The Great Work

God, grant me the serenity to accept (and enjoy) what I cannot change, the courage (and ability) to change the things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. (serenity prayer)

This wisdom phrase touches the polarity theory.

When we cant or wont change we activate the female principle, passive, adaptable, it doesn't want to change reality.

When we can and want to change reality we active the male principle, active, it wants to create and change reality.

So great work is:
- Leaning how to be passive, adaptable: female principle
- Learning how to be creator, worker, builder: male principle
- And learning when is the right time to be male or female.

This is the balancing of the yin and yang, when we value and use wisely both sides of polarity.

In astrology the moon and venus are female while sun and mars are male. Apparently, mercury has no gender.

We have to master all the planets and both polarities, we have to balance yin and yang.

This is the great work.

Just some thoughts.

reply to post by Manula


When I first began my Occult and magickal studies I was of the same mind as you.

The feminine, Goddess, was passive, receptive, and friendly.
The masculine, God, was aggressive, active, and challenging.

But then I put down the books by Crowley, or the Golden Dawn, or other New Age spiritualists. I picked up a book of mythology, and I began to read, word-for-word, what the myths about gods, goddesses, spirits, magick, and the like actually said.

More than a decade later, I can safely say that the feminine is neither passive, nor inherently friendly. And there are a plethora of examples where the masculine is subordinate to the feminine.

The idea of gender-specified spiritual poles is an illusion.
Just as the idea of gender-roles among humans is an illusion.

For example, you say Venus and the Moon are feminine.

Well, let's look at Venus.

The strongest example of an archetype of Venus is the Queen of Heaven, embodied in such feminine powers as Inanna, Ištar, Isis, Anat, Astarte, Qadeš, Šauška, Aphrodite, Hera, Freyja, and Frigga.

All of these feminine powers are agressive. They set their sights on something, and tirelessly pursue a means of attaining it. They ask nicely, resort to trickery, use sexual manipulation, work magick, and a whole host of other things to achieve their desired ends.

Most importantly, they almost always get what they want.

Also, a fair amount of them are Creators, movers & shakers, and other elements which you suggest belong to the masculine/God polarity.

Oddly enough, the most famous Venusian force, arguably, is Lucifer, the Roman "Morning Star", a masculine principle embodying feminine qualities.

Now let's explore the Moon.

The Moon, in the earliest mythologies and spiritual practices of man, was masculine, as was the sun. For example, here's a list of important Moon-deities from around the world: Nanna and Sin from Mesopotamia; Thoth and Khonsu from Egypt; in Anatolia you have the moon-gods Kasku and Kušuh; and in Canaan you have the moon-god Yarikh.

In fact, it was only in Greece that the Moon served a feminine role, as Artemis-Selene-Hecate, a Triple Goddess reflective of the Moon's New, Waxing/Waning, and Full phases. By the time the Viking religion of the Norsemen came to power, the Moon was under the governance of Mani, the moon-god.

Overwhelmingly man has seen the Moon as masculine. Why? Perhaps because early man had a better understanding of the interplay between Sun and Moon, realizing that both were sharing the same light. Or, maybe they just had good eyes, and were able to see the shadow of the Earth on the moon (as Galileo did), and concluded that the Moon was only reflecting the Sun's light.

Regardless, the most common Moon-goddess symbolism comes from Artemis-Selene-Hecate, or from the Welsh goddesses Arianrhod and Ceridwen. Why would your opinion of the astrological power of the Moon be relegated to only 5 of the numerous forces which govern the Moon?

Everything in all of existence has both spiritual polarities. To really perform the Great Work requires dispersing the discrimination that anything falls within a neat and tidy categorical system. If you want to balance the influence from the seven classical planets within yourself, then actually study how they were viewed throughout history.

You'll find a much fuller array of energies to work with that way.

~ Wandering Scribe

reply to post by Manula


I don't hold on to thoughts of "I can't " if it can't be changed there is no need for me to be focusing more on that and feeling powerless.

reply to post by Wandering Scribe

A star for you. I have no patience with magic (especially when spelled with a 'K') or mysticism, but from a psychological or mythological perspective you are more or less spot-on – except for the moon-goddess stuff. It wasn't just the Greeks, you know. According to this list of lunar deities, goddesses predominate over gods in most regions outside Africa and the ancient Near East (that is to say, interestingly, everywhere except in what are probably the oldest areas of human occupation). You might say the Moon was a transgendered deity.

A couple of things more: first, all you say is borne out in Jung's writings on the anima. Second, you left out the scariest Classical goddess of all: Cybele. You also left out what should have been Exhibit A in your disquisition:

reply to post by Astyanax

A star for you. I have no patience with magic (especially when spelled with a 'K') or mysticism, but from a psychological or mythological perspective you are more or less spot-on – except for the moon-goddess stuff. It wasn't just the Greeks, you know. According to this list of lunar deities, goddesses predominate over gods in most regions outside Africa and the ancient Near East (that is to say, interestingly, everywhere except in what are probably the oldest areas of human occupation). You might say the Moon was a transgendered deity.

Thanks for the star!

The reason I don't focus too much on Mesoamerican, Native American, Aborigine, and other groups like that is because I don't necessarily trust the available information concerning them. I've read about Aztec gods, and the Aborigine Dreamtime, even took a college course specifically focusing on it. But, by-and-large, the information made available was incomplete, or contained a massive amount of conjecture. I'm just more comfortable working from an angle with a thorough bed of archaeological information under it.

Which, concerning moon-deities, still points toward masculinity. There are plenty of moon-goddesses, don't get me wrong. However, they often serve secondary, or even tertiary roles in comparison with the moon-god.

Consider Isis, a well-known moon-goddess. Despite all she does, her influence is most often felt in Venus, and not the Moon. Meanwhile Thoth, who serves a plethora of roles, is seen as the pivotal moon-god of Egypt, complete with occasionally wearing a lunar crown.

The same thing happens in Mesopotamia and Arabia. There are moon-goddesses, but their role and function is lessened when compared with figures like Nanna/Sin, who was the Moon itself incarnated on Earth to the people of Mesopotamia.

My pointing out of Greece is that it was the first time when a moon-goddess supplanted a moon-god. Before then, feminine moon-deities were a minority, or of significantly less influence, lunar-wise. Nearly the entire conception, today, concerning the moon as a feminine influence, is rooted in Greek figures like Artemis, Selene, and Hecate.

Not that I don't acknowledge moon-goddesses. Hecate is, actually, one of my favorite mythological figures from any culture (she's even my avatar on ATS over there). I certainly respect the moon-goddess, but I also understand she was a late-arrival on the mythological timeline.

Second, you left out the scariest Classical goddess of all: Cybele.

Well, Kybele is an earth-and-mountain goddess actually. I was working off of Venus and the Moon, ha ha. When it comes to goddesses associated with fertility, seasons, and the Earth, I actually find Kybele to be quite tame compared to some others. Age is really the big thing she has, if she can be authentically attached to figures found at various ancient sites, like Çatalhöyük.

I, personally, think that Demeter is a scarier goddess than Kybele (barring the Eunuchs). Since I'm not frightened by emasculation, to me the idea of a goddess who would let all of Greece starve to death over the loss of her daughter is more scary than a goddess who makes men castrate themselves, ha ha. Just me personally, though.

You also left out what should have been Exhibit A in your disquisition

I tend to avoid Hinduism, as their deities are more... energies?... than actual figures. While Kali certainly has a terrifying appearance, again, the idea of destroying men doesn't necessarily strike me as scary. Especially when I know that in Hinduism death is not a finality, but a continual transition. What is there to be afraid of if she kills? They'll just come back

But, as I said, I was sticking with the Moon and Venus. Were I looking for goddesses who subjugated gods, I'd also start in the ancient Near East... Ninhursag poisoning Enki; Inanna stealing the Me; Isis poisoning and then tricking Rē; Neith... just, being Neith, who is a terrifying warrior-goddess; Anat trampling and dismembering and flaying and burning Mot, and then massacring the sea-god in Egypt...

Goddesses are certifiably awesome.

I'm not sure I quite understand the link to the quotes concerning anima, could you explain why you think my writing about goddesses stems from there?

~ Scribe

The energy can be male or female but everyone (men and women) have both polarities in them. I have a male and female side, the task is to balance them. And so do you, everyone has them..

I never said that girls are passive and men are active.... There are a lot of women that have a male side stronger than the female side, so they are dominant, active, rational.... Also there are men that are submissive passive, indulgent, their female side is stronger....

Wandering Scribe, have you any threads which are much like your posts in this thread? Save me a trip to your profile, as Im on a hard to navigate small screen. Love the seemingly intensely-researched & internalized bent of your posts on goddesses. However, Im interested in thangkas more than that topic. But your writing piques the mind for possible new courses. Links to pertinent threads?

reply to post by kkrattiger


Sorry, Kkrattiger, I don't usually start my own threads on here.

I find that pertinent, well-researched information as the fulcrum of a thread itself is often ignored by the majority. The less plausible, believable, and researched a thing is, the more the average ATSer will consider it to be the Truth. So, really, I just try to speckle other, more ridiculous posts with some researched opinions on the same topic. (No offense Manula!)

Really, the only way to find the information is to do the digging yourself.

The East Asian faiths, Hinduism, the Sikhs, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, are not really my bag of tricks, unfortunately. I'm probably not the best choice for learning about a thangka. My knowledge of their creation and purpose would be no deeper than what a Wiki, or Google search might yield, as I don't personally study schools of thought which exist within the Wheel of Saṃsāra.

I'm willing to take a stab at a question if you have one, but I can't make any promises I'll know the answer.

Thanks for the compliments on my posts!

~ Scribe

Originally posted by Wandering Scribe
reply to post by kkrattiger

 

Sorry, Kkrattiger, I don't usually start my own threads on here.

I find that pertinent, well-researched information as the fulcrum of a thread itself is often ignored by the majority. The less plausible, believable, and researched a thing is, the more the average ATSer will consider it to be the Truth. So, really, I just try to speckle other, more ridiculous posts with some researched opinions on the same topic. (No offense Manula!)

Really, the only way to find the information is to do the digging yourself.

The East Asian faiths, Hinduism, the Sikhs, Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, are not really my bag of tricks, unfortunately. I'm probably not the best choice for learning about a thangka. My knowledge of their creation and purpose would be no deeper than what a Wiki, or Google search might yield, as I don't personally study schools of thought which exist within the Wheel of Saṃsāra.

I'm willing to take a stab at a question if you have one, but I can't make any promises I'll know the answer.

Thanks for the compliments on my posts!

~ Scribe

edit on 5/6/13 by Wandering Scribe because: (no reason given)

Thanks Scribe for your compliment, you are a true gentleman, humble and kind.

This website gets better everyday, people respect each other, they really allow others to have an opinion, they don't immediately try to discredit or debunk them in a competition-like style, they really try to understand each other and they promote diversity of opinion and tolerance.

Its really fantastic.

PS: Scribe, i was talking about the meaning of planets in astrology not in mythology, Saturn ate their kids in mythology but in astrology he is not malefic at all, Saturn is the teacher, the master, makes you learn lessons with experience, makes you grow in maturity, its hard work and turning into an adult.

So you are so good, mr know it all, but you didn't even try to understand what i was saying...

I cant give much value and credit to your attitude, sorry.

Oh, and no stars, sorry

reply to post by Manula

PS: Scribe, i was talking about the meaning of planets in astrology not in mythology, Saturn ate their kids in mythology but in astrology he is not malefic at all, Saturn is the teacher, the master, makes you learn lessons with experience, makes you grow in maturity, its hard work and turning into an adult.

So you are so good, mr know it all, but you didn't even try to understand what i was saying...

I cant give much value and credit to your attitude, sorry.

Oh, and no stars, sorry

Where do you think the astrological correspondences come from?

Saturn was not only a Grecco-Roman Titan. In Mesopotamian culture Saturn was first seen as An, the sky-god, who was supplanted by his son, Enlil, the storm-lord.

After An had been exiled, Enki/Ea took over the Saturnine role. Enki was a masterful magician, who first taught the Anunnaki, and then man, the arts of evocation and invocation.

Also, Enki/Ea's abode was the E-Abzu, the Abyss, sometimes located in the mouth of Apsu (the primordial), and sometimes in a time-out-of-time, which you may know as the Void, the Abyss, or the Veil of Wisdom achieved during mystical states.

So, Saturn as the Mystic, the Teacher, and the Magician can very clearly be traced back to mythology.

Those energies and archetypes didn't just pop out of nowhere. Early man recognized them in himself, and in Nature, and ascribed to them certain divine, semi-divine, and infernal qualities based on the observations they made.

Venus in astrology, is based on Venus in mythology. The same for all the other spheres of influence.


~ Wandering Scribe


P.S., I don't operate for stars, flags, or applause. I'm not concerned with popularity.