Egyptian mummies yield genetic secrets

Well, the Bosnian pyramids are supposedly older than the Egyptian pyramids so maybe they did move south. Isn't this based on the Halotype 12 genetics? I read this article either yesterday or the day before, I can't remember the fine print, been splitting wood for a couple of days, brain goes to mush

reply to post by LUXUS


lol

thats nubia in the 18/1900s

egypt was split in two
valley and delta

no nubia back then mate

just land of punt, etc

i think it was ramases that had red hair and the builders of the chinese pyramids were blue eyed ??

DNA studies are sure jacking with a lotta folk's notion of "True Racial" this and that.

As if there was some point way back when, that a pure African or Pure Aryan or Pure Asian trod the earth.

Newsflash: They were all screwing each other, and then lyin' about it afterwards. The fact is you come from a long line of sheep-thieves and peasants. Even if the "blood of kings" flows in your veins. Maybe especially if the blood of kings flows in your veins.

I study the past because it's fascinating, not because i'm looking for a Golden Age where "my people" were pure and undefiled and ruled the earth.

Mummies screw with a lot of people. The Tarim mummies are red-headed and wearing plaid kilts, a thousand years before the Kelts arrived in Britannia. But their DNA, while having a lot in common with Eastern Europe, also has affinities with the Indus Valley....

The heads date from relatively late in ancient Egyptian history — between 806 bc and 124 ad.

This DNA is from a time much later than the period than the period of classical AE culture. This Haplogroup probably came into Egypt by way of the Greeks and other 'Levantines' who were more common in the later periods.Especially after the conquest of Egypt by Alexander in 332 BC. It might be helpful to find out where these Mummies were excavated at.

Other quick notes

Bosnian 'pyramids' equals hills

Pyramid built by AE, if you think otherwise think about this, why is only cultural evidence found in association with the pyramids from the AE? -Who were these other people who left absolutely no trace of themselves? While the AE left millions of artifacts and before them other cultures left hundred of thousands of artifacts but the is mysterious pyramid builting culture left absolutely nothing.....hmmmm

Originally posted by thePharaoh
reply to post by LUXUS

 

lol

thats nubia in the 18/1900s

egypt was split in two
valley and delta

no nubia back then mate

just land of punt, etc

Stop making stuff up Punt is what the Egyptians called Somalia whilst they called Nubia by the general word Kush, they called the land between the first and second cataract Tanehsu and they called the land between the second and third cataract Medja. In that region the Egyptians employed Nubians to secure the area and they called those nubians in the service of egyptians Medjay. The egyptians often used the general term vile-kush or wretched kush because they had constant problems with these neighbors who were trying to get in to upper Egypt and they would set fire to the Egyptian forts built to keep them out!


These are basically the people you are trying to flip the facts and assert that were responsible for the Egyptian civilization....pure fiction on your part!

btw Pharaoh have you had your dna tested you to see which haplogroup you belong to...bet you wont be happy when you enter that group into a genetic mapping software and find that Egypt doesn't lightup. In fact you will most probably contact the lab and tell them a terrible mistake must have taken place because your supposed to be a pharaoh

Originally posted by Danbones
King Menes, ( decendant from Sargon the great ) the first pharoh of the united upper and lower egypts, hander down of laws on stone tablets was an aryan....a goth ... (ha ha - a GOD)
books.google.ca...=onepage&q&f=false

so this DNA finding is more weight to Waddel's translations of the relevant hiroglyphs

What,
Menes predates sargon by 700 yeas

Originally posted by LUXUSbtw Pharaoh have you had your dna tested you to see which haplogroup you belong to...bet you wont be happy when you enter that group into a genetic mapping software and find that Egypt doesn't lightup. In fact you will most probably contact the lab and tell them a terrible mistake must have taken place because your supposed to be a pharaoh

edit on 2-6-2013 by LUXUS because: (no reason given)

i would love to

theban would light up.... if they had that category

fact is, they refuse to recongise the "mysterious A group"....


where do i go to do this?

reply to post by thePharaoh


Here ya go Pharaoh

DNA testing

Originally posted by thePharaoh

i would love to

theban would light up.... if they had that category

fact is, they refuse to recongise the "mysterious A group"....


where do i go to do this?

Glad your so sure, what you going to do if west Africa lights up lol

I would probably go with these guys www.familytreedna.com...

Originally posted by LUXUS

Originally posted by thePharaoh

i would love to

theban would light up.... if they had that category

fact is, they refuse to recongise the "mysterious A group"....


where do i go to do this?

Glad your so sure, what you going to do if west Africa lights up lol

I would probably go with these guys www.familytreedna.com...

why say that

i can trace it back at least 9 generations....the village called Abu-Hor
where aswan is now

From the book of Gates This is NOT the so-called races of the world nor is it a table of nations. Its the Herd of Ra eligible for Osirian Ressurection, i.e., people from the AE perspective living right next to them in the course of Sun Ra at sunrise, noon, and sunset. The Aegeans and other north Mediterraneans were left out. That's another reason why it's not an attempt at anthropology of the world but a sacred religious painting.

thenile.phpbb-host.com...


Folks from the Nile valley Libya and the Levant.

In other words non of the above are from the Black sea region even if some are lite-skinned


scene show groups of people, including the ancient Kmtjw ("ancient Egyptians") who clearly depicted themselves (on the far left of the scene) as jet *black* in skin tone and dressed IDENTICAL to the other jet black African people (the third group from the left) to the south. This rare 20th dynasty (1200 BCE) scene shows that the Egyptians saw themselves.
Ironically there is some mythical/legendary connect with the Black Sea region and Kemet but that connection according to the Greeks were settlements from the Nile Valley into the region.


We all know of the quote from Herodotus about the military colony left behind But what's amazing is the presence of Blacks in the area apparently of African decent to the present day.


,..a view by P.T English
www.jstor.org...


For the people of Colchis are evidently Egyptian, and this I perceived for myself before I heard it from others. So when I had come to consider the matter I asked them both; and the Colchians had remembrance of the Egyptians more than the Egyptians of the Colchians; but the Egyptians said they believed that the Colchians were a portion of the army of Sesostris. That this was so I conjectured myself not only because they are dark-skinned and have curly hair (this of itself amounts to nothing, for there are other races which are so), but also still more because the Colchians, Egyptians, and Ethiopians alone of all the races of men have practised circumcision from the first. The Phenicians and the Syrians who dwell in Palestine confess themselves that they have learnt it from the Egyptians, and the Syrians about the river Thermodon and the river Parthenios, and the Macronians, who are their neighbours, say that they have learnt it lately from the Colchians. These are the only races of men who practise circumcision, and these evidently practise it in the same manner as the Egyptians. Of the Egyptians themselves however and the Ethiopians, I am not able to say which learnt from the other, for undoubtedly it is a most ancient custom; but that the other nations learnt it by intercourse with the Egyptians, this among others is to me a strong proof, namely that those of the Phenicians who have intercourse with Hellas cease to follow the example of the Egyptians in this matter, and do not circumcise their children."
(Herodotus, The Histories, Book 2: 104)
wysinger.homestead.com...

Some modern historians regard Herodotus as unreliable, and even Herodotus cautioned the reader that his story is hearsay. But Herodotus' account is not the only claim of an African presence in Eastern Europe. In the late 4th century, Church Fathers St Jerome and Sophronius, wrote of Colchis as the "second Ethiopia" because of its black population.10

Saint Jerome, writing during the fourth century, called Colchis the "Second Ethiopia." Two hundred years later, Sophronius, patriarch of Jerusalem, described an "Ethiopian" presence in the same region. Even today, in the same district about which Herodotus wrote, exists a minute, black-skinned and woolly-haired community, although the argument is waged that the Africans currently occupying the region are there solely as the result of enslavement. Obviously, like many aspects of the Global African Community, there is much more research that needs to be done.
www.cwo.com...

The Nart Epic of Abkhazia (on Georgia's northwestern coast) is folklore believed to be thousands of years old. It tells of 100 black-skinned horsemen who visited the Caucasus and liked it so much some of them stayed.11 Dmitri Gulia (1874-1960), a Abkhazian linguist, ethnographer and historian, amassed a large collection of words and names that were similar in the Egyptian, Ethiopian and Abkhazian languages. The names included family names, names of pre-Christian deities, names of rivers and mountains. He also noted customs and folk beliefs Abkhazia seemed to share with Egypt and Ethiopia.

Kirke, Daughter of the Sun
Kirke (Circe) is the daughter of Helios (the Sun) and the Okeanid, Perseis, which would make her the grand-daughter of Okeanos (Ocean). Kirke was also the sister of king Aietes (Aeetes) of Kolchis (Colchis).

Originally posted by thePharaoh


why say that

i can trace it back at least 9 generations....the village called Abu-Hor
where aswan is now

In my way of thinking it is absolutely ridiculous to talk about what "your" ancestors did without knowing your haplogrupe and viewing it via DNA mapping to know exactly who they were.
Most of these afrocentrists who talk about how their ancestors did this or did that are to my eyes predominantly of west African origin and therefore are severely deluded as to who their ancestors are or what they did.

reply to post by Spider879


Firstly we know that ancient Egyptians painted females in yellow ocher and males in red ocher so taking that as a basis it is clear that the colors in these wall paintings cannot be used with accuracy unless you actually believe Egyptian females were born yellow and Egyptian males red. Analysis of Hair,Bone and dna is the only accurate method of finding who these people actually were.

Secondly I noticed that none of your photos look anything like modern Egyptians, would you like to remove them from the equation and if so why considering that dna taking from the bones of the ancient workers matched with theirs?

Thirdly the people of Colchis were not black and you could have found this out with a simple google search:

Colchis appears as the first Caucasian State to have achieved the coalescence of the newcomer. Colchis can be justly regarded as not a proto-Georgian, but a Georgian (West Georgian) kingdom. . . .It would seem natural to seek the beginnings of Georgian social history in Colchis, the earliest Georgian formation.

en.wikipedia.org...

They are tall in stature,and of a gross habit of body, while neither joint nor vein is visible. Their complexion is yellowish,as though they suffered from jaundice. Of all men they have the deepest voice, because the air theybreathe is not clear, but moist and turbid.

Hippocrates

Hippocrates is a doctor so I think we can safely assume he knows what jaundice looks like!

Fourthly there are numerous other ancient accounts of the appearance of ancient egyptians that afrocentrists would rather avoid for obvious reasons!

The Ethiopians stain the world and depict a race of men steeped in darkness; less sun-burnt are the natives of India; the land of Egypt, flooded by the Nile, darkens bodies more mildly owing to the inundation of its fields: it is a country nearer to us and its moderate climate imparts a medium tone.

Manilius, Astronomica 4.724

Medium tone (like modern egyptians) cannot be confused with dark black as you assert can it?

The appearance of the inhabitants is also not very different in India and Ethiopia: the southern Indians are rather more like Ethiopians as they are black to look on, and their hair is black; only they are not so snub-nosed or woolly-haired as the Ethiopians; the northern Indians are most like the Egyptians physically.

Arrian, Indica 6.9

Above we are told that Egyptians are not as dark and woolly haired or "snub-nosed" as the Ethiopians but are more like the inhabitant of north India. As you know the Brahmins come from north India and they are lighter skinned the those in the South of India. Actually north Indians have a similar skin tone to modern egyptians as you would expect, their hair is also similar to modern egyptians as you would expect again!

And before you say that modern Egyptians are Arab invaders:

The Egyptians are not Arabs, and both they and the Arabs are aware of this fact. They are Arabic-speaking, and they are Muslim indeed religion plays a greater part in their lives than it does in those either of the Syrians or the Iraqi. But the Egyptian, during the first thirty years of the [twentieth] century, was not aware of any particular bond with the Arab East... Egypt sees in the Arab cause a worthy object of real and active sympathy and, at the same time, a great and proper opportunity for the exercise of leadership, as well as for the enjoyment of its fruits. But she is still Egyptian first and Arab only in consequence, and her main interests are still domestic.

en.wikipedia.org...

and finally to settle the matter we are told that nubians on the border with upper Egypt are not as dark as Ethiopians but not as light as egyptians but somewhere in between ie he is saying nubians are darker then egyptians which is exactly how ancient egyptians depict them. This is for those afrocentrists who try to say nubians were the same colour as egyptians which is pure rubbish!

It was a market place to which the Ethiopians bring all the products of their country; and the Egyptians in their turn take them all away and bring to the same spot their own wares of equal value, so bartering what they have got for what they have not. Now the inhabitants of the marches (Nubian/Egyptians border) are not yet fully black but are half-breeds in matter of color, for they are partly not so black as the Ethiopians, yet partly more so than the Egyptians.

Flavius Philostratus: c.170 to c.247,

reply to post by LUXUS

Firstly we know that ancient Egyptians painted females in yellow ocher and males in red ocher so taking that as a basis it is clear that the colors in these wall paintings cannot be used with accuracy unless you actually believe Egyptian females were born yellow and Egyptian males red. Analysis of Hair,Bone and dna is the only accurate method of finding who these people actually were.

And other Africans did the same plus the Kemites depending on the era also painted their females in the same complexion as the men and talk of dna put them squarely with other Africans.

Thirdly the people of Colchis were not black and you could have found this out with a simple google search:

I said according to Greek legends and later accounts they were that's not in dispute from a mythological point of view

Hippocrates Hippocrates is a doctor so I think we can safely assume he knows what jaundice looks like! Fourthly there are numerous other ancient accounts of the appearance of ancient egyptians that afrocentrists would rather avoid for obvious reasons!

Yellowish skinned Colchians is only slightly less remarkable than black skinned Colchians plus what about the supposed cultural connection mentioned by others.

King Busiris and his Kemitian guards btw according to the Greeks and Etruscans well at-least sometimes the they looked like^^^..Hippocrates

heir complexion is yellowish,as though they suffered from jaundice.
Not that they had jaundice..

Herakles as black the AGs were funny like that..


Kemitian ladies painted as the same as the men

Byzantine view of the meeting between Abraham and kemities
I don't know if you live in a metropolitan area with large amount of Blacks for you would notice that blacks even from below the great desert have a wide variety of complexions some yellowish some very black notice the guy above and some reddish.

reply to post by Spider879



As said the Colchians are Caucasians with a yellowish skin tone who belong to haplogroups J2 and G, they are not black and they never were black.

Georgians call themselves Kartvelebi (ქართველები), their land Sakartvelo (საქართველო), and their language Kartuli (ქართული). According to The Georgian Chronicles, the ancestor of the Kartvelian people was Kartlos, the great grandson of the Biblical Japheth. Ancient Greeks (Strabo, Herodotus, Plutarch, Homer, etc.) and Romans (Titus Livius, Cornelius Tacitus, etc.) referred to early western Georgians as Colchians and eastern Georgians as Caucasian Iberians.

en.wikipedia.org...

" talk of dna put them squarely with other Africans. " Spider879

"Africans" is a wide term, for example there are Caucasian Africans such as the coptic egyptians, barbers,Colchians etc so yes dna tests do confirm that the ancient egyptians were "African". Only one dna study done by African tribes based on 8 str markers claimed they were black, that study was immediately shot out of the sky.

reply to post by LUXUS

As said the Colchians are Caucasians with a yellowish skin tone who belong to haplogroups J2 and G, they are not black and they never were black.

Yes Colchians lived in and about the Caucasus Mts with that said you are going to focus on the one ancient report that said they were yellowish and ignore all the rest that said they were black,and I fully expect most of the people in that area to be phenotypically and Genetically Europeans today, however the reason the ancient remarked upon their differences was because they seemed out of place culturally and physically.

"Africans" is a wide term, for example there are Caucasian Africans such as the coptic egyptians, barbers,Colchians etc so yes dna tests do confirm that the ancient egyptians were "African". Only one dna study done by African tribes based on 8 str markers claimed they were black, that study was immediately shot out of the sky.

And so are Eurasians and btw Coptic Egyptians are no more original descendants than non Coptics as alot of them have Greek,Syrian and Levantine origins and your Blacksea folks could not be founders of Kemet because they plot with J2 and G while Egyptians plot with other Africans with E and yes genotype does not necessarily correlate with phenotype but look again of the body plans Egyptians are super tropically adapted but Egypt is not in the tropics.

Now I am not suggesting that these modern Black..and for lack of a better term Caucasians are remnants of Snerwerst's or any 12th dynasty colony as they most likely came as Turkish soldiers and slaves but in view of the ancient and medieval reports of blacks and more likely of African decent in the area such reports should be treated with some respect.

The Tod Treasure Discovered on 8 February 1936 by a French team led by Fernand Bisson de la Roque beneath a 5th-century AD mud-brick church, excavators came upon a temple of Senusret I. Here, in the stone foundations, had been concealed the 'Tod Treasure'. A cache of Saite (26th-Dynasty) bronze figures of Osiris had just been brought to light and then, deeper in the same foundation sand underlying the temple, four cast copper caskets. These, to judge from the large copper nails sprinkled around, had originally been contained in caskets of wood which had rotted away. The four caskets were cleaned and found to be of two sizes: 18 in and 12 in in length. The two larger coffers were packed with lapis lazuli in both raw and worked states. The smaller with ingots and other items of gold (6.98 kg in total) and intact and crushed silver vessels, silver ingots and other items (weighing 8.87 kg in total). Interestingly, the best pieces - those in a worked state or those which were intact - had in antiquity been placed carefully on the top, so that they would be seen first when the coffers were opened. The boxes lids and front end-panels have cartouche containing the names and titles of Amenemhat II of the 12th Dynasty identifying, so the archaeologists assumed, the king by whom the treasure had been deposited, perhaps in his father Senusret I's memory. Here before them, evidently, lay a unique deposit of foreign tribute - hailing from as far way as Afghanistan in the east (source of the lapis lazuli) and the Mediterranean world to the west (apparent origin of the silver vessels).

www.ancient-egypt.co.uk...

The first penetration of the Black sea area was supposedly done in the 12th dyansty. during the reign of Senusret III and Amenemhet III (Memmon..??) who came from the boarder lands of upper kemet proper and the lands of the Nahasu

Thus doing he traversed the continent, until at last he passed over to Europe from Asia and subdued the Scythians and also the Thracians. These, I am of opinion, were the furthest people to which the Egyptian army came, for in their country the pillars are found to have been set up, but in the land beyond this they are no longer found.
From this point he turned and began to go back; and when he came to the river Phasis, what happened then I cannot say for certain, whether the king Sesostris himself divided off a certain portion of his army and left the men there as settlers in the land, or whether some of his soldiers were wearied by his distant marches and remained by the river Phasis

The pillars which Sesostris king of Egypt set up in the various countries are for the most part no longer to be seen extant; but in Syria Palestine I myself saw them existing with the inscription upon them which I have mentioned and the emblem.
www.reshafim.org.il...

edit on 4-6-2013 by Spider879 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by Spider879


Well I'm not sticking to the 1 statement that said they were yellow, I gave you several ancient accounts which all say they had a medium skin tone, they were said to look most like north Indians in terms of colour, hair type etc

Now interestingly enough if you put a photo of a north Indian next to a modern Egyptian guess what, they look similar just as stated in those ancient accounts.

As for the super tropical adapted body plan, I know the subject well enough as I'm sure you do to to know that doesn't = black

btw Senusret had no time for nubians if you read his boundary stele its clear he hated them!

""They are not people one respects; they are wretches, craven hearted. My majesty has seen it, it is not an untruth. I have captured their women, I have carried off their dependents..."

reply to post by LUXUS

As for the super tropical adapted body plan, I know the subject well enough as I'm sure you do to to know that doesn't = black

No but it is suggestive of tropical origins and not northerners who are cold adapted and we have plenty of evidence that they came out of the Sahara and the Great Lakes regions as well as the Horn.

Moving on to softer tissues than bone, one histological study on Egyptian mummies (Mekota and Vermehren 2005) noted in passing that the skin cells were packed with melanin (the pigment that determines human skin color) as expected for people “of Negroid [African] origin”, although they neither specified the exact density nor went into depth. An earlier study by Chapel et al (1981) also reported heavy pigmentation in Egyptian skin cells.

To access the full study you may have to pay for it or get it through your college
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov...

The color of hair, skin, and eyes in animals mainly depends on the quantity, quality, and distribution of the pigment melanin, which occurs in two types: black to brown eumelanin and yellow to reddish pheomelanin. Microanalytical methods to quantify the amounts of eumelanin and pheomelanin in biological materials were developed in 1985. The methods are based on the chemical degradation of eumelanin to pyrrole-2,3,5-tricarboxylic acid and of pheomelanin to aminohydroxyphenylalanine isomers, which can be analyzed and quantitated by high performance liquid chromatography. This review summarizes and compares eumelanin and pheomelanin contents in various pigmented tissues obtained from humans, mice, and other animals. These methods have become valuable tools to study the functions of melanin, the control of melanogenesis, and the actions and interactions of pigmentation genes. The methods have also found applications in many clinical studies. High levels of pheomelanin are found only in yellow to red hairs of mammals and in red feathers of birds. It remains an intriguing question why lower vertebrates such as fishes do not synthesize pheomelanin. Detectable levels of pheomelanin are detected in human skin regardless of race, color, and skin type.However, eumelanin is always the major constituent of epidermal melanin, and the skin color appears to be determined by the quantity of melanin produced but not by the quality.

As for the 11th and 12th dynasties they are of southern extraction but nationally Kemitians look at it this way the house of Windsor English are of German extraction (Saxe Gotha Coburg) yet fought two brutal wars with their German cousins,American generals and Admirals carried names like Eisenhower and Nimitz the same was for these two dynasties.

In Neferti, King Snofru holds court and a sage is introduced to entertain him with 'choice words'. The sage, called Neferti, asks him whether he wishes to hear about the past or the future, and the king chooses the future. Neferti then goes on to describe at some length a vision of a future Egypt riven with chaos, where all social and natural norms are inverted. Towards the end of the text, Neferti predicts the advent of a future king, called Ameny, who will restore order to the country.
“ Then a king will come from the South,
Ameny, the justified, by name
Son of a woman of Ta-Seti, child of Upper Egypt.
He will take the white crown,
He will wear the red crown;
He will join the Two Mighty Ones..
Rejoice, O people of his time,
The son of man will make his name for all eternity! ..
Asiatics will fall to his sword,
Libyans will fall to his flame,
Rebels to his wrath, traitors to his might,
As the serpent on his brow subdues the rebels for him.
One will build the Walls-of-the-Ruler
To bar Asiatics from entering Egypt
en.wikipedia.org...

This was for Amenemhat the guy pictured above Senwoset was his son. note Ta-Seti is the land of the Bow mis-named Nubia.

Nebhepetre Mentuhotep II, 11th Dynasty
Who called himself son of the first born Nahasi.

Khemsait.
Wife of the king.

Pharaoh Mentuhotep II daughter Princess Aushead. The drawing of Aushead was taken from her fathers tomb.
wysinger.homestead.com...

These are the kings many ancients claimed had military influence of the north Med and the Black Sea region.

I'm so happy to see that this was posted! it truly does it seem to be as it is a secret since 11 think that's such and mainstream define discovery although there have been several of course would grab popular attention and media..

most people do not have a clue about genetics let alone a clue as to the realistic opposite end of the spoon that mean stream feeds them. . fact is that I is an extremely mysterious and I explain a bowl why DNA haplogroup which goes beyond not sitting with the typical mainstream Out of Africa doctrine. .