UFOlogy a joke again?

reply to post by mbkennel


I slept on it and have to add a postscript to my last post.

I said that they have stopped n my last post, but I realize that that is not 100% true. They have backed off a lot, but they did do a couple of small things yesterday. Someone with the initials M.B. said a few things yesterday to me which indicate that these people are still doing their thing, just trying to do it on the sly. So to them, let me be clear:
any indication of your presence in my life that I notice, however small, I consider a burn. Every burn will be met by me with a release of more information. To the groups who don't want this information coming out. You need to do whatever it takes to stop the groups who are attacking me. I know you can, so don't try to B S me. Whatever lies have been spread need to be quashed, whatever power and authority the lower groups have been given needs to be rescinded regarding me.

It is working guys, but not to my satisfaction. So keep reading my posts, and tell others to read them as well. The more people are reading my posts, the more trouble it makes for them.

As for the few burns yesterday; I will give a few more clues in direct response to what M.B. said to me and/or in my presence yesterday. Here they are:

1) The drive can be used to run a generator with a net positive output. Imagine a power company being able to build a hoover dam wherever they wanted to. A small one could power a home or neighborhood. This set up would include a long tube that would capture the energy in strokes. The tube would have to be able to move or rotate to ensure safe operation throughout the day and year. (Ouch!)

2) The drive pushes against something that is part of the drive itself. Instead of pushing against the ground or the air, the drive actually pushes against itself in such a way as to levitate.

3) The drive redirects the pull of gravity. (Ouch! Are you getting nervous now?)

Do I have to say it again Black Ops people? Shut it down completely. I don't want to hear a single thing from these people that I recognize. I don't want anyone spoken to about me ever again except for you telling them you were wrong about me. (I don't expect you to admit that you lied.)

Peace to the rest of you and keep reading.

Originally posted by orangegemstone
1) The drive can be used to run a generator with a net positive output. Imagine a power company being able to build a hoover dam wherever they wanted to. A small one could power a home or neighborhood. This set up would include a long tube that would capture the energy in strokes. The tube would have to be able to move or rotate to ensure safe operation throughout the day and year. (Ouch!)

Interaction with Sun/Moon/tidal influences? What provides the net energy.

2) The drive pushes against something that is part of the drive itself. Instead of pushing against the ground or the air, the drive actually pushes against itself in such a way as to levitate.

Sounds sort of gyroscopic but a free gyroscope falls just like any other rock, changing only torques inside.

3) The drive redirects the pull of gravity. (Ouch! Are you getting nervous now?)

Does it work far from Earth/Moon system?

Do I have to say it again Black Ops people? Shut it down completely. I don't want to hear a single thing from these people that I recognize. I don't want anyone spoken to about me ever again except for you telling them you were wrong about me. (I don't expect you to admit that you lied.)

Why is it so important to be kept secret? Why not get many years of industrial capability? At a minimum US Army & Airforce spend untold billions humping distilled petroleum from here to there.

North Korea still can't build a rocket or jet engine as well as Boeing and Rocketdyne.

reply to post by mbkennel


I wrote this long reply, but got booted offline just before I posted it. I take it that's a sign that someone doesn't want me to respond to your post.

Look over the posts I've left so far on all threads and the posts I was responding to. The reason they move should be clear to you, but not how they achieve it. I'll keep trolling on here and let you know more if I"m burned again. For now I'm being left alone which is all I want. Peace to you and keep looking up.

reply to post by mbkennel


To the Black Ops people who are paid to keep this under wraps: I spoke a little too soon. While the headlight thing stopped(everyone in town suddenly got their headlights fixed on the same day-LOL), there were a few minor burns today. My Father may have done one and two from some people at work. The ones from work were referencing something from before where I was told that I would have a good day, meaning no burns that day. This reference was done by 2 different people, one has the initials M.B. While these burns were very minor, it does mean that they are still in my life. Let me be clear; these people need to to stop 100% in order for me to not release the info. That doesn't mean that they can still micromanage every aspect of my life, but a little nicer. It means they are gone from my life and I am managing my life, not them.

Perhaps they thought that you guys wouldn't notice them doing these subtle burns. Perhaps they were told to stop and think they can still slip some burns by you. We both know why that isn't so, but they don't know it. So let them know that this isn't going to fly.

Due to the burns today I am going to respond to this thread and give some more details.

Now back to our conversation. Yes they work in space away from the solar system. Gyroscopes do fall, but this does more than that. It should be kept secret as it can be used in warfare.

Now for a fact that I'm giving in direct response to the burns, however light, that I received today: The ships do not increase their speed when they move at all. What you are seeing when they move is the result of the Earth moving away from the ship as the ship breaks from our orbit. This is why the inertia issue is moot. They are not suddenly going 1000 MPH, we are all going that fast together as we rotate with the Earth. When an object stops rotating with the Earth it flies in a straight line from the point where it stopped. It's own momentum that it already has keeps it moving.

The same is true for our orbit around the Sun. A "UFO", when it cuts the effect of Earth's gravity on it, continues to orbit the Sun, but in it's own orbit. Being of a less mass than the Earth, it's orbit has a very long slope or curve to it making it's flight path appear to be a straight line from our point of view on the ground. We orbit the Sun at about 29,000 MPH, so you can imagine that a flying saucer suddenly zipping off at 10,000 MPH from a 'dead stop' is nothing to them. It's already going 29,000 MPH around the Sun. All that happened is it broke from OUR orbit. There are more details about this we can discuss, but this is why they "move" relative to us on the ground.

UFO's are real. End of story.

Originally posted by orangegemstone
reply to post by mbkennel

Now back to our conversation. Yes they work in space away from the solar system. Gyroscopes do fall, but this does more than that. It should be kept secret as it can be used in warfare.

So can jet engines and radios. Fortunately, we don't have to all ride horses and breed high-performance carrier pigeons for our networks just because somebody might figure out how to use a turbine to fly into buildings or detonate a bomb with a radio.

If any of this stuff is real, it has accomplished absolutely nothing valuable for humanity. Or even, viewing narrowly the US government. It has been able to exert no useful power, gain no useful prestige, prosperity, deterrence or even intimidation.

Now for a fact that I'm giving in direct response to the burns, however light, that I received today: The ships do not increase their speed when they move at all. What you are seeing when they move is the result of the Earth moving away from the ship as the ship breaks from our orbit. This is why the inertia issue is moot. They are not suddenly going 1000 MPH, we are all going that fast together as we rotate with the Earth. When an object stops rotating with the Earth it flies in a straight line from the point where it stopped.It's own momentum that it already has keeps it moving.

How is inertia moot? You still have all the angular momentum of rotating with the Earth. Getting rid of that means applying forces and resistance to forces is inertia.

The same is true for our orbit around the Sun. A "UFO", when it cuts the effect of Earth's gravity on it, continues to orbit the Sun, but in it's own orbit.

Still makes no sense.

How do you "cut the effect of Earth's gravity" and not that of the Sun? Can you "turn off" the Sun too and for free start rotating around the black hole in the galactic core? (Watch out for relativistic interstellar dust!)

And if it were possible, at what cost of energy, you are in a lower energy state being in the Earth's gravity well. To escape Earths' gravity well you need lots of energy which is why interplanetary probes are launched from large rockets. If you just 'turn it off' as a switch where does the energy come from?

Being of a less mass than the Earth, it's orbit has a very long slope or curve to it making it's flight path appear to be a straight line from our point of view on the ground.

??? Orbits are independent of mass. Velocity & momentum matters.

We orbit the Sun at about 29,000 MPH, so you can imagine that a flying saucer suddenly zipping off at 10,000 MPH from a 'dead stop' is nothing to them. It's already going 29,000 MPH around the Sun. All that happened is it broke from OUR orbit. There are more details about this we can discuss, but this is why they "move" relative to us on the ground.

sorry still makes no sense as physics

Originally posted by mbkennel

Originally posted by orangegemstone
reply to post by mbkennel

Okay. I'll take these one at a time, but I'm not giving any more new information. The harassment against me has stopped dead in it's tracks and I love it. Thank you to those who have taken up my case.

About it;s use in warfare:

So can jet engines and radios. Fortunately, we don't have to all ride horses and breed high-performance carrier pigeons for our networks just because somebody might figure out how to use a turbine to fly into buildings or detonate a bomb with a radio.

Yeah, but imagine if an army had been able to keep all other armies from discovering gunpowder or how to build a nuke. We did postpone that for a while. These things can outrun all existing jets. How is that not a valuable tool that you would want to keep out of the hands of your enemies?

If any of this stuff is real, it has accomplished absolutely nothing valuable for humanity. Or even, viewing narrowly the US government. It has been able to exert no useful power, gain no useful prestige, prosperity, deterrence or even intimidation.

We don't really know that for sure. For all we know it has been disclosed behind closed doors and used in just this way. As far as being valuable for humanity-who knows. I doubt that the group working with this technology even thinks about that at all.

How is inertia moot? You still have all the angular momentum of rotating with the Earth. Getting rid of that means applying forces and resistance to forces is inertia.

The idea that the sudden acceleration and sharp turns at high speed would break the pilots neck is what's moot, because the ship isn't accelerating.

They don't get rid of the momentum. Swing a ball on a string around your head til it is sticking out straight and then let go. That what these things are doing. The ball is the saucer, the string is gravity, and you are the Earth.

How do you "cut the effect of Earth's gravity" and not that of the Sun? Can you "turn off" the Sun too and for free start rotating around the black hole in the galactic core? (Watch out for relativistic interstellar dust!)

Yes, they can cut off the effect of just the Earth or of everything. The latter is done with what I call an Interstellar drive. When they make sharp turns they are cutting off another source of gravity on them and thus altering their path through space.

And if it were possible, at what cost of energy, you are in a lower energy state being in the Earth's gravity well. To escape Earths' gravity well you need lots of energy which is why interplanetary probes are launched from large rockets. If you just 'turn it off' as a switch where does the energy come from?

I told you that I'm not going to tell you how it's done unless they keep bothering me and they have now let me alone. They are not escaping Earth's gravity in the way you are thinking. Gravity continues to pull on the craft, but the craft ceases to respond to that gravity. If you are not being pulled anymore, then you do not need to worry about using all that energy.

I said and you quoted: 'Being of a less mass than the Earth, it's orbit has a very long slope or curve to it making it's flight path appear to be a straight line from our point of view on the ground.'

??? Orbits are independent of mass. Velocity & momentum matters.

Gravity pulls higher mass objects with more force. And those object pulls back with more force than an object with less mass. They don't accelerate faster as we all know, but they do hit the ground with more force. The result is that two objects of the same size and same distance from the sun traveling at the same speed but one with a much higher mass than the other will have different orbits. If I am wrong, please correct me, however even if I am, once gravity from the Earth is not effecting one object, it's path changes in space. It no longer rotates with the Earth like we do on the surface. So we travel in a curve around the Earth, but the saucer goes straight, or actually it continues to orbit the Sun but doesn't rotate around the Earth anymore. Either way, to people on the ground it appears to zip off really fast.

reply to post by SloAnPainful


That was exactly my thoughts. Too many like Greer and Hoagland have taken an already touchy subject and went crazy with it. Made any and every investigation look bad, just because of their desire for money and attention. There are so many loonies out there, with their cloud ships, Ashtar Command, CGI Youtube videos and the like, that if any credible evidence is brought up, it's immediately trashed. Too many looking for fame and fortune and not enough looking for the truth.

Reading this thread, it's not hard to see why UFOlogy is a joke again.

But then... was it ever not a joke?

reply to post by orangegemstone


You are just begging for someone to ask about your situation. Or what you believe is your situation. If you have actual proof of knowledge concerning how UFOs fly, you owe it to humanity to reveal it. If it could be used for free/cheap energy, you could save Earth and it's people a lot of misery. Otherwise, you're just playing Look At Me!!!!!

reply to post by DAVID64


Firstly, I would like to apologize for my failure to figure out how to use the quote feature on here. That last post of mine is hard to read and I'm too lazy to fix it. No I'm not going to tell you what my situation is. I write about that only to identify why I am giving out new information when I do, for those people who already know my situation to see.

I don't care if you believe me or not and I don't want some kind of fame on here or whatever.

I don't owe anything to humanity. At this point it's quite the opposite.

The device is dangerous and you should not know how it works. If an enemy of the United States had this, they could drop off a nuke over any city and be gone before we even knew they were coming.

Yes, you can use it to drive a power generator on the ground. And that would do what for the oil backed economy? Crash it. If they ever convert to this, they have to do it slowly so as to protect you and your family from economic devastation.

Originally posted by orangegemstone
reply to post by DAVID64

 

Firstly, I would like to apologize for my failure to figure out how to use the quote feature on here. That last post of mine is hard to read and I'm too lazy to fix it. No I'm not going to tell you what my situation is. I write about that only to identify why I am giving out new information when I do, for those people who already know my situation to see.

I don't care if you believe me or not and I don't want some kind of fame on here or whatever.

I don't owe anything to humanity. At this point it's quite the opposite.

The device is dangerous and you should not know how it works. If an enemy of the United States had this, they could drop off a nuke over any city and be gone before we even knew they were coming.

And vice versa. And if an airplane with magic unicorn physics can fly fast a SAM with magic unicorn physics can do the same, but faster.

The situation isn't much different from an ICBM, which is undefendable. Even though a number of nations can launch ICBMs against one another already, they don't.

The economic advantages to air travel would be tremendous and benefit the USA enormously.

Yes, you can use it to drive a power generator on the ground. And that would do what for the oil backed economy? Crash it. If they ever convert to this, they have to do it slowly so as to protect you and your family from economic devastation.

Quite to the contrary, it would be awesome.

Petroleum is still useful and needed for mobile transportation and chemicals. There would be demand for many decades no matter what. Stationary, capital intensive power generation is a competitor to nuclear fission and coal plants only. It would take still decades to convert because of capital financing but it would be a good thing to reduce pollution and see coal and fission be obsoleted.

No economy would crash in the slightest.

reply to post by mbkennel


You might be right about all of that. But "magic unicorn physics"? Not sure what you mean there except that you are skeptical. I don't blame you for that. I started my own thread and got a rash of the most immature replies that I've seen in a while. I hope that we can continue our conversation in a non hostile manner. At first you seemed to me to be interested in what I have to say. That was cool and we had some good posts.

To recap, the drive in the craft is able to prevent itself from moving in response to gravity. That includes rotation around the Earth. They can do this completely, or they can allow a very small amount of the mass of the object to be pulled as if as light as air. That's when they hover. When they deny even that amount of pull, then they are not rotating with the Earth anymore. At that point they continue to move in the direction that they were at the moment they denied gravity to pull them. This is a straight line as they break from their circular path around the Earth. They are still moving at the same speed that they were when they were rotating with the Earth as they still have that momentum. Someone on the ground looking at the ship will perceive it to move up and Westward as they curve away from the ship.

reply to post by orangegemstone

Your going on about a lot of surmising, if you know something then say it. Or are your really scared or care what other people have to say, if that is so then that is just silly. People tend to say a lot of things, and that includes you. Now you purpose that you know how UFO's work, and you even say that they do not fly but slingshot from field of gravity to field of gravity, using a engine that can break free of the gravitational pull of the planet by exerting its own energy and own mass against itself withing a self contained field.

Well fine! sure why not! but its not only the gravity of the earth you would have to worry about and pull against but of the sun, the Moon, Mars, Jupiter, and even neighboring galaxies would have a pull albeit not dominant on your current gravity predicament. So if you break free of earths gravity you only end up slave to another major body's gravity, on earth it would be the Suns as its the one closest with the most mass and pulling all these other rocks around it ie earth and such.

Your not flying, your skipping stones on water, slingshooting from one gravity point to another or so I surmised from the few posts I read of yours, because srry you can not escape gravity's pull by exerting your own mass/energy against yourself withing some sort of field, and even if you could how would you direct it, I mean unless you would want to fly into space and directly into the sun you got to be able to direct it especially withing a atmosphere. But really get on with it, if you know something just go ahead a say it.

Because frankly even if you know all the specific details on how to make a UFO I ain't reading through pages and pages of supposed leaks in some grand information and conspiracy. Srry I got things to do...Like cut my toenails and watch cat videos. And so plz do tell what you know or what you think you know, and I for one will read it...And go! hmmm that's interesting. Or not! But in either case do go on already, and try not to take yourself to serious. In either case interesting posts and thread. And to the original questions of the thread. Who knows if UFOlogy is a joke, one thing is for sure ATS especially and these sort of sites and threads still seem to be getting lots of traffic going through them...That in itself answers some the OP's questions.

Originally posted by orangegemstone
reply to post by mbkennel

 

You might be right about all of that. But "magic unicorn physics"? Not sure what you mean there except that you are skeptical. I don't blame you for that. I started my own thread and got a rash of the most immature replies that I've seen in a while. I hope that we can continue our conversation in a non hostile manner. At first you seemed to me to be interested in what I have to say. That was cool and we had some good posts.

life is too short to make enemies on the intertubes and I won't be hostile. I like physics, but I haven't read anything concrete that makes sense as feasible/logical, and without physics the logical Bayesian posterior is more probable that you are suffering from paranoid schizophrenia, or you're a science fiction writer trying out a macguffin. (logic, not hostility)

To recap, the drive in the craft is able to prevent itself from moving in response to gravity.

Is it directional? Newtonian gravity means integrating sum G*rho(r,theta,phi)/r^2 cos(theta) integrated over all radii 'r' [0,+infinity], and angles phi [0,2pi],theta[-pi,pi], i.e. density rho() over all mass the entire sphere of all radii out to the end of the universe. Can magic 8-ball drive 'blot out' the effect over some finite patch of theta and phi so you can just turn off the Earth and not he Sun? What happens if the Earth and Sun happen to be in the same direction? What's the energy cost to turn it on and off?

That includes rotation around the Earth. They can do this completely, or they can allow a very small amount of the mass of the object to be pulled as if as light as air. That's when they hover. When they deny even that amount of pull, then they are not rotating with the Earth anymore. At that point they continue to move in the direction that they were at the moment they denied gravity to pull them. This is a straight line as they break from their circular path around the Earth. They are still moving at the same speed that they were when they were rotating with the Earth as they still have that momentum. Someone on the ground looking at the ship will perceive it to move up and Westward as they curve away from the ship.

Sure I understand that, if you can turn off gravity selectively by magic that's what would happen. If it is a cost-free switch that leads to a violation of thermodynamical laws as you could make an infinite engine out of it. Make a ferris wheel and turn off the gravity on the 'up' half of it.

Also, there presumably has to be some area of effect. What happens to the part of the stuff which is 'outside', and happens to still be influenced gravitationally? What about surrounding air? If you have a bunch of air going 25,000 mph relative to the rest of the atmosphere (what happens in the transition region) in an instant, won't that make a huge shockwave/sonic boom? How much heat generated? Where does the energy come from?

Does it influence electromagnetism? Gravitational lensing?

Turning off gravity is like apparently 'nulling' the mass which created it. Still no Star Trek warp drive, as even far from other gravitational sources the speed of light is the limit as evidenced by astrophysical observations of propagation of light and neutrinos.

What level of physics is necessary for the effect

1) Newton
2) Maxwell
3) Einstein 1905
4) Einstein 1917
5) QM 1925 (Heisenberg + Bohr) 1st quantization
6) QM 1930's Dirac 2nd quantizaoin
7) QFT 1947 (quantum field theory)
8) standard model 1960's-1990's
9) string theory / loop quantum gravity / exotica

Interesting story about UFO workings... Makes me wonder...

If gravity is a capacitance-like effect of the energy equivalent of mass or rather the energy density vs surface area... There might be a way to jimmy with it... If you can make it respond to a controlled input, one just might be able to push the inertial center of gravity aside from the mass center of gravity (or vice-versa), and that might be "fun". Likely relates to things like resonance or coherence and Bose-Einstein condensates or whatever. Still something like that needs a serious crapload of energy to make work though.

And if you could do that with a diffuse field projected through a body to offset its moment, imagine if it could instead be focused narrowly and collapse some material the size of a bb into what may be considered a few atoms worth of volume... It might not be so pleasant if you screw that up. But hey, you're getting a cheap power source as a bonus.

Now where can one get a decent-sized asymmetric super-capacitor with crystalline cubic boron-nitride dielectrics and a fresnel-like field focusing solenoid? Might be an interesting place to start.

Meh. Seriously though, I don't really know anything. But it's fun to guess at how something like that might work. If only I won the lotto and had a budget for the things to research that kind of stuff and publish it openly.

But on the main topic of UFOlogy being a joke (again), it's not taken seriously enough because it's too easy to hoax things these days (R/C aircraft with LEDs or stuff like CGI) and most pics are chips or gouges in window glass, reflections or refractions, or things like birds or bugs out of focus and blurred because of too long exposure. There might be some worthy gems out there, but 99.9% of it seems to be cruft and that's what doesn't help things. Then to make things worse you have those charlatans that sell their own pet theories in book format for only $19.95, but not revealing much that's not known already. I'm sure a lot of skeptics out there would like to see some stuff they can't rule out, but that's fairly rare.

reply to post by orangegemstone


Here is one problem I see.
You can't just "break away" from Earth's gravity and zip from A to B in any sort of relative way as it applies to being observed on the ground.

What would actually happen is the craft would b line straight up at 300 times the speed of sound. This makes zero sense. No offense. Cool story and all. Maybe you should write a book.

Just be careful not to actually listen to the voices. They are imaginary.

Also, at those speeds the human mind is incapable of processing information quickly enough to navigate. You would be like a freakin' bottle rocket without a stabilizing stick.

Impossible.

However they work, they dilate time. And I assume they operate on magnetics somehow.

reply to post by mbkennel

Inertia is not eradicated,however,it can be minimised as can the perceived mass of an occupant of an electrogravitic powered craft,the drive would essentially be two Tesla coil type motors each encased within a vacuum tube,one to provide lateral propulsion and the other for vertical propulsion,they would react with the gravitational pull of a body( i.e the earth) by producing either a negative or positive gravitational resistance,the Earth's Gravitational field produces a negative field,therefore to pull itself toward the earth it would employ a positively oriented resistance(or rather,a disimilar field orientation) or a negative to repel off the earth,the velocity of any such escapes or approaches would be determined by the charge being produced by the "Tesla" coils.

The method of achieving a perceived reduction in the mass of a body within a craft powered by the Tesla type generators,is that the very high voltages produced(in the tens of millions-but encased within a vacuum tube to protect any occupants) create an auxiliary internal gravitational field which acts upon the body(say a human weighing 90 KG)thereby dramatically negating the effects of the earth's gravity upon the human occupant,essentially "tricking" the Earth's gravitational field into perceiving the body as weighing only 10% of that it would experience whilst under the sole influence of the Earth.Thereby allowing the body to tolerate higher g forces and acceleration than at it's original,i.e Earth's gravitational field influenced state.

Originally posted by Kaone
reply to post by Kandinsky

 

Screw Greer! A man who supposedly wants to help the human race but charges LARGE sums of money to people who will never pay that amount?
Its called self responsibility and to people who understand that you don't need aliens to help planet earth.

Hear! Hear!

Not only is he a total charlatan of the highest order...

...he is a tumbling, tumbling dickweed.