Islam's Lie: "There Is No Compulsion In Religion" (2:256)

reply to post by wildtimes

Let's continue to try to build this bridge, eh?????

sure
i am all for bridges and i hate walls.

Originally posted by wildtimes
reply to post by logical7

 

A muslim is obliged by faith to serve in the army.

What in the hell does FAITH have to do with being a SOLDIER?

No, thank you.

Another reason not to want Islam as the "one global religion." The armed forces of the US are volunteer - people are PAID to be IN THEM - and get benefits from it (or used to), plus Veterans Affairs takes care of them for life - another branch of the military/government.

I object to the way they use youth to kill others, and how they damage the thinking and ability to live a "normal" life.

I've seen videos of the preschoolers (little kids) dressed in fatigues and learning how to carry guns in Palestine and shouting "Death to Israel!". Sickening.

Im sure if you lived in a concentration camp your kids would be screaming awefull things too.

So you prefer that people get paid to kill other people ? What is the f differene if they gt paid or not ? Its still a crime

Abrogation. There is compulsion in religion. Islam teaches that all the infidels must convert or die. It's that simple. No religion of peace. Just hatred and war.

Originally posted by Fromabove
Abrogation. There is compulsion in religion. Islam teaches that all the infidels must convert or die. It's that simple. No religion of peace. Just hatred and war.

thank you for your clarification ! but they are killing other muslims, do not they ! I have seen many videos of how they are slaying and eating muslims !! yes, I mean the so called freedom soldiers of Syria !!!
they are followers of Yazid and Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan and they are behaving like Kharijite Partisans. they are neither muslim nor human not even animal.

When Islam was in it's golden age, for about 400 years. It was home to a society of educated and open minded Muslims. The night sky is filled with stars with Arab names and star gazing wasn't the only thing they did.
In this period they were invaded by Mongolian forces, That were so impressed by Islamic teachings and the culture they actually converted to Islam.
When they left, they took Islam back with them into Asia. I don't think you can really blame Islam.
I think that people that lived in India and Pakistan and Iran and so on, got introduced by Mongol Islamic people, that taught a peaceful way of life. Cause that was what Islam was like during these 400 years.

That's why you see so many religious cultures living together in Asia, in my opinion.

After Islamic Muslim radical fundamentalists, grabbed power, you see that these influences showing up in Asia.
It's probably one of the reasons, that there is so much fighting, and conflict going on within Islam.

Turkey is a country with a majority of Muslims, yet it has a secular government. The country has never been ruled by Arabian Muslims, but by their own Sultans.
The reasons they had for conflict with Christians, is because the Ottoman empire, invaded Christian territory.

Before Istanbul got it's name, Constantinople was already attacked by Vatican rulers, because they wanted to bring back the wealth of Rome, that perished when Constantinople became the dominant Roman city.
After that it was an easy catch for the Sultans to take over the city.

The reasons for these event have never been, religious, but financial control by origin. Religion has been used as a tool, to reach this goal.

Russia is home to the largest population of Muslims. You probably never hear about that.

reply to post by ArtooDetoo

So you prefer that people get paid to kill other people ? What is the f differene if they gt paid or not ? Its still a crime

I've already stated that war is wrong. You're late to the conversation. Go back a few pages or a few threads regarding Islam to learn more about my views.

reply to post by Sinter Klaas

great post but there are some points.

In this period they were invaded by Mongolian forces, That were so impressed by Islamic teachings and the culture they actually converted to Islam.
When they left, they took Islam back with them into Asia. I don't think you can really blame Islam.
I think the people that lived in India and Pakistan and Iran and so on, got introduced by Mongol Islamic people, that taught a peaceful way of life. Cause that was what Islam was like during these 400 years.

Mongolian forces were never peaceful. they stopped the Islamic civilization. they attacked many parts of Asia and Europe. and about their interaction with Islamic world, I should insist that the Islamic civilization did include many nations Arabs, Indians, Iranians. so India, Iran, Pakistan were part of Islamic world. they were muslims. the point is that the Islamic world influenced the barbaric Mongolians, they got solved in Islamic civilization and they became muslim.

The reasons for these event have never been, religious, but financial control by origin. Religion has been used as a tool, to reach this goal.

exactly, Islam never recognizes monarchies like Ottomans, or even nowadays arab monarchies. the concept of Caliphate which was somehow popular governing changed to inheritable monarchies by corrupted dictators like Muawiya ibn Abi Sufyan and it continued.
monotheistic religions do not let people to live under humiliation. like Moses who stood against Pharaoh and Jesus who stood against corrupted leaders of Israel (tribe) and like Muhammad who stood against elites of Mecca.
most of complains about Islam or Christianity is simply because of corrupted monarchies so it is not related to nations or monotheistic religions. nations and monotheistic religions are themselves, victims.

reply to post by maes2


Well they didn't get to be a force for doing nothing...

Thank you

Here,s a nice link on Islamic history. The Golden age and the Mongols are represented in it.
Very interesting.
www.islamicstudies.info...

I could have googled, first. These Mongolians were pretty successful.

reply to post by dougie6665

These comments are not meant to be personal to anyone on this forum. Rather, they are an expression of a different view point based on logic rather than reliance on ancient and ambiguous texts that other than identifying some historical figures, have never been a reliable predictor of world events as they purport to be or as true believe purport them to be.

believing in God is based on logic not divine books. this is a big mistake of people who think that they believe in God according to Bible or Koran. this is a big mistake. I respect Christianity, but those who read some
Gospels in order to believe in God, then they may conclude that Jesus is God ! by this word they are oppressing their wisdom. monotheism is purely rational.

Or at least not a God that demands obedience of a race on a small planet that is a pinpoint in a massive universe.

all the universe is obeying God, gravity is a law of God ! do not get me wrong. your questions are questions of many people, me and even those who call themselves religious. my answer is, I need to obey him ! this is what I know. but knowledge is different from implementing. submission to God. I know it is an odd word. even for those who are living in societies full of religious thoughts. but is not love some sort of slavery ! I do believe in the true love and I feel it is some kind of freedom. as this poet says :
“Openly I admit, with much joy and such glee;
Enslaved to your love, from both worlds I am free.
As a bird of Paradise, to parting I did agree
Fell in the trap of life and worldly tragedy.
I was an angel; I resided in the heavens;
Renovation of the world – the mission given to me.
The nymphs of paradise, the cool ponds and the tree
In the hope of union, swiftly left my memory.
On the tablet of my heart, inscribed from a to z
It is all about you. I can’t see other than thee.
No soothsayer foretold of my exit or entry
O Lord, this journey, why did you for me decree?
I am but a slave of the Tavern of Love
Each moment, a new pain becomes my new remedy.
If my bleeding heart pours out of my tearful eyes
It’s just, I deserve; why to others I make my plea?
Wipe away Hafez’s tears with your hands so he can see
Or else, this flood brings all of us to our knee.” -Hafez

there are and were people who were and are lovers !

Let me put it this way to you, in Christianity, Romans 3:25: "unto eternal life through Jesus Christ. is the basic tenant of Christianity. It is logical to all Christians that believing in Jesus is the path to eternal life and all others are damned to burn in hell.

yes some Jews think that non_Jews are in hell, the same is true about Christians and Muslims. but we know that God is the most merciful and justest so even if it is written in divine books this is about a logical law !
any claim can be wrong or right. if someone knows that a claim is definitely right and he is ignoring the truth and insisting on wrong, he deserves punishment, does not him ! such punishments are for corrupted leaders, those who know the truth but mislead people. if God wanted to kill non_muslims or non_Christians, he could do it far more better than humanity !!! divine books are not enough.

I can not perceive how can those who call themselves religion researcher, ignore the vivid path of monotheism through out history. they want to mix monotheism and Superstitions, they behave like corrupted clerics.

1: God exists
because something can not be created by nothing !
order can not be created by disorder !! it needs someone in order to guide it to order.
2: God is one
God is the ultimate of all goodnesses. the most merciful, the most compassionate,..... unless there is no reason that I worship him ! is it possible that we have many ultimates !!
moreover we choose only one president in election not many ! is not God the wisest. so how can such great order have many leaders. many Gods !
3: last day should exist, unless where we should seek the ultimate justice !

these were just some of my thoughts, I would be glad that you debunk them, then I can think more !!!
finally, I suggest that you read this debate, deny ignorance please, just pay attention to the logic.
evans-experientialism.freewebspace.com...

Islam kills...........................WRONG!

Humans kill. Allah is the most merciful, humans can be prideful, lazy, envious, gluttonous, lustful, wrathful and greedy. We all have free will and can decide to follow or not. Allah didn't create robots, he created man who has the power of deciding what to do.

Those who are christian and have killed did not listen to God.
Those who say they are Jewish and have killed did not listen to God.
Those who are Muslims and killed did not listen to God.

Stop trying to demonize religion based on a few bad apples. You don't hear about the good ones because your not looking for them. Seek and ye shall find.

Well apparently hitting the "subscribe" button does not put this thread on my subscribed list so I'm having to post before I'm ready. Will be back (hopefully with something cogent) when I've finished reading the thread.

Nope, nothing to add. Great op, s&f!

Its clear early Muslims tolerated Christians and Jews—People of the Book.
All one has to do is follow the numerous periods in history, such as Moorish Spain, or even many of the Iranian and Turkic dynasties who were tolerant of other faiths.

That said it is also true that often leaders in Islam have interpreted their faith another way and imposed it on others.

But the point is there is absolutely no universal way this subject has been dealt with by Muslims.

Many Muslin dynasties were tolerant based on their interpretation of the Quran and some others were intolerant based on the extreme interpretation.

The good thing about Islam is that there is no universal one way of doing anything.

On the other hand the Catholic Church dogma was the ONLY way for millions of Christians until the reformation, and they were absolutely intolerant up until modern times. Just look at how the Spanish during Columbus times dealt with non Christians compared to how the Muslim Moorish empire did and that tells you everything you need to know.

People will always pervert religion, it has always been done and it will always be done as long as human beings are the operand of religion.

Some religious people like monks and Sufis, monks who are Christians are perfectly peaceful and would never kill people because of their faith or force others into their faith as the Catholics genocided the Cathars.

Also Sufis, who are Muslims, would never kill someone for their faith or force them into their own belief system.

So when the op talks of Islam, whose version of Islam is he referring to?

I know thousands of Muslims and not one I know or have ever known would force someone to believe Islam.

Though there certainly are maniacs such as the BOKO haram, Taliban, and “Al Qaeda” who would do that but I can show you Muslims who denounce this.

So for you to paint ALL Muslims in one bag is nonsense and a lie.

a reply to: Willtell
wars of prophet of Islam were defensive. against the elites of Mecca. He entered Mecca peacefully as it is predicted in Torah. maybe near 1000 persons were killed including muslims and enemies.
But liberal democracy is based on blood of millions and millions of humanity. The funny point is that they say Prophet of Islam was a killer !
after prophet of Islam, the caliphs may not be able to behave like prophet of Islam accurately. especially after Muawiah many things changed. Like Paul who opposed Saint Peter and he changed teachings of Jesus in Christianity. despite all of these still muslims could show another side of the coin to the world and they could change the world to the new age !