Very cool USAAF Spitfire video

Great post S+F... and to the poster. The Spitfire as in all WW2 aircraft was a response to the trials, tribulations and tragedies that came with a world war. The plane is still very much a masterpiece of engineering and innovation.
Great Story OP and thank you for sharing.

Thnx for upload OP, good video here with interviews with the people that made and flew them Including Douglas Bader amongst others.

reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

The USAAF in Europe,started using the Supermarine spitfire in it's MK Vb incarnation as a fighter as they had nothing that could touch it at the time in their inventory
.It wasn't until the decision was taken to re-engine the P-51 with the Merlin (which was designed,initially to take the Allison V-12 inline engine) with Packard built Merlin engines,which were coming off the Packard production lines at an enormous rate,the contract to build Merlin;s was given to Packard by Lord Beaverbrook,Britain's minister for aircraft production,to ensure a plentiful supply o these engines for the many RAF types that had them fitted,(for example;the Lancaster,Spitfire,Mosquito etc).
The main problem with the Spitfire,as far as the USAAF were concerned, was it's short combat radius,as the most pressing requirement was for an escort fighter that could accompany the eigth air force bombers deep into Germany.Of course,the legendary Mustang was born when the decision was taken to install the Rolls Royce Merlin,arguably,this probably would not have happened had not Beaverbrook given that contract to Packard for the Merlins.
The USAAF also used the De Havilland Mosquito in the PR role.

This was a cool video! I did not know that the USAAF operated a squadron of Spitfires outfitted for recon missions. Brave souls they were to fly deep into enemy territory unarmed and alone. I wonder if any have ever been shot down?

Originally posted by LABTECH767
reply to post by Aloysius the Gaul

 

Beautiful, now they don't make them like that anymore do they, started as a race plane that was originally a water take of plane but it morphed into the fighter that alongside the hurricane was one of the best fighters of the second world war, indeed except for the ME262 the only plane to beat it was an ally and that was the legendary mustang, the ME109 was close but not close enough

I like your opinion and agree with you about the Spitfire, Mustang, and I would venture to say the Typhoon (not the same as the Hurricane), but I disagree with the 262.

It was a great bomber interceptor due to its blinding speed (at the time) and ferocious cannons, but as far as air superiority and dogfighting is concerned it lacked. It was not maneuverable enough and was very vulnerable to machine gun fire as the engines would flame out at the first sign of damage.

Honorable Mention: Japan's Shiden (George), US Navy's Hellcat, Germany's Focke Wulf (Particular the D-9), and the Russian's LA-5n

FYI I found this article Uncle Sam's Spitfires that has a basic outline of the combat spits operated by the USAAF out of England and in the Med. - it doesn't mention the PR ones and has a bit of a dig at the Americans for not giving the Spitfire an official designation!!

Also in regard to the Spitfire's range - of course het design was started as an interceptor, where long rage was not a requirement, and it never became a requirement for the RAF as they did not make long range daylight bombing raids.

the Spitfire COULD have had more fuel added, but the Mustang fulfilled the requirements for the USAAF who were the only people who needed the range.

See this thread on another forum for discussion - and note that the fuel load in the Mustang made it the pig to takeoff and maneuver at initial stages that you would expect of an overloaded airframe!! It would have done the same to a Spitfire.

I'll bite...

That was a very inspiring video, and they just don't make em like that anymore- both the plane and the people.

But where's the love for the P-38? The debate on the greatest WW2 fighter rages on, and I'd still take a P-38J over anything else. I'm biased of course. My Grandpappy flew em, and he said time and time again that there was no equal once the kinks were worked out. Cheers!

reply to post by Tuned Agent


Well the Spit pilot does mention the F-5, and why he didn't like it

S&F Good Sir!

I remember as a school kid having a very strong fascination with almost all WW2 fighter/bombers.
They were the only thing i could draw. All the other kids could draw amazing stuff like cars, scenery, people
etc.
All i could draw was this stuff.
Anytime i see something related to Spitfires, Hurricanes, Mustangs, Kittyhawk's, Mosquito's, Lancasters, Mitchells, et al, my senses prick up.
I went to an International Airshow here in Melbourne a few years ago, all the latest toys were there, but the only thing that got my attention were the WW2 aircraft....
Ahh yes, they don't make them like that anymore..

Cheers man. I always appreciate learning a lil bit more about my favorite things....

reply to post by Tuned Agent


Late-model P-38's were something altogether different than the early models, definitely. But they still cost about twice as much as a P-51 and roughly the same as the P-80 by that point, which was part of the reason production switched.

reply to post by _Del_


Indeed they solved the turbocharger problems.... but using Spits also solved the problem

The cost arguments for the P-51 vs P38 are the same as noted in the link I gave on the 2nd video for the Spit PR XI vs PR Mosquito - 1 Merlin vs 2, smaller, faster, more maneuverable, just as long a range

Originally posted by jude11
Yeah,

Let's all celebrate killing machines.

These are not made for pleasure are they?

Ever Flown in a fighter?
Have you ever flown in an airplane doing something other other than straight and level flight?
Ever do a hammer head stall over the Rocky mountains at sunset?
Have you ever had a P-51 fly 50 feet over your head at full speed?
So yeah they can produce some pleasure in life. At least for me anyway.

By the way the internet was created so the Defense department researchers could trade data easier with each other on how to build weapons. Also please stop taking take jet flights since the jet was a product of WWII Fighter designs. You could take a Bus but they use the Interstate system which was built by Dwight D. Eisenhower to transport troops around the country faster.
A lot of your everyday items comes from the technology of killing machines.

reply to post by jude11



Were it not for the Spitfire, the - The Hurricane - The b17 - the Merlin, the Lancaster, etc. Plus the many Heroic servicemen / Woman. We would not be reding or writing ATS.

Originally posted by jude11
Yeah,

Let's all celebrate killing machines.

These are not made for pleasure are they?

Have we not seen you under a bridge somewhere?
Or maybe off the back of a big fishing boat?

Yeah, trolling much??
WainKer.....

Were it not for the Supermarine Spitfire, we probably would have never went to the moon. You see, Hitler and Goering were losing so many bombers and fighters to Spitfires over England that Von Braun, et al, was relegated the task to accelerate the Vengeance weapons development. The V-1 production was stepped up and the V-2 was "perfected".

Without the V-2 and the German scientists that came with them, we would have been a long time developing rockets that would launch a payload into space. It was an exciting time...

Originally posted by majesticgent
. . . but I disagree with the 262.

It was a great bomber interceptor due to its blinding speed (at the time) and ferocious cannons, . . .

Thanks to the OP for the thread. These personal stories of WW2 are almost always very interesting. PBS ran a series once about a Thunderbolt pilot from Buffalo, NY that was just great. It was called A Pilot's Story.

Talk about American forces flying the Spitfire got me thinking about a sort of reversal on the theme where a Canadian pilot, Richard Rohmer, flew photo reconnaissance for the RCAF in, of all things, a P51 Mustang. He was the one who spotted Rommel in his staff car in Normandy (he didn't know it was Rommel at the time) and arranged for the RAF to strafe it, wounding the general.

Related to the quote from majesticgent, my father, who flew in Lancasters near the end of the war in Europe said that in briefings about the Me 262, gunners were told to start shooting as soon as they saw it. No time to think about "range". It would already be in and out again in the time it took other fighters to attack.

indeed except for the ME262 the only plane to beat it was an ally and that was the legendary mustang,

reply to post by LABTECH767


It was a Hawker Tempest of the 2TAF.

I never knew the US had used any in operational role's as technically except for the engine's the US had better plane's

Not in the fighter role. Does the P-80 count?

By the way the internet was created so the Defense department researchers could trade data easier with each other on how to build weapons.

reply to post by mash3d


APRANET yes, a US forerunner packet-switching network...

Spitfire are cool, every time I hear the name though I get the prodigy song stuck in my head...


SF

"Fire, a lonely Spitfire"

The look on that pilot's face when he watched the film is what I will remember most about this......

Thanks for the video.

Found another account of the 31st Fighter Group on the WW2 Aircraft performance page - this is the USAAF group that flew Spitfires in the Med from 1942-1944.

IMO the W2 performance page is an absolute must have for a/c nuts, with period performance and encounter reports for all the major anglo-allied a/c, and many of the German ones, plus some select comparisons from flight testing at the time.

For example there are dozens of "encounter" reports from USAAF P-51 Mustangs on that page, and under "Allison Mustangs there is this account of recce/rhubarb tactics by the RAF using the type, which includes all sorts of little gems such as this:

It is felt that with the present load on the enemy shops and the possible shortage of the high quality steel necessary for the boiler tubes, that a locomotive that has been holed by .50 cal. machine gun fire will be out of service from 3 weeks to 6 months depending on the location with reference to repair facilities. In some cases the locomotive explodes ; if it does not explode, often the escaping steam blows the fire out of the fire box into the cab. The repetition of these attacks has definitely made the profession of locomotive engineer unpopular in that part of Europe within range of the Mustangs.

(my italics )