Mass grave of Palestinians killed by Israel in 1948 found

Originally posted by projectvxn
The problem with you folks who hate Israel is that, like any other polarized issue, you'll accept anything as truth as long as it hurts your opponent.

I would like to interject here and say a couple of things as one of those you just lumped together...

I don't hate Israel, I hate the Zionist regime of Israel, the one that thinks it's acceptable to steal the land of another people, imprison them, bully them, attack them daily, and then complain like bitches when those prisoners fight back.

Second, I agree with you, there does need to be more evidence. I am one of the first to demand the same in any case. If someone has an accusation to make, and one of such gravity, there had better be some solid evidence to base that accusation on.

To those just believing this, please stop and think for a moment. You can still hate the Zionist regime of Israel and its disgusting treatment of its neighbors, without this needing to be true. Please don't show a total bias and a lack of critical thought and simply accept some bad press for Israel, just because you hate the regime.

Creating modern day israel the way it was created was always bound
to create these problems, imagine would you, all the major super powers
in the world deciding that since the U.S. took the land from native Americans,
there needed to be a country just for them, then even though there are
people living there already they just up and gave the native Americans
Kansas, now, obviously the people living there already would have
issues with this as that's their livelihood, now if they fought back
and did not just leave and were subjected to mass murders, mass
graves and being demonized by those who had just moved in only to
turn to the rest of the world and be called terrorists for wanting
to keep their land, well i think that's a fair comparison of this situation.

It never could have ended well, not with the way it was established and
certainly not with the attitude of religious superiority.

Can you tell who are the bodies?
Can you tell if there are also Jews among them?
Can you tell if these were combatants or not?

First, i do not deny that there were war crimes. Lots of nasty things happened in 1948.
But where is the proof that those mass graves are signs of the war crimes, i have no idea. Local, Israeli Arab who most probably was not part of Israeli forces, says that he carried 60 people that they found killed during fighting in Jaffa and dropped them into those graves. He even says that he helped doing this, so there were others.
What is proof for you to start calling war crime?

Whether these people were killed in combat or were innocent civilians doesn't matter much-they're not any less dead either way. They died because the United Nations cut Trans-Jordan in two and gave half to the Zionists.

Also, unless you find 6 million dead Arabs in a hole somewhere, most people won't care about this.

Palestine/Israel is supposedly the most sacred and holy piece of real estate in the world. However, since 1948 its become one of the most unholy pieces of land in the world. This is the epitome of the hypocrisy of the desert religions and many who support the behaviour of the zealots (on all sides).

If children's bodies are in the graves then shelling or whatever places with children in is sheer wickedness as was the removal of the Palestinians and theft of their land and rights.

Originally the people who went to settle in Palestine were offered a part of Africa, judging by Israeli activity in Africa today,I suspect there are one or two who wish the African option had been accepted.

The humbug needs to be taken away from the official negotiations and a fair and practical solution needs to be found. Also those Palestinians who were ejected from their country need to have the option to be repatriated if they wish. Wherever you have displaced people, you have grievance and hatred.

Originally posted by Snsoc
Whether these people were killed in combat or were innocent civilians doesn't matter much-they're not any less dead either way. They died because the United Nations cut Trans-Jordan in two and gave half to the Zionists.

Also, unless you find 6 million dead Arabs in a hole somewhere, most people won't care about this.

They died because of the war.
You kind of forget that the plan was to give half to Zionist and the OTHER half to Palestinian Arabs,that never ever ever had their own state. If that plan was agreed upon by both sides there would be no war. Guess what side refused to accept it.
And even if there was no UN partition plan, British were not going to stay here forever and without any plan there was going to be war anyway.
For your information ,in 1948 war number of Arabs killed is slightly more then 10000. Which is horrible,and there were lots of civilians and all. Hardly 6 millions though.To get things into proportions, more people were killed during last year in Syria then in all Israeli-Palestinian conflicts combined. More refugees, too.

Originally posted by projectvxn
More sources are needed for confirmation.

Preferably not PressTV. The Iranian state media is not known for honest reporting.

And of course the usual suspects rush in to demonize Israel without actually having any facts or unbiased sources to confirm this sensationalist story.

edit on 1-6-2013 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

And the usual appologists will be here to defend isreal! But this somehow makes you better?

All I need to know is isreals track record! All I need to know is they are there on stolen land! Land they took by force!

But hey, you keep on apologizing for them...

Look, what happened to them with the nazi's was bad... But it wasn't the palestinians fault now was it! WTF has it got to do with them? Why take it out on them? Why now behave like a bully nazi yourself? (meaning the jews)...

No need to apologize for these scumbags even if they had a rough time of it way back when!

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge

Originally posted by Snsoc
Whether these people were killed in combat or were innocent civilians doesn't matter much-they're not any less dead either way. They died because the United Nations cut Trans-Jordan in two and gave half to the Zionists.

Also, unless you find 6 million dead Arabs in a hole somewhere, most people won't care about this.

They died because of the war.
You kind of forget that the plan was to give half to Zionist and the OTHER half to Palestinian Arabs,that never ever ever had their own state. If that plan was agreed upon by both sides there would be no war. Guess what side refused to accept it.
And even if there was no UN partition plan, British were not going to stay here forever and without any plan there was going to be war anyway.
For your information ,in 1948 war number of Arabs killed is slightly more then 10000. Which is horrible,and there were lots of civilians and all. Hardly 6 millions though.To get things into proportions, more people were killed during last year in Syria then in all Israeli-Palestinian conflicts combined. More refugees, too.

Wait, so you can just go around and "plan" to divy up peoples land? HA! What a joke!

So I want half of your land then! If you dare refuse we will have a war and I'll bomb the **** out of you and your family then throw you all in a mass grave and be the hero... Right?

Why even compare the numbers with what happened to the jews? Like it somehow makes it all okay!

What the hell is the matter with you?

Originally posted by mee32

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge

Originally posted by Snsoc
Whether these people were killed in combat or were innocent civilians doesn't matter much-they're not any less dead either way. They died because the United Nations cut Trans-Jordan in two and gave half to the Zionists.

Also, unless you find 6 million dead Arabs in a hole somewhere, most people won't care about this.

They died because of the war.
You kind of forget that the plan was to give half to Zionist and the OTHER half to Palestinian Arabs,that never ever ever had their own state. If that plan was agreed upon by both sides there would be no war. Guess what side refused to accept it.
And even if there was no UN partition plan, British were not going to stay here forever and without any plan there was going to be war anyway.
For your information ,in 1948 war number of Arabs killed is slightly more then 10000. Which is horrible,and there were lots of civilians and all. Hardly 6 millions though.To get things into proportions, more people were killed during last year in Syria then in all Israeli-Palestinian conflicts combined. More refugees, too.

Wait, so you can just go around and "plan" to divy up peoples land? HA! What a joke!

So I want half of your land then! If you dare refuse we will have a war and I'll bomb the **** out of you and your family then throw you all in a mass grave and be the hero... Right?

Why even compare the numbers with what happened to the jews? Like it somehow makes it all okay!

What the hell is the matter with you?

The land belonged to British. It was British mandate of Palestine.
I suggest to read about the issue prior to going on emotionally charged post. Knowing facts helps. Reading the article itself and not manipulating headline only generally helps too.
For an example,this story directly states that people were brought to these mass grave by local Arabs,during fighting for Jaffa.
As for numbers, i was replying to another poster that brought the issue up. Sort it out with him.

Originally posted by projectvxn
More sources are needed for confirmation.

Preferably not PressTV. The Iranian state media is not known for honest reporting.

And of course the usual suspects rush in to demonize Israel without actually having any facts or unbiased sources to confirm this sensationalist story.

edit on 1-6-2013 by projectvxn because: (no reason given)

How about an Israeli source? Will that work?

Mass graves from 1948 uncovered in Jaffa

www.ynetnews.com...

Six mass graves with the remains of dozens of Palestinians killed during the Israeli-Arab war of 1948 have been uncovered in the Jaffa district of Tel Aviv, the Daily Mail reported.

An official at the Muslim cemetery in Jaffa told AFP that the grisly find happened on Wednesday when ground subsided as builders carried out renovation work.

Originally posted by Astrocyte
Way to misrepresent the news story.

They were the bodies of those killed in the fighting - containing Arabs AND JEWS.

Ummm, from all the sources I've read it's says nothing about Jews being buried there. They do in fact say the remains belong to not only men but also women and children.

Originally posted by ZeroKnowledge
First, i do not deny that there were war crimes. Lots of nasty things happened in 1948.
But where is the proof that those mass graves are signs of the war crimes, i have no idea. Local, Israeli Arab who most probably was not part of Israeli forces, says that he carried 60 people that they found killed during fighting in Jaffa and dropped them into those graves. He even says that he helped doing this, so there were others.
What is proof for you to start calling war crime?

Directing your fire at civilians is a war crime. Unless you are suggesting that those women and children were enemy combatants.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

The land belonged to British. It was British mandate of Palestine.

And has Israel stayed within those borders? Israel violated that agreement on day one when they started the ethnic cleansing and expanding their borders.

Originally posted by buster2010
reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

 

The land belonged to British. It was British mandate of Palestine.

And has Israel stayed within those borders? Israel violated that agreement on day one when they started the ethnic cleansing and expanding their borders.

Israel accepted the agreement, other side did not. War was declared on Israel, not the opposite. Israel did not declared that it plans to drown Palestinians in the sea,the oposite. Israel is also not the reason there was no Palestine after 1948 since it did not capture all of Palestine,by far. Ever heard of Western bank, Gaza and Eastern Jerusalem?
It does not justify ethnic cleansing one bit, of course, but blaming Israel for starting 1948 war when the opposite is true is really weird.
As for the casualties, there was heavy fighting in Jaffa for almost a month. Care to show me 1 example in which during prolonged heavy fighting in populated area not a single civilian was killed? I know you cant find such an example. The witness that buried the bodies actually says that they could not do proper ceremonies because of the fighting,bullets and grenades everywhere. And two sides were fighting. Since not all warfare in populated area is considered war crime,you should check what the definition is.

I think it's telling how a mass grave can be found entirely by accident and open entirely new questions about a chapter of history in that very troubled land.....yet for some, it's a matter of moments before a whole elaborate tale of how the evidence points to ethnic cleansing or mass murder of civilians or mass body dumps to cover crimes...MUST be the only explanation possible.

History would be a messy and chaotic tale of our own past if all anthropology/archaeology worked in such sloppy and off handed ways. Assumptions are the mother of all screw ups ...and pure guess work as fact of historical sites are the mother of all ignorant assumptions. Just my opinion...and I guess I'll learn more when I start my formal anthropology in the Fall.

*While we're all throwing out wild, unfounded guesses like it has any factual basis...I may as well add to the fun. It's also well known and carries right into the present day that those found sympathetic to or collaborating with the Jews, among the Palestinian Population, may very well be murdered for it and promptly. This could also be the site of a large # of 'collaborators', killed in as families, by their OWN people. We just can't know for sure, by what there is to work with so far.

reply to post by grimghost


Nothing like doing the same ethnic cleansing as the Nazi's did to your own people, and they wonder why people are becoming less sympathetic to their cause.

The people were killed by artillery. a lot different than what happened at Mai lai........
The Arabs did the same to the jews fer petes sake...get a grip.

reply to post by ZeroKnowledge

Israel accepted the agreement, other side did not.

Why should they? How many Americans would agree with a foreign nation stealing your most fertile land and giving it to someone else? A person would have to be insane to agree with this.

War was declared on Israel, not the opposite. Israel did not declared that it plans to drown Palestinians in the sea,the opposite.

Still repeating this lie huh? When Israel started with the ethnic cleansing they started the war and the Israelis just say kill them all not drive them to the sea.

Israel is also not the reason there was no Palestine after 1948 since it did not capture all of Palestine,by far. Ever heard of Western bank, Gaza and Eastern Jerusalem?

You mean the land that Israel is in the process of stealing? Israel has no claim on any of these lands they annexed them by force which is against international law.

It does not justify ethnic cleansing one bit, of course, but blaming Israel for starting 1948 war when the opposite is true is really weird.

Israels theft of land is what started the war. That and Israel killings of civilians is what led the other Arabs to get involved. And Israel getting almost 60% more land than they were given shows what the war really was about.

As for the casualties, there was heavy fighting in Jaffa for almost a month. Care to show me 1 example in which during prolonged heavy fighting in populated area not a single civilian was killed? I know you cant find such an example. The witness that buried the bodies actually says that they could not do proper ceremonies because of the fighting,bullets and grenades everywhere. And two sides were fighting. Since not all warfare in populated area is considered war crime,you should check what the definition is.

You will find no evidence because Israel purposely targets civilians and civilian infrastructures they have made this claim many times. These are war crimes.
War crime = A war crime is a serious violation of the laws applicable in armed conflict (also known as international humanitarian law) giving rise to individual criminal responsibility. Examples of war crimes include "murder, the ill-treatment or deportation of civilian residents of an occupied territory to slave labor camps," "the murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war," the killing of prisoners, "the wanton destruction of cities, towns and villages, and any devastation not justified by military, or civilian necessity."
The last part sure sounds like Israel seeing how Israel has wiped out hundreds of villages.

Israel accepted the agreement, other side did not. War was declared on Israel, not the opposite. Israel did not declared that it plans to drown Palestinians in the sea,the oposite.

Oh Israel accepted the agreement, did they? I imagine they did. I wonder why the Arabs weren't too thrilled about it.

Yes, the Arab nations attacked Israel the day after it was created. And you think that happened...for no reason? Out of the blue? Maybe it had something to do with the years of terror attacks by Irgun and the Stern Gang? Or the radio announcements by Haganah that the Palestinians would be wiped out with diseases? Or the massacre at Der Yassin?