The Real Death Star

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Indications of WR 104 is that it is close to the end of it's life. They think that (from the 8000 year old light we are seeing) from what they are seeing, it will die very soon. Could be today or 100 years from now.

So I don't understand how they could ever give a number. Looking at something 8,000 yrs.in the past they could never predict a time such as now-100 years from now, that makes no sense to me? So why even try giving a number?

Unless that is there is more they know, information that is not being shared. Something that has caused a rush to create genetically engineered foods that can survive something and storage of such seeds also.

As for the conspiracy theory there.....well I can't argue against it as I can't give you any proof opposing what you are saying.

But for as how do they know about stars dying:

There is a lot more to it than what I'm about to post, and a person could create a very long OP or even write a book (people have) on Stellar Evolution, but I'll try to give a brief idea here:

Our current theories on how stars work is that hydrogen is being fused at a star's core. It fuses it into helium. Our star, along with many stars today have more than just Hydrogen in them as they are what we call Generation II stars, and contain heavier elements than Hydrogen. However, Hydrogen is what makes up the bulk of the star.

Eventually the star runs out of hydrogen to fuse into helium, and that is what it starts to fuse. instead is that helium. at this point the star has expanded into a red giant because of all that helium it now has. So now the star is creating Carbon and Oxygen out of that helium by fusing it.

Again, eventually the star will no longer be able to fuse anymore helium as it runs out of it and begins fusing the carbon and oxygen.....the star will keep fusing elements until it get's to iron.

Iron does not like to be fused the way a star's core works using fusion, so when enough iron builds up, the fusion process stops. When that happens, gravity takes over and the star collapses in on itself.

Depending on how big the star was, it could do one of several things: if it was the size of our sun, it will just "out gas" and form a planetary nebula (no novas). If the star was really big, it can cause a supernova and leave behind something like a neutron star.
If it was really, really, REALLY big, it will become like a hypernova and form a collapsar or black hole.

So there are many things astronomers can look at: spectrum analysis can show how much of what elements are in a star. They can watch and measure a star's diameter and see if it's expanding or shrinking.

If you check the link I provided for stellar evolution, there are other signs that they look for, like activity that the star shows.

Originally posted by CryHavoc

Originally posted by eriktheawful
You and every living thing on the Earth were just blasted with a large amount of gamma rays. These gamma rays are bad to living organisms because, the keep cells from reproducing. This includes your intestines. You're ability to absorb food is going to stop.

Worst case? Only microbes deep in the Earth will survive this.

Except there's just one thing wrong with that scenario. Just as only half of the planet gets bathed in sunlight at a time, then only half of the planet would be affected by this gamma-ray burster. The half of the Earth facing the star when it's corona-wave reaches Earth. The other side of Earth wouldn't be affected at all except for the aftermath. The bulk of the Earth would block the gamma-rays from getting to the 'dark side of Earth' - the side away from the blast.

People always forget that in these 'doomsday scenarios'.

You are correct.....IF the long GRB lasts only 2 seconds to a few hours.

However, as I stated in a post on the last page......we detected a GRB that lasted 2 1/2 months. Plenty of time for the other half of our world to get bathed in.

Of course it looks like that was a unique event and not the norm.

Originally posted by justwokeup
The duration of the blast seems to be small enough that only the side of the planet immediately facing the blast wave at the point of arrival would perish. If thats true, while horrendous, it wouldn't necessarily be a total extinction event?

That's what I was thinking.

If you can go deep underground to escape it, surely you would be ok if you were in the other side of the planet when these rays strike.

reply to post by eriktheawful

As for the conspiracy theory there.....well I can't argue against it as I can't give you any proof opposing what you are saying.

I don't really consider it a conspiracy theory, I think maybe it would be prudent not to tell everyone everything if there were more knowledge that were are aware of.

So there are many things astronomers can look at: spectrum analysis can show how much of what elements are in a star. They can watch and measure a star's diameter and see if it's expanding or shrinking. If you check the link I provided for stellar evolution, there are other signs that they look for, like activity that the star shows.

So if they give a time "guesstimate' it would be because they already saw the signs of the stars demise 8,000 years ago and they then calculate what process would bring it to end in 0-100 years? That seems like a lot more knowledge then they should have, unless their abilities and the knowledge and information is far more then we know of.

Cern experiments and particle research I don't doubt that they do in fact have more abilities and knowledge than we are aware of.

reply to post by eriktheawful


Thanks for that.

Hopefully, they're wrong in the estimates given, and it'll be 100,000 years or more before it goes boom.

That or it's facing away from us when it does.

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

So there are many things astronomers can look at: spectrum analysis can show how much of what elements are in a star. They can watch and measure a star's diameter and see if it's expanding or shrinking. If you check the link I provided for stellar evolution, there are other signs that they look for, like activity that the star shows.

So if they give a time "guesstimate' it would be because they already saw the signs of the stars demise 8,000 years ago and they then calculate what process would bring it to end in 0-100 years? That seems like a lot more knowledge then they should have, unless their abilities and the knowledge and information is far more then we know of.

Cern experiments and particle research I don't doubt that they do in fact have more abilities and knowledge than we are aware of.

Okay, I guess I'm not explaining it correctly.

When we look at that star.....we are seeing how it was 8,000 years ago. Because it's 8,000 light years away.

Hrmmmm......

Okay, you know we've had radio for a long time, right? About 110 years.

That's how far away those radio ways would be, 110 light years.

Let's say there are aliens on a planet that is in orbit around Sirius which is just over 8 light years away. If they were intelligent and advanced enough, they could be looking back at us here on Earth. If they use radio receivers, they will be hearing whatever was broadcasted 8 years ago on radio. They would be seeing whatever was on TV 8 years ago. So right now, they would be seeing news and would think George W. Bush is the president because those radio and TV signals are 8 years old and that would be 2005.

If they had some super telescope that would let them see our planet in detail, they would be seeing what the Earth looked like back in 2005.

If our planet were to blow up today.......aliens at Sirius would not see it for 8 years.

I'm not sure how I can explain it any other way.

A thousand years is enough to overcome all of this technologically.

But can we overcome ourselves in just 10?

Originally posted by MysterX
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

Thanks for that.

Hopefully, they're wrong in the estimates given, and it'll be 100,000 years or more before it goes boom.

That or it's facing away from us when it does.

I'm banking on it's facing away from us.

Like I said in my OP, the latest measurements show the spin axial to be pointing 30 to 40 degrees away from us. So that's good.

And if that's the case, then I hope id does blow tomorrow.....just to see a hypernova.

Of course knowing my luck, it will be over cast or I'll be on the wrong side of the planet!

Even if you "survived" a GRB, by hunkering deep down underground or something, when you resurface you would not survive for long.

First off, all the nuclear reactors and toxic chemical plants in the world would suddenly find themselves unmanned. Now, some reactors might get safely shut down by their automated safety systems, but many would not. Many would go into full meltdown, releasing nuclear waste into the atmosphere in a way that would make Fukushima look like walk in the park.

The reactors and toxic plants that don't immediately destroy themselves in some epic explosion would slowly, over the following years begin to rust, corrode, and fall apart, eventually releasting untold amounts of highly toxic chemicals and radioactive waste into the atmosphere and fresh water supply.

Speaking of the atmosphere, with all plant, animal, and bacterial life destroyed by the GRB, the entire ecosystem would cease to function, the atmosphere would begin to change, the air become unbreathable. The climate and weather would become alien to us. With out phytoplankton in the Oceans able to convert the solar energy into biomass, the oceans would begin to heat up very rapidly, resulting in the global hydrothermic conveyor belt drastically changing. With so much more energy available to the atmosphere from the warming oceans, violent weather would increase in severity and frequency. Living on the earth's surface would become precarious, to say the least.

Psychologically, it would be devasting to see dead people and animals everywhere. You see, in this post-GRB world with no bacteria or fungi, dead bodies would not rot; they would stay around indefinitely. It would be a world of "living" dead. Perhaps over the decades the bacteria you reintroduced to the world by surviving would multiply and spread across the world, eventually reintroducing decay to dead corpses, but you wouldn't live long enough to enjoy that benefit.

If you or your people managed to plant food with the help of additional bacteria you saved prior to the GRB, the toxic, radioactive, unlivable weather would eventually kill you.

Game over.

Great thread,

site that tracks GRB's

I was just thinking, what if that star blew up 7,999.9 years ago and we only had a day or 2 left before it hits us?

reply to post by Cryptonomicon


As good an argument to ban nuclear reactors, at least in their current form as any. Just too dangerous when something goes awry.

Now, Thorium reactors...that's another story. They don't go boom and use nuclear waste as fuel.

MUCH safer form of nuclear energy.

Originally posted by eriktheawful

Originally posted by Char-Lee
reply to post by eriktheawful

 

So there are many things astronomers can look at: spectrum analysis can show how much of what elements are in a star. They can watch and measure a star's diameter and see if it's expanding or shrinking. If you check the link I provided for stellar evolution, there are other signs that they look for, like activity that the star shows.

So if they give a time "guesstimate' it would be because they already saw the signs of the stars demise 8,000 years ago and they then calculate what process would bring it to end in 0-100 years? That seems like a lot more knowledge then they should have, unless their abilities and the knowledge and information is far more then we know of.

Cern experiments and particle research I don't doubt that they do in fact have more abilities and knowledge than we are aware of.

Okay, I guess I'm not explaining it correctly.

When we look at that star.....we are seeing how it was 8,000 years ago. Because it's 8,000 light years away.

Hrmmmm......

Okay, you know we've had radio for a long time, right? About 110 years.

That's how far away those radio ways would be, 110 light years.

Let's say there are aliens on a planet that is in orbit around Sirius which is just over 8 light years away. If they were intelligent and advanced enough, they could be looking back at us here on Earth. If they use radio receivers, they will be hearing whatever was broadcasted 8 years ago on radio. They would be seeing whatever was on TV 8 years ago. So right now, they would be seeing news and would think George W. Bush is the president because those radio and TV signals are 8 years old and that would be 2005.

If they had some super telescope that would let them see our planet in detail, they would be seeing what the Earth looked like back in 2005.

If our planet were to blow up today.......aliens at Sirius would not see it for 8 years.

I'm not sure how I can explain it any other way.

You explained it perfectly the first time in the OP, I guess you did not understand what I was trying to say. We are talking about looking at the past and not the present. I guess I will not try rewording, thanks though great thread.

Originally posted by Signals
Great thread,

site that tracks GRB's

I was just thinking, what if that star blew up 7,999.9 years ago and we only had a day or 2 left before it hits us?

I think we would've known already, since all those earth telescopes pointing at deep space are actually looking into past.

Originally posted by zilebeliveunknown

Originally posted by Signals
Great thread,

site that tracks GRB's

I was just thinking, what if that star blew up 7,999.9 years ago and we only had a day or 2 left before it hits us?

I think we would've known already, since all those earth telescopes pointing at deep space are actually looking into past.

No. We do not know what happened at a location that is 7,999.9 light years away until the radiation (light, x-rays, gamma rays, etc.) reaches earth. We do not know what is coming at the speed of light until it arrives. For your theory to work there would have to be some type of information which gets here faster than the speed of light.

reply to post by dubiousone

Yup, I stand corrected.
Thx for clarification.

I guess the actual gamma rays always gets delayed than the light from the supernova so we do get the window of few years that is because we will be surely get alerted by the explosion. Plus the Nuclear warhead shelters will be good enough for us to survive and most of the governments have made plenty of them so the Human race most probably will not end there.

Originally posted by konig
I guess the actual gamma rays always gets delayed than the light from the supernova so we do get the window of few years that is because we will be surely get alerted by the explosion. Plus the Nuclear warhead shelters will be good enough for us to survive and most of the governments have made plenty of them so the Human race most probably will not end there.

I agree with you that the human race will most likely not end, at least not from WR 104, it's because recent observations show that it's not pointing it's barrel at us.

However, the gamma rays would arrive at the same time as the visible light. Gamma rays are electromagnetic energy just like light, just at a higher frequency and they travel as fast as light does.

Infrared, visible light, ultraviolet, radio waves, TV signals, Satellite signals, Radar (aka microwave), X-rays and Gamma rays are all electromagnetic energy and all of them travel at 186,000 miles per second in a vacuum.

Its my understanding that once bathed with gamma radiation,
I would not be able to contain my anger and I would grow large and green

Originally posted by konig
I guess the actual gamma rays always gets delayed than the light from the supernova so we do get the window of few years that is because we will be surely get alerted by the explosion. Plus the Nuclear warhead shelters will be good enough for us to survive and most of the governments have made plenty of them so the Human race most probably will not end there.

No, all electromagnetic radiation (gamma rays and visible light) travel at the same speed. The moment we see the explosion is the moment we start getting irradiated.

I would like to point out that dinosaurs were here for 180 million years. That's a hell of a long time to reign the earth without being interrupted or destroyed. Stuff happens in the universe but I see no reason to sit around ruminating about it all constantly.