's behavior has been scrutinized in minutia does not come near meeting the definition of "stalking".

It is perfectly legal to follow somebody in the manner Zimmerman did. It is also perfectly legal to question somebody asking what they may be doing. They don't have to answer but its perfectly legal to ask.

It is against the law to punch someone but depending on the circumstance, in Florida it is legal to shoot and kill the person attacking you if you feel you are in imminent danger of great bodily injury or death.

People are maimed and killed every day from blows to the head or striking their head against concrete so its not unreasonable that somebody would feel they were in great danger being straddled and repeatedly struck.

Prior to Travon Martin being suspended from school for marijuana possession, he had previously been caught by campus security with woman's jewelry and a large screwdriver described at the time as a burglary tool. It has recently come to light that the jewelry matches the description of items taken from 2 homes that were coincidentally between Travon Martin's mothers house and his high school.

Travon Martin's Facebook page showed numerous photos with Travon posing with .40 cal semi auto, smoking pot and looking rather menacing with tattoos, gold teeth and his pants around his knees flashing gang signs.

He made multiple tweets referencing imbibing in a popular ghetto concoction of codeine based cough syrup, Arizona Iced Tea Watermelon and skittles. So much was made about those skittles and the innocence they portrayed, in reality his purpose for buying the skittles was anything but.

So that night Travon Martin is walking back to his dads house from the 7/11 after trying to hassle 18+ aged customers into buying him a "blunt" rapper abut having to settle for the makings of narcotic "Sizzurp". His mom has kicked him out for habitually bad behavior and he is upset that he has to live with his father ( he tweeted about this as well)

Zimmerman is actively involved in his community including the neighborhood watch program. He has been interested in law enforcement and has taken various related classes so has some idea how the system works. He understands his role as a neighborhood watch reporter well and has an established history of 911 calls reporting suspicious activity without approaching anyone

George Zimmerman see's 6'2" Travon Martin in sagging trousers and a hoody slowly walking from house to house down the block and seeming to pay an uncomfortable amount of attention to seeing what can be seen through open windows. There has been a rash of breaking including a home invasion in the neighborhood perpetuated nearly exclusively by young black gangbangers.

Zimmerman calls 911 to report suspicious behavior. Travon takes note of Zimmerman's attention and approaches Zimmerman's vehicle in a threatening manner. When he sees Zimmerman is on the phone, possibly with police, he breaks into a trot and disappears into the complex.

Zimmerman gets out either to see where Travon went or to check a street address. Zimmerman is asked if he is following and that "they don't need him to do that" and Zimmerman acknowledges. He hangs up with 911 and continues around the building to wait for the police.

He has no sight of Travon Martin until he nears the end of the pathway and suddenly Travon approaches him from behind, the way he had just came. Rather than running home from the "creepy a$$ cracker" Travon has chosen to hide in the shadows and bushes and ambush Zimmerman.

Travon asks Zimmerman what is problem is, Zimmerman says "I don't have one"and Travon says "you do now" and punches Zimmerman in the face. Zimmerman goes down with Travon of top landing multiple blows and knocking Zimmerman's head against the concrete sidewalk. Zimmerman starts screaming for help and Travon tries to cover his mouth to keep Zimmerman from screaming.

As they scuffle Zimmerman's shirt comes up revealing his holstered pistol. Travon see's the pistol and grabs for it saying "you are gonna die". Zimmerman goes into primal survival mode, gets control of the pistol and fires a single round into Travon's chest. Travon says "ow, you got me". Zimmerman, not knowing the wound is fatal gets out from under Travon, flips him over and tries to secure his arms.

The neighbors come out, the Police show up and the EMT's declare Travon dead.

Reciting the facts as they have been presented in a court of law makes your comments equating Zimmerman to Dahmer stalking innocent children sound rather misinformed and inappropriate but I am sure if you haven't learned the truth by now you aren't planning on letting details like facts get in the way of your opinion.

Originally posted by tjack
We'll never truly know exactly how it went down that night so I guess this trial is the best we have to try to understand the actual situation. I hope justice is served whichever side her scale tips.

However generally speaking, regarding wannabe cops and wannabe thugs, I know who I'd rather have walking the sidewalks in my neighborhood.

And who I'd rather not.

YMMV

So, you'd rather have someone with the poor judgement George showed, than a teenager walking home from the store? Got ya. Remember, if you think Trayvon showed poor judgement too, he would never have had the opportunity to make his mistakes if George hadn't got out of his vehicle and escalated the situation.

reply to post by IvanAstikov

Neither Martin nor Zimmerman broke the law until the first punch was thrown.
Both showed extremely poor judgement in their actions.
(that is, if you buy into Jeantel's testimony)
That's why the only thing that matters at this point is to know who threw the first punch.
We won't ever know that. That's why Murder 2 wont' happen.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot

It is against the law to punch someone but depending on the circumstance, in Florida it is legal to shoot and kill the person attacking you if you feel you are in imminent danger of great bodily injury or death.

Say you aren't old enough to legally own a gun, what are you legally allowed to do then if you believe you are in imminent danger of great bodily injury or death? Say you don't want to carry a gun? What are you allowed to do then? Am I allowed to defend myself with my fists if I have reasonable fear that someone might be about to shank me, or sucker-punch me? Do I have to wait for the first stabbing or punch before I can respond?

reply to post by IvanAstikov

Martins social media posts show that he wasn't too concerned with staying within the confines of the letter of the law. Ya' know??

Originally posted by FlyersFan
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

Martins social media posts show that he wasn't too concerned with staying within the confines of the letter of the law. Ya' know??

Have you seen Zimmerman's social media history? Don't you want to before you start going on about how likely Trayvon was to be a murderous thug based on his tweets?

ps. Plus, if Trayvon had no respect for the law, why do you think he didn't have his gun with him? Wait, let me guess... he ran to Brandy Green's and hid it before going back to confront George with his bag of candy and a canned drink?

reply to post by IvanAstikov


candy and a canned drink

I like you call it that - are you unaware of what he was going to use it for?

I dont think bringing up the background of any of them wil benefit either of them but it will be more fun to watch the trial hehe
Stay objective and let the evidince talk

Originally posted by Minus
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

candy and a canned drink

I like you call it that - are you unaware of what he was going to use it for?

It doesn't matter what he was going to use it for - he wasn't going to knock it back and go looking for George Zimmerman. Anyway, what is this stuff supposed to do? Is it like Popeye's spinach and gives the drinker super strength, or enhanced fighting abilities? I remember when I was a teen and we used to throw all sorts of things in with our beer, not iced tea, and it never gave any of us superior fighting abilities. The fact of the matter is, even performance-enhancing drugs aren't going to make you a better fighter if you don't put the training in, too. Which one of them was doing mma training, again?

reply to post by IvanAstikov


I agree, its dosnt matter what he was going to use it for, as it will not be a part of the trial - but you make him sound like an innocent kid with candy hehe

And again i agree it woudt most likey not increase his fighting skills

Buttomline is that theese statements are made out if who one think should win in the trial.
One man is allready dead, so before we destroy another mans life as well, the evidence should go beyond reasonable doubt, dont you think so?

Originally posted by Minus
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

I agree, its dosnt matter what he was going to use it for, as it will not be a part of the trial - but you make him sound like an innocent kid with candy hehe

And again i agree it woudt most likey not increase his fighting skills

Buttomline is that theese statements are made out if who one think should win in the trial.
One man is allready dead, so before we destroy another mans life as well, the evidence should go beyond reasonable doubt, dont you think so?

edit on 4-7-2013 by Minus because: adjusting grammatics

I'm not making him out to be an innocent kid, I am stating known facts. The most threatening item he had on him was a drink can and if he had used that as a weapon, I'm sure the police would have noted that in their "investigation."

As for the rest of your post, George's life is already destroyed, whether he gets a not guilty, or not. If the jury doesn't get him, Karma is a bitch who never forgets. You make your own bed and you have to lie in it, and Zimmerman is paying for his hastiness to pull a trigger. Live by the gun, die by it, and all that...

reply to post by IvanAstikov


I respect your opinion - but i will judge anyone yet, so no need for further discussion of this matter with me.

looking forward to the trial later, hope it get more exiting than yesterday

Originally posted by IvanAstikov

Originally posted by tjack
We'll never truly know exactly how it went down that night so I guess this trial is the best we have to try to understand the actual situation. I hope justice is served whichever side her scale tips.

However generally speaking, regarding wannabe cops and wannabe thugs, I know who I'd rather have walking the sidewalks in my neighborhood.

And who I'd rather not.

YMMV

So, you'd rather have someone with the poor judgement George showed, than a teenager walking home from the store? Got ya. Remember, if you think Trayvon showed poor judgement too, he would never have had the opportunity to make his mistakes if George hadn't got out of his vehicle and escalated the situation.

You sure like to twist peoples statements, yo. Been watching you do it for days now. Kinda figured you'd "get me" too.

To restate, what I meant is, "in general", if I had to choose between wannabe cops or wannabe thugs hanging out in my neighborhood, the choice *for me* is clear.

Not that I'd be comfortable with either, mind you, more like the lesser of two evils, but between those two choices one has a "protect the neighborhood" mindset and the other has an "exploit the neighborhood" mindset.

To me, if I was simply walking home with my candy and soda through a strange neighborhood and someone confronted me as GZ did TM, the situation would have gone no further because I would have simply told the concerned citizen, in a friendly manner, "Just walking home with my candy and soda, sir." and put his concerns at ease. You know, like normal, polite people do.

But that's just me.

Personally, I agree with the people that think they both probably acted like jerks and thus the escalation was a mutual thing.

You say "twist peoples statements," I say "read between the lines." You have no evidence whatsoever that TM was trying to exploit the area, but we have plenty of evidence of George breaking every major neighbourhood watch rule in the book.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
~snip~
You say "twist peoples statements," I say "read between the lines."
~snip~

Call it whatever you'd like, friend.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


##SNIPPED## Reportedly he was taking the skittles to his younger brother, which bye they bye reminds me of when I used to take Skittles to my nephews when they were small.

The Hoody: I sometimes put on a hoodie and wear the hood up when it rains in winter. It was winter. It was raining.

In regards to the "gang-like" photos on Facebook, he was a teenager. He might look like a gangster one day, and have on a shirt and tie the next, trying on different identities. It's what teenagers do.

But anyway, I see you must be capable of remote viewing, or somehow managed astral projection to the scene on that evening, because you obviously know what everybody was doing and thinking.

reply to post by Drunkenparrot


If the conversation panned out as Zimmerman and you describe - which is far from an established fact, by the way - then I'll eat my hat. It sounds like rubbish movie dialogue.

reply to post by BellaSabre


Do you take great care not to let your eyes stray towards other people's homes and to look active, as though you are training for a marathon, or something? If not, you could well be inspiring the next George Zimmerman to view you as suspicious and pay extra special attention to you.

Originally posted by Minus
reply to post by IvanAstikov

 

candy and a canned drink

I like you call it that - are you unaware of what he was going to use it for?

Yes, and so are you. But assuming he was going to make some godawful legal high with it, I'm not sure that has much bearing on the trial. As you rightly say.

Edit to add - actually, it turns out that Lean is made with Sprite. So this might just be another effort to smear him.

Originally posted by IvanAstikov
reply to post by Drunkenparrot

 

It is against the law to punch someone but depending on the circumstance, in Florida it is legal to shoot and kill the person attacking you if you feel you are in imminent danger of great bodily injury or death.

Say you aren't old enough to legally own a gun, what are you legally allowed to do then if you believe you are in imminent danger of great bodily injury or death? Say you don't want to carry a gun? What are you allowed to do then? Am I allowed to defend myself with my fists if I have reasonable fear that someone might be about to shank me, or sucker-punch me? Do I have to wait for the first stabbing or punch before I can respond?

Have you honestly argued the point this long without familiarity of the standard required to claim self defense?

I am not a lawyer but understand it depends on the specific circumstance and State self defense laws but as a rule, yes.

In Florida under the stand your ground, not always. You need to feel that you are facing imminent threat of death or great bodily harm so in some circumstance you don't have to be physically attacked to use deadly force.

Obviously the interpretation isn't that liberal as Zimmerman was charged and is on trial.

Zimmerman didn't fire until after he had been struck and Trayvon had followed him to the ground. The one witness who saw the fight was positive Trayvon was on top of Zimmerman striking multiple blows "MMA" style (whatever that means) and Zimmerman certainly had the injuries to cooperate the witness statement.

Again, it is not against the law to follow somebody or confront them about their activities.

It is against the law to attack somebody because you didn't like them were looking at you.

Had Travon have kept his hands to himself he would still be alive and we wouldn't be having this conversation.

I would point out that Trayvon's social media makes it clear that Trayvon was not only interested in procuring a gun, he had access to one at least long enough to take a couple of self photos.

The trial evidence has unquestionably shown that Trayvon had ample opportunity to disengage from Zimmerman and chose to not only confront him but physically attack him.

The entire narrative painting Zimmermen as a hateful racist, failed cop and loose cannon was spoon fed to the media by the Martin attorneys and further sensationalized by selective reporting and in some cases outright fabrication.

The only reason it went to trial is because some people don't think for themselves and believe everything the media tells them without question.

After hearing the prosecutions case I have no doubt whom I would rather have had as a neighbor.





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