Steven Greer...Why The Hate?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur

Originally posted by MindpurelyMind

This is my first post here. I found this on my FB page this morning.

www.youtube.com...

Any thoughts

Yes, you should have read the terms and conditions before making your first post because you violated them.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

15k.) Video links/embeds: You will not embed or Post a link to a video without a reasonable description of its content and why it interests you, is germane to the topics discussed on the Websites or the topic of an existing thread should you post it in a reply to an existing thread.

You didn't really make any attempt to do any of that. I hope your second post will be better.

Relax, my friend. Everyone makes mistakes. There's a learning curve, right?

reply to post by smyleegrl


So you do have access to the WWW, to ATS forums and to its search function, but still need help to understand why Greer is considered to be a crook? Are you for real?
I don’t understand why, after so many topics in which Greer was exposed, in my opinion beyond any reasonable doubt, as being a big charlatan, we are still talking about this guy!
“Why the hate?” … disregard maybe. I think the only ones who hate him are those which paid 800 bucks for pictures with moths as being ETs.

Originally posted by Catalin
reply to post by smyleegrl

 

So you do have access to the WWW, to ATS forums and to its search function, but still need help to understand why Greer is considered to be a crook? Are you for real?
I don’t understand why, after so many topics in which Greer was exposed, in my opinion beyond any reasonable doubt, as being a big charlatan, we are still talking about this guy!
“Why the hate?” … disregard maybe. I think the only ones who hate him are those which paid 800 bucks for pictures with moths as being ETs.

Yes, I have access to the Internet. However, I find that just asking my fellow ATSers for their opinions and reasons much easier. This thread has shown me all I need to know about Greer, and it didn't take me watching countless YouTube videos or that Sirius movie to come to this conclusion.

Hate may have been a poor choice of words. Why the Scorn? Might have been better. Live and learn.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Because he's a double agent - controlled opposition. Plus he isn't exactly human. Other than that, he's fine and he did contribute to the community and movement quite a bit.

"UFOlogy" has always been a field where there have been a very few serious and respected researchers and LOTS of hoaxers and scammers.

There is a huge difference between good researchers who aim to collect data, interview witnesses, develop good theses (such as Vallee etc.)...as opposed to people like Greer who conduct NewAge workshops charging gullible people $1000s to witness "invisible" UFO landings.

The ones are the researchers, or those who really try to understand and document the phenomenon, the others are the exploiters who use the subject since it (naturally) attracts and appeals to many naive, gullible people.

Previous researchers and publicists didn't do much to bring Ufology to the mainstream.

Greer has done, and for that, with a subject as sensitive and as hugely controversial as this is, he was ALWAYS going to be the firing line for abuse and frankly, in a literal firing line for his work on bringing the subject out of the shadows and into the light.

For those that don't want this to happen, or are attempting to put a lid back on, they tend to attack the messenger and not the message.

He was always going to be attacked for what he's done.

I'm amazed some Sweedish tart hasn't yet claimed he'd shagged her without using a condom yet TBH...that or police haven't found mountains of kiddie porn or some other equally damaging material with which to bring him down.

Before Greer pushed the envelope of Ufology, a nice comfy living was being made by most researchers...lectures, books and films all made the more famous names a good living, despite hardly forwarding the research beyond what had already been published previously.

Greer HAS advanced the subject, and like it or not, is now very much in the public mind...millions more people are now looking 'up', and many of them are equipped with high spec cameras and NV equipment too.

Yes, Greer makes money from what he does...how many of YOU don't make a living from what you do with your time?

Are you all so comfortable that you go to your place of work for free? You do what you do for no pay, even though bills and reminders are dropping in your letterbox?

Not many i suspect, and Greer is no different to any of us...he needs to earn.

To put it into context, the 'skeptics society' charges us the public much more for their movies and recorded lectures than Greer does.

They charge up to $60 for a DVD of lectures, and more for other 'merchandise' they flog off for profit.

Are the members of 'The Skeptics society' charletans because they charge for information too? Are they frauds for making money from the work they do?

Why is it fine for professional skeptics to cash in on flogging almost extortionate prices (IMO) for their lectures and DVDs etc....but not for Greer?

Before you think of Greer as a fraud, think first exactly why so many would HAVE you believe he is.

Or...you can just visit here....

www.ufowatchdog.com...

Reportedly plagiarizes the UFO work of others and sells as his own, sells do-it-yourself ET contact kits - now you too can steer in extraterrestrial spacecraft with a flashlight and never record them just like Doc Greer does. Made claims of contacting extraterrestrials through meditation. Claimed that U.S. military forces attacked a Colorado ET base inside a mountain using nerve gas, no evidence to back claim. Had dinner with CIA Director and spun tale of having briefed CIA Director about ETs for hours. Hosted press conference with credible UFO witnesses on Capitol Hill - ruined it and his own credibility by selling the work of others with his name on it and using bogus witnesses. Allegedly attempted to charge Washington State MUFON members $2500.00 each to demonstrate how he can vector in UFOs - Greer got to choose the location and the time...mmmmmm.

You could start by spelling his first name right.

Steven* Greer.

Also, the only Ufologist's that I personally take seriously these days are Richard Dolan and Stanton Friedman.

Originally posted by Vrill
You could start by spelling his first name right.

Steven* Greer.

Also, the only Ufologist's that I personally take seriously these days are Richard Dolan and Stanton Friedman.

edit on 5-6-2013 by Vrill because: (no reason given)

LOL...I didn't even notice I misspelled his name! Star for you!

S you believe Friedman is pretty credible? I've been reading some of his stuff, so far he seems to be avoiding the sensational train.

reply to post by smyleegrl


Yeah, the only real controversy surrounding Stanton are those MJ12 files. You have a lot of folks that say they are legit and then a lot of folks that say they are a huge hoax. So who knows really. I love his work though. Crash at Corona was interesting and so was his Top Secret/Majic book.

reply to post by WeRpeons

I will give credit to Greer for putting together the disclosure project. There were some pretty impressive and credible witnesses on that panel.

I agree, there were a few decent witnesses on the initial panel.....however, all Greer did was spot a gap in a niche market and exploit it for every penny he could get, the Disclosure project was his vehicle for this...... the guys smart......but he's a conman.

Man, I need to get into the UFO crowd and start making money out of it. These turkeys will believe anything!

Hey UFO people, I have some pixie dust and moon cheese that was delivered to me by the Zeta Reticulans. You can buy a sample of each for the low, low, once-only bargain price of $5,000 per ounce!

Also, aliens probed my anus. That's how you know I'm telling the truth (they only probe the anuses of honest people).

Originally posted by Sankari
Man, I need to get into the UFO crowd and start making money out of it. These turkeys will believe anything!

Hey UFO people, I have some pixie dust and moon cheese that was delivered to me by the Zeta Reticulans. You can buy a sample of each for the low, low, once-only bargain price of $5,000 per ounce!

Also, aliens probed my anus. That's how you know I'm telling the truth (they only probe the anuses of honest people).

Do you normally ridicule folks who are interested in exploring unconventional areas of thought?

Sorry, but just because folks are interested in a certain topic doesn't make them "turkeys."

I must admit I don't understand all the hate Greer gets. His ideas are on the "cutting edge" of reality but I don't believe he is a con-man, to me he comes across as some one who honestly believes in what he teaches. I don't personally believe much of it, but I wouldn't say that makes Greer a con-man.
If Greer is a con-man then every priest of religion are also con-men. How many millions of people pray to an unseen god, based purely on heresay?
Live and let live.



,

Originally posted by smyleegrl

Originally posted by Sankari
Man, I need to get into the UFO crowd and start making money out of it. These turkeys will believe anything!

Hey UFO people, I have some pixie dust and moon cheese that was delivered to me by the Zeta Reticulans. You can buy a sample of each for the low, low, once-only bargain price of $5,000 per ounce!

Also, aliens probed my anus. That's how you know I'm telling the truth (they only probe the anuses of honest people).

Do you normally ridicule folks who are interested in exploring unconventional areas of thought?

No—only when they check their brains at the door.

I'm quite happy to explore unconventional areas of thought; hell, I have some beliefs of my own that most people would consider outrageously unconventional.

But it's important to have logical, rational reasons for belief—otherwise we might as well just make it up as we go along (like Greer does).

I pity people who are genuinely sucked in by Greer's nonsense through no fault of their own. I have no time for people who try to defend him when they should know better.

Sorry, but just because folks are interested in a certain topic doesn't make them "turkeys."

I didn't say that it did. I'm referring specifically to the people who continue to have faith in Greer despite all the evidence proving that he's a fraud.

reply to post by MysterX


THANK YOU! Finally somebody with the brains, the balls and the articulation to stand up for Greer and bring some good sense into this never-ending argument. It was well said and with good points.

The point I would like to bring up is that since the release of Sirius, and for some time even before this, members associated with Sirius and CSETI have been posting tons of information on their website and YouTube accounts. The full testimonies from The Disclosure Project, including their full 4 hour DVD that was previously only available for sale. This is all made available FOR FREE. Let me repeat that once more (since so many of you endlessly repeat that Greer just wants money): FREE! Since this is true, all of your arguments are basically useless now.

CSETI & The Disclosure Project YouTube Channel

reply to post by Gazrok


Or is it because all of the people who are crying about Greer making money are actually just intellectually offended by the idea that he can use the power of consciousness to contact advanced intelligences? Honestly, that is the issue here, and you are all avoiding it. It's so obvious to me that the people who are so pissed off about that whole subject are largely materialist atheists who don't and cannot believe that mind over matter phenomena exist. So the fact that Greer says it does and charges money for week long workshops makes you all scream BULL**** like Penn and Teller. Because you sincerely believe he is putting on an act and cashing in on it.

How about the possibility that there really is mind over matter phenomena that involve advanced intelligences and altered states of consciousness? Shamans have been talking about the same thing since time immemorial.

He has done some real work in bringing disclosure project forward and a geniune contactee. In the process he obviously was threatened, possibly his whole family, and so he did put out a few very questionable things, such as the famous moth picture. Others die! He's alive and that is very very good! I don't like the put downs on him since if you actually do his mediation, or any other, with right intent, you'll soon be much more aware of what is watching over us, and know the difference between military and Et. Then others complain that he charges money.
To me thats like thinking all the authors should quit working at their callings and become janitors and just volunteer. Its ludicrous. Nor does anyone have to do his workshops, they can form their own, with a variety of meditations. He's just a wayshower with that. There are others who are contactees as well, and who have some direction. Having the right attitude and being positive and loving is what makes the difference in postive experiences.

He's gotten alot of expert testimony out. If we want those in this field to not be forced to ridicule themselves and can't learn to read between the lines, then I think people are going to have to show a lot more responsibility for the politicians they elect, and start to demand disclosure, because its a bit much to expect them to martyr themselves.

Originally posted by corsair00
reply to post by Gazrok

 

Or is it because all of the people who are crying about Greer making money are actually just intellectually offended by the idea that he can use the power of consciousness to contact advanced intelligences? Honestly, that is the issue here, and you are all avoiding it.

Not at all.

The issue is presenting moths and other insects and telling people they are extraterrestrial in nature.

The issue is stating hotel lights are extraterrestrial craft.

The issue is claiming a Joshua tree branch is an ET ambassador.

The issue is charging people thousands of dollars to ride in a non-existant invisible flying saucer.

The issue is constantly asking for money to develop Free Energy devices, receiving the donations, and never coming up with the goods. (He's at it again right now, asking for people to send him $8,000,000)

The issue is using known hoax footage in the Sirius documentary.

The issue is exploiting the corpse of an aborted foetus.

The issues are about deception... and you are avoiding them all!

Originally posted by smyleegrl
you believe Friedman is pretty credible? I've been reading some of his stuff, so far he seems to be avoiding the sensational train.

Sort of. Friedman says he's never seen a UFO himself, so of course that's a credible claim. He's one of the most respected researchers and he knows the subject.

The problem with Friedman, is with how he interprets the evidence. He says things like 'Its no longer an ET "hypothesis"", because there is so much evidence. But where he loses some credibility with me is with the claim that lots of not so convincing evidence means it's not a hypothesis anymore.

One example he cited was an eyewitness account that a strange craft made a 90 degree turn, which is impossible for any of our aircraft (and it's implied this means zero turning radius, I suppose).

But with all the video cameras, and all the claims of 90 degree turns, I've never seen video of such a turn, except for what looked like some infrared video of some bats flying around and they can make very rapid changes in direction.

Other scientists like Carl Sagan and Neil Tyson have pointed out that science has documented extensively the many ways that humans can misinterpret what they see, and so from my view, a witness saying they saw a 90 degree turn happened is far from proof or even evidence it was an alien spacecraft due to witness accuracy problems, but Friedman seems to want to interpret it that way. And by the way neither Sagan nor Tyson discounted the possibility of aliens visiting Earth (nor do I)...they admitted it might be happening, but to them it's still a "hypothesis".

Friedman seems a bit naive and gullible to me at times to take such witness statements at face value, especially since he's a physicist, so he should know better than anybody how such a 90 degree turn might violate the laws of physics as we know them.

In spite of that, I still like the guy and admire his knowledge of the subject even if I can't agree with everything he says, like the "ET hypothesis" claim. It's still a hypothesis, in spite of Friedman's claim it's not.