Johannesburg Muslim Lawyer Association wants Obama arrested when he comes to South Africa

Obama's upcoming visit to South Africa seems to be creating a lot of tension. Do you all have any thoughts on this? I find it strange that he will be here also when Mandela's health is declining... allegedly in a "stable but serious" condition in hospital. Just a thought I had when reading this article.

It submitted a 600-plus page document to the Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions on Friday asking for an investigation into Obama's involvement in the Middle East. Group spokesman Yousha Tayob said Obama ordered drone strikes that killed innocent civilians. In terms of the Rome Statute, South Africa has the right to prosecute a war criminal on its territory, said Tayob. Researchers from New York University School of Law and Stanford University Law School recently released a report entitled "Living Under Drones: Death, Injury and Trauma to Civilians From US Drone Practices in Pakistan". They found that in four years Obama commissioned five times more drone attacks than former president George W Bush did in his two terms in the White House . The report estimates drones have killed between 474 and 881 civilians, including 176 children. The US Embassy in South Africa's spokesman Jack Hillmeyer said it had "no comment". National Prosecuting Authority spokesman Bulelwa Makeke said the office had received the docket and was studying it.

Here's the link to the article www.timeslive.co.za...

reply to post by Faitheliza

It submitted a 600-plus page document to the Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions on Friday asking for an investigation into Obama's involvement in the Middle East.

I wonder what is the point of this? They can't be that naive in thinking they can actually get to Obama or prosecute him ???

Only benefit I see here is raising awareness in public. Obama and the US are above any local or International law. Do they really think they can arrest him...even if he comes to South Africa? what a fantasy....

reply to post by MarioOnTheFly


Why couldnt they?

If he steps foot on their country after they told him he would be arrested if he did, why wouldnt they have that power?

Its their country.

He should be wise enough just not to go.

reply to post by Common Good


They would have to deal with CART, one of the most elite units on the planet, the Secret Service Counter Attack Response Team. They are the fighting end of the Presidential Protection Detail both foreign and domestically. They are the best of the best recruited from the top of the Special Forces of all branches. If some foreign agency even laid a finger on the President all hell would break loose. They have no authority to arrest him anyways, he's a foreign dignitary and has immunity from local prosecution on foreign land. They would need the Hague to issue an arrest warrant and try him in international court. Won't happen.

ETA: and don't think it's special treatment foreign diplomats have umbrella immunity for themselves and their subordinates in the US as well.

Obama wont' be arrested if he visits South Africa. Just as Bush43 wasn't arrested when he went to other countries who had elements within them calling for his arrest. It just doesn't work that way.

Arrested??

Them and how big an army? We have about 1.4 million, last I checked open estimates. This isn't some Goober with a GS rank. This is the President and talk like that is amusing but won't go anywhere. Whatsoever. Ever.

Interesting thing to publicly talk about though. It's safe to bet that if anyone belonging to this group had tickets to see him? They won't be valid anymore.

Originally posted by Faitheliza
...
Obama's upcoming visit to South Africa seems to be creating a lot of tension. ...

I'm not aware of any tension. As far as I can tell the majority of South Africans couldn't care less. Maybe things will liven up as the time nears.

And there won't be any attempts to arrest Obama. Our politicians aren't that stupid (stupid as they are).

I just hope that one of the minority "Radical" or "Extremist" groups in SA don't try anything boneheaded and embarrass South Africa.

Obama is probably only visiting SA to see Madiba (Nelson Mandela) - and he (Mandela) seems to be clinging desperately to life. We'll see...

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by Faitheliza

 

It submitted a 600-plus page document to the Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions on Friday asking for an investigation into Obama's involvement in the Middle East.

I wonder what is the point of this? They can't be that naive in thinking they can actually get to Obama or prosecute him ???

Only benefit I see here is raising awareness in public. Obama and the US are above any local or International law. Do they really think they can arrest him...even if he comes to South Africa? what a fantasy....

Obama and the US are ABOVE any local or international law? I think you mean they are protected and nobody has the balls to go after him thats quite something different then being above the law.

If it turns out they have a valid case against Obama or previous leaders they should be captured and prosecuted even if that means taking them in a other country. Wouldnt it be the day that anyone with any say in the USA wouldnt be allowed to be go outside the USA cause they be arrested.

or even more fun people being snatched from their houses to be brought to a other country to be prosecuted for their endless crimes against humanity. Also cool cause what goes around comes around.

But yeah this will never happend cause everybody is to afraid of "the man". Back to topic nothing will happen some awerness has been raised nothing more will happen.

namaste

donice

Originally posted by Common Good
reply to post by MarioOnTheFly

 

Why couldnt they?

If he steps foot on their country after they told him he would be arrested if he did, why wouldnt they have that power?

Its their country.

He should be wise enough just not to go.

Diplomatic immunity. I'm pretty sure that applies to Presidents since they do engage in diplomacy as part of their international duties. The president basically acts as the highest ranking diplomat when he's abroad.

Originally posted by Gemwolf
And there won't be any attempts to arrest Obama. Our politicians aren't that stupid (stupid as they are).

Not sure what to make of this statement. Are you suggesting that seeking recourse, no matter how absurdly difficult it might be, is stupid? One should simply accept defeat and limp off with one's tail between one's legs before the fight has even begun? Obama and the US are apparently above the law therefore there is no point in trying? And what is more, if any attempt is made to make a suspected war criminal stand charge, expect to be pounded back to the stone age for your trouble.

So... Justice=Stupidity. As far as you're concerned.

or, to put it another way

"Don't expect us to actually do anything because we're cowards."

Originally posted by threewisemonkeys
...
So... Justice=Stupidity. As far as you're concerned.

or, to put it another way

"Don't expect us to actually do anything because we're cowards."

edit on 11-6-2013 by threewisemonkeys because: (no reason given)

You're reading too much into it. I didn't really comment on Obama's guilt or the accusations against him. What I said was that our politicians are not that stupid to cause an International incident - especially not with America. South Africa is hardly the strongest nation (in terms of Economy or Military) in the world. We would get our asses kicked all across sub-Saharan Africa if we poked the US with a stick. As a matter of fact very few nations would dare to arrest the President of the US. The US is a superpower - it's simple fact. Kim Jong-un may be someone that would try something like arresting the US president. And I think we can all agree that he is an idiot of the single digit IQ range.

Also, the ability to pick your fights doesn't make you a coward.
Why didn't the UK, China, Australia, Canada, etc. arrest him if he is such a big criminal? They've got way more muscle than South Africa... And it's not like South Africa really has a dog in this fight, so I don't see any reason why they should bother...?

Our neighbor (Zimbabwe under the reign of Mugabe) is a playground for crimes against humanity. Our leaders weren't/isn't even bothered with that, so they are definitely not going to be bothered by what's going on in the Middle East.

Originally posted by Gemwolf
You're reading too much into it. I didn't really comment on Obama's guilt or the accusations against him. What I said was that our politicians are not that stupid to cause an International incident - especially not with America. South Africa is hardly the strongest nation (in terms of Economy or Military) in the world. We would get our asses kicked all across sub-Saharan Africa if we poked the US with a stick.

As I said;

"Don't expect us to actually do anything because we're cowards."

Originally posted by Gemwolf
As a matter of fact very few nations would dare to arrest the President of the US. The US is a superpower - it's simple fact.

And? Oh I get it. If you are rich enough and powerful enough and have a big enough peni.. er stick, then you can rape, pillage and murder whoever you like?

Someone at some point needs to make a stand. If the case is strong, it wouldn't matter how big they were or how super they thought their powers were. You'd be in the right and you'd have the rest of the world behind you.

Live on your feet or die on your knees.

If they had the right to why couldn't they
So his CP team are among the best in the world......well we don't refuel or clear your aircraft to leave and surround the air craft

SA police - 190,000 alone and they don't screw around
Then the SA armed forces.....and the Recces
I don't care how good the POTUS detail is ..........if they wanna stop em they can and will

And let's say they do ...............for war crimes
What you gonna do?
INVADE ?
Coz that's the vibe I'm getting from you .......and I thought half of you would support this
You keep wishing someone would stand up .............yet when you get a whisper of it ...USA, USA, USA

If they believe that they have some back door method of detaining this man legally ............GO FOR IT
If you think you could just stamp your feet and go invade ( like you usually do when some one does something you don't like ) you'll need first consider the legality of such intervention in international terms, UN response, global government response and the global populous response

Invade another country for detaining a politician suspected of war crimes ................when you all know he's guilty as hell, you'd rather go have a fight for national pride in Obama than see justice done

I'd much rather see the political approach and let the guy sit on the plane or in the embassy for 6 months while it gets sorted............hey ..........they love to brag how you can run the country from airforce one ........so what's the problem ?



Damn I'm a grumpy git this week sorry

Originally posted by MarioOnTheFly
reply to post by Faitheliza

 

It submitted a 600-plus page document to the Office of the National Director of Public Prosecutions on Friday asking for an investigation into Obama's involvement in the Middle East.

I wonder what is the point of this? They can't be that naive in thinking they can actually get to Obama or prosecute him ???

Only benefit I see here is raising awareness in public. Obama and the US are above any local or International law. Do they really think they can arrest him...even if he comes to South Africa? what a fantasy....

If you go into another country.. i don't care if your GOD, and they need to detain you - You are under obligation to comply with that LAW just as Obama would expect South African's to comply with OUR laws here. Obama ios not above The Law of South Africa, nor is he God as much as he likes to think he is.. let him set foot in SA and get arrested.. or better yet.. let them try to arrest him and he resists and starts a war.. thats all the American People need to impeach him as well as let him rot in a South African jail.

I'll be looking forward to this "vacation".

reply to post by EViLKoNCEPTz


Diplomatic immunity can always be revoked....
They can call it an attack against terrorism....which is what Obama is...a terrorist!!

reply to post by rangersdad


All the south africans have to do is tempt obozo's security detail with a few underage prostitutes - seems they just can't help themselves.

South Africa would be doing the US a huge favor by arresting him - can we send eric holder with him?

No one in the US seems to have the balls to arrest these criminals.

Originally posted by Happy1
reply to post by rangersdad

 

All the south africans have to do is tempt obozo's security detail with a few underage prostitutes - seems they just can't help themselves.

South Africa would be doing the US a huge favor by arresting him - can we send eric holder with him?

No one in the US seems to have the balls to arrest these criminals.

Not only Holder, lets send Pelosi, Janet Napolitano....heck all democrats that want to destroy the consitution and bill of rights!!

I think you're losing focus of the actual topic. And South Africa don't want any more bad politicians, fools, terrorists or muppets. We've got more than enough of our own. Many - our president included (take a look at Zuma's criminal history and polygamy) - of our politicians are straight out criminals, and they're walking around freely, above the law. So I wouldn't get my hopes up on them arresting other countries' problems.

Just hot air from specific organizations and individuals.

Of course SA has a relatively small minority of Muslims, some of whom are very radical, and there's a significant group in liberal academia who are anti-US and anti-Israel at all costs.

The ANC (who were themselves only been removed from the US terror list in 2008) also had historical ties with the PLO and the former Gaddafi.
However, at least officially they are part of the War on Terror, and there have been alleged renditions from SA, and questions surrounding SA's commitment seem to have become more serious with allegations of Islamist training camps in SA and restrictions on SA visas by the UK due to the corrupt and lax practices at our home affairs offices.

Cape Town (where a large part of the historical and immigrant Muslims reside) has also seen urban Islamist terror, notably with the bombing of Planet Hollywood in 1998.
This only ceased with a major crackdown on groups like Pagad and Qibla.

South Africa has seen some of the most astounding xenophobia, most recently largely against Somalians and Bangladeshis who happen to be Muslim (although economic factors rather than religious bias seem to influence this).
If a minority voice of Muslims cannot even make this a global issue, then Obama's visit is secure.
The majority of people clearly don't care much for them specifically, since they have the same rights here as other South Africans.
I think it's good however that people feel free to use the justice system democratically and attempt to show protest by legal means these days, no matter what the cause.
Perhaps because of the very behavior of some Islamists, the massive peace movement "anti-Bush" crowds of a decade past will not materialize again globally, although there will doubtlessly be some pockets of protest in SA.

In the Western Cape the debate on granting Obama the "freedom of the city" has been raging since May.
The debate here was that the DA (Democratic Alliance) was ignoring the poor, and thus the ANC felt that Obama should refuse the honor from a DA-led province.
Others counter-argued that the Western Cape was the only DA-led province in the country, and the ANC has led a long-term campaign to make it "ungovernable" (mainly through an overwhelming influx of people from the provinces spectacularly mismanaged by the ANC, like the Eastern Cape, and then sweeping them up to demand instant land, services and drastic wage increases on the winelands).

Well pooh-pooh to the Islamists and ANC radicals.
Cape Town gave the freedom of the city to Obama.
www.politicsweb.co.za...

These groups do not speak for the majority of the people, and especially to many black people Obama remains a hero, and the chances of him being arrested here are less than zero.

reply to post by Common Good

Executive privilage and diplomatic immunity. Including about 150 secret service protectors.

It will never happen. Cant....