Jehovah's Witnesses believe UN will ban Religion

the wise men were sent by God....so God likes birthdays
they were not sent by Herod...
Intercepted by Herod and they thwarted his black plan

PS, my last girlfriend for three years is JW as is her family on both sides for two generations, her sister is disfellowshiped and does not exist...
thats for having sex before marriage...by the way she is married now and is still a nonperson!
thats a cult in my opinion,
and I went for two years and I also had students that were JW, I know how well meaning they are, but the origins and the head office are a cult.
sorry, that is in no way a reflection of the wonderful souls who are honest God loving JW
the way the organization is run is not any different then old school catholic,
the pope is infallible...and so is the watchtower

the orgins of the book they choose to call a bible is quite corrupt
which is one proof to their cultness
they have 8 of the 9 decrees of a cult the one they are missing is the central single figure like the pope, instead they have a commitee the
Watchtower.

Being brainwashed does not make someone a bad person, but the logic of the arugments on a theological level have no logic and to fight for non logic is a sign of brainwashing.



[edit on 10-5-2007 by junglelord]

[edit on 10-5-2007 by junglelord]

is the JW a cult?
read this then decide

Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult? The answer one gives to this question would depend on how one defines the term cult. For the purposes of this two-part article I will be using the nine-point definition Ronald Enroth outlines in his booklet, "What is a Cult?" (p. 31).

Ronald Enroth is professor of sociology at Westmont College, Santa Barbara. As a sociologist, his definition covers sociological rather than theological points.

The nine points are:
1. Authoritarian
2. Oppositional
3. Exclusivistic
4. Legalistic
5. Subjective
6. Persecution-Conscious
7. Sanction-Oriented
8. Esoteric
9. Antisacerdotal (Enroth, pp. 17-25).

Using this definition, Jehovah’s Witnesses will be evaluated as to how closely their organization fits these nine points. Please note: The Jehovah's Witnesses' organization is known as the Watchtower. Throughout this paper, the abbreviations JWs and WT will be used for these names respectively.


www.dtl.org...
www.dtl.org...

Conclusion

I started this two-part article by asking the question, "Are Jehovah's Witnesses a cult?" I defined the word cult by using a nine point definition by sociologist, Ronald Enroth. Throughout this paper, I have demonstrated that the WT matches up almost perfectly to each point as defined by Enroth. Therefore, the conclusion reached is Jehovah's Witnesses are in fact a cult based on a sociological definition.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by junglelord]

Actually it seems to be a Jewish fabrication to me. I read in the past that they have many problems with the U.N., because the U.N. council not really likes what they're doing with the Palestinians back at Israel and they cannot buy the congress men of the U.N. too. Before someone would say I'm mistaken, here is a line from that link to prove my claiming...

7. To begin, with immediate effect, the destruction or reassignment of predominantly religious buildings, such as churches, mosques and temples.

They not mention synagogues. The man's intention who is created this hoax was to turn the other main religions against the United Nations. If the U.N. would want to do anything against the religions, what I really doubt, they would add the Synagogues to the first place.

So if they cannot buy the U.N., the logical step is to disgrace the U.N. in the eyes of the other religions. At least they've failed.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by Dark Crystalline]

They may be a cult but i think, and history proves me correct, Jesus and Allah cults are more dangerous. Not all cults are evil. For example some Satanic cults teach about freedom, can you believe that? If not, educate yourself.

Originally posted by junglelord
the wise men were sent by God....so God likes birthdays
they were not sent by Herod...

I thought this was interesting.
The Bible does not specifically saythat there were three maji. IT has been assumed that there were three because three gifts are mentioned,
For all we know there could have been 2 or even twenty maji.

If Jesus was in Bethlehem, why did the star lead them to Jerusalem first?

Why does Matthew 2:11 state that they visited Jesus in a house instead of a manger.

Also too, 8 days after Jesus was born, according to Jewish custon he would have been brought to the temple to be circumcised.
Luke 2:22 says that the followed the laws of Moses regarding the days of purifying. According to Lev 12 that seems to add up to about 40 days.

So Joseph & Mary would have traveled to Jerusalem, got Jesus circumcised & then 40 days after his birth Mary would have had to offer a sacrifice at the temple.

But according to tradition, the maji visited Jesus on the night of his birth, but this could not be true, because Matthew says that as soon as the maji left , Joseph & mary were instructed to flee to Egypt. It doesn't make sense that they were instructed to flee to Egypt, but then went directly to Jerusalem where King Herod was waiting for them and then waited around for 40 days.

I think the Maji visited them much later, after Joseph & mary returned from Egypt and took up residence in a house. This would also seem to coincide with Herods decree to kill all boys 2 years and younger.

I know this line of reasoning flies in the face of traditional views, but just because views are trditional and widely accepted does not mean that they are right.

I grew up in a home where my Mother was Catholic and my father went to the Church of Christ. We never celebrated Christmas because the Church of Christ had an official stand that it had pagan origins. Most of the people in his church celebrated it, but my dad refused to. I think he was just too cheap to buy presents. lol

the Beast of the Revelations is the UN and thats the identity of the JW beliefs on the UN

Originally posted by detonator
They may be a cult but i think, and history proves me correct, Jesus and Allah cults are more dangerous. Not all cults are evil. For example some Satanic cults teach about freedom, can you believe that? If not, educate yourself.

Maybe I misunderstand something here, but... So in your view, in this case Jesus and Allah "cults" (Christian and Muslim religions) are dangerous, but for example the Satanic "cult" (Which is that religion what for are you referring here? Don't tell me. I have one guess...), which is teaching freedom, what is an illusion and a delusion is good and great. Geez! I need to admit, you have one hell of a fantasy. Serving the evil is good. Oh, my... Well. It's a great illusion, like everything else in this view.

When the word Cult is thrown around it is usually used in a derogatory way, with the purpose of demeaning a group on minimalizing them,

Here is the definition according to Webster

Main Entry: cult
Pronunciation: 'k<
Function: noun
Usage: often attributive
Etymology: French & Latin; French culte, from Latin cultus care, adoration, from colere to cultivate -- more at WHEEL
1 : formal religious veneration : WORSHIP
2 : a system of religious beliefs and ritual; also : its body of adherents
3 : a religion regarded as unorthodox or spurious; also : its body of adherents
4 : a system for the cure of disease based on dogma set forth by its promulgator
5 a : great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work (as a film or book); especially : such devotion regarded as a literary or intellectual fad b : the object of such devotion c : a usually small group of people characterized by such devotion

www.m-w.com...

Definition 1 & 2 can apply to all religions.

Definition 3 could apply to JW's in the sense that their teachings are unorthodox. BY this definition the first century Christions were also a cult.

Definition 4 does not apply in this case.

Definition 5 does not seem to aplly to JW's, unless you link it to the movement to preach what they beleive to be the truth. This would also apply to any organized religion that is known for a particular ativity.

Personally I think Sect better defines them.

Main Entry: 1sect
Pronunciation: \ˈsekt\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English secte, from Anglo-French & Late Latin & Latin; Anglo-French, group, faction, from Late Latin secta organized ecclesiastical body, from Latin, course of action, way of life, probably from sectari to pursue, frequentative of sequi to follow — more at sue
Date: 14th century
1 a: a dissenting or schismatic religious body; especially : one regarded as extreme or heretical b: a religious denomination
2archaic : sex 1
3 a: a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader
mw1.merriam-webster.com...

THe jews in the first century referred to the Christians as sect.

Acts 8:22  But we think it proper to hear from you what your thoughts are, for truly as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against.”

However this word is probably not demeaning enough for some.

Originally posted by Dark Crystalline

Originally posted by detonator
They may be a cult but i think, and history proves me correct, Jesus and Allah cults are more dangerous. Not all cults are evil. For example some Satanic cults teach about freedom, can you believe that? If not, educate yourself.

Maybe I misunderstand something here, but... So in your view, in this case Jesus and Allah "cults" (Christian and Muslim religions) are dangerous, but for example the Satanic "cult" (Which is that religion what for are you referring here? Don't tell me. I have one guess...), which is teaching freedom, what is an illusion and a delusion is good and great. Geez! I need to admit, you have one hell of a fantasy. Serving the evil is good. Oh, my... Well. It's a great illusion, like everything else in this view.

As i said before, read some good texts and you will see not all Satanists are lunatics. Also not all from other religions and cults are bad, but we need to admit, history and scandals today show how little effect religion has on some people and how even respected priests can serve most dark from abyss.

If we want to survive we need to avoid stereotyping and learn how to see beyond holy books and man-made rules.

As for Jehovah's Witnesses i always liked them and also talked to some, they always dress nice, have nice manners and we can only wish more people would be like them. They even offered free Bible lessons to me.

[edit on 10-5-2007 by detonator]

[quote
I think the Maji visited them much later, after Joseph & mary returned from Egypt and took up residence in a house. This would also seem to coincide with Herods decree to kill all boys 2 years and younger.



I waited too long to edit my post so let me correct myself here.

I wanted to say that after Jesus was born Mary completed the purification process in Jerusalem. Took about 40 days per the Jewish law.
She would have had to make a sacrifice in the temple.

Then I believe that Mary & joseph went back to Bethlehem and took up residence in a house. The Maji were desribed as visiting them in a house, not a manger or stable. After the majis visit, the angel instructed Mary & joseph to flee to Egypt. Which they obviously did.

So the traditional view that the Maji visited Jesus on the day that he was born doesn't coincide with the what the rest of the timeframe in the Bible. Sorry for my previous mis-statement. I was in a rush and didn't take the time to review what I wrote before I posted it.

Sorry, my mistake. The article on Aids was published in 1983 not 1993. I knew that - put it down to 'driver error'! Wasn't till I read it again after I'd posted that I realised my mistake.

Sparky, you are absolutely right.

It is interesting how different the world's perception of Jesus's birth is to the actual account in the Bible.

There is no mention of the amount of 'Wise Men' or Magi (astrologers) - three was purely assumed due to the fact that there were three gifts.

Another thing that doesn't ring true is why would God direct Astrologers to visit his son when the Bible shows quite clearly that this is a practice that God condemns (Deut 18:10-12)

Thinking about this logically it is blatantly obvious who 'planted' the star.

When Satan plotted to destroy the babe Jesus in the days of Herod the Great, whom did he use? Astrologers! Yes, the so-called wise men from the East were astrologers. Says the Bible: “Astrologers from eastern parts came to Jerusalem, saying: ‘Where is the one born king of the Jews? For we saw his star when we were in the east and we have come to do him obeisance.’ Then Herod secretly summoned the astrologers and carefully ascertained from them the time of the star’s appearing, and, when sending them to Bethlehem, he said: ‘Go make a careful search for the young child, and when you have found it report back to me.’” “The star they had seen when they were in the east went ahead of them, until it came to a stop above where the young child was.”—Matt. 2:1, 2, 7-9.

This star phenomenon that guided the astrologers was not put there by God. The astrologers were tools of Herod, who was so determined to murder the newborn baby he asked the astrologers to report back to him. How was the murder plot foiled? God intervened and gave the astrologers divine warning not to return to Herod. (Matt. 2:12) The star was of demon origin, it being a light used by the Devil to guide astrologers in his scheme to locate Jesus for destruction by Herod. At seeing that his plot had been foiled, Herod fell into an incandescent rage and ordered the execution of all children under the age of 2 (so he had ascertained that Jesus may well have been that age by then).

The other interesting thing is that the Astrologers went to Jerusalem saying 'Where is the one born king of the Jews? For we saw his star [when we were] in the east, and we have come to do him obeisance'. If the 'star' was leading them to Jesus, why did it not take them straight to him? The account shows that they were summoned to Herod and told to go and search for the child and when they found him to report back to Herod, so the 'star' did not actually lead them to Jesus - they had to search for him! It appears that Herod did not know about Jesus until the Astrologers told him - yet another indication that this was not from God.

People have been indoctrinated into believing that the wonderful star was put there as a guiding light to lead all these lovely people to the newborn baby. Sorry to burst the bubble, it ain't true.

Another interesting point in the account of Luke is that when Jesus was born Jehovah's angel appeared to the shepherds followed by the heavenly host all praising God. These men were so amazed by this experience that they hurried to the manger, telling everyone else on the way about it (so you can just imagine that there may have been an great deal more than just a few shepherds crowding into the manger!). If the Astrologers were going to be advised by God to visit his son, why would he not just send another angel or two or hundreds? The simple answer is that a) the event with the Astrologers happened a lot later, and b) the guiding light was not from God.

Interesting isn't it when you really look at the account properly and think about it logically.

Cult, sect, religion, call us what you will. as long as we're called by God, that's all that matters.

Sorry to hear that you know someone who is disfellowshipped. The whole point of excommunication is a) to keep the congregation clean which is a scriptural requirement, & b) to encourage the individual to be repentant.

Whilst being disfellowshipped means that the individual cannot have contact with the congregation and only necessary limited contact with their family there is no reason why, once they have put their life right & developed a repentant attitude that they cannot be re-instated.

This may seem harsh to others who have accepted this world's immoral standards as their own, but it is things like this that makes us different. Being different is the whole point. "Jas 4:4 - Adulteresses [spiritual, emotional or moral!], do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God".

This world is SO far removed from God's standards that they haven't a hoot of respect for those that do wish to follow them. 'Do your own thing', 'Me, me, me, 'dog eat dog'. We all have our own individual 'Gods' that we worship, whether at the altar of materialism, music, sex, etc. The world is in such a mess because the world in general does not take God seriously. They are so busy chasing after their own selfish ends that they don't ever stop to realise that they are actually bringing about their own demise. We are all striving to be individual yet few stop to realise that we are all following one crowd or other at the end of the day. It's up to us which 'crowd' we wish to follow!

When Adam and Eve decided to live their lives independently of God, he let them, but he did point out that they and their offspring would have to bear the responsibility of that decision. Well, here we are and what a rip-roaring success that was!

We live in a world permeated through and through by selfish and evil infuences. A world where people are shot dead for a few coppers in their pockets. A world where beautiful little children are bullied, abused and even murdered by their own parents. A world where those little children have grown up in such appalling environments that they believe that this is all there is. Where they are trained to rob and maim others. A world where millions are spent on armaments yet the mountain of waste food in some areas can't be shared with those who have nothing. A world run on greed, corruption, immorality and hatred. A world so full of pollution that the rivers are poisoned and the air is dead. A world where the land is so abused that nothing is ever put back and the produce is nutritionally worthless.

For all their puny efforts, there isn't one person on this earth who can put it right. The damage is done. That's why we take Jehovah seriously when he says he will sort it out, and destroy the 'wicked'. This is not an empty threat!

There is no 'on the fence'. We're either on his side or not. If we start a new job, we don't just go off & do what we want, we go to the boss & find out what he wants us to do and we get instructed to enable us to do the job properly & accurately. Same with God. It is up to us as individuals to find out what he wants us to do & make sure that we are being given the right information.

If you want to hide a tree, the most logical place to put it is in a forest. Satan has surrounded the 'Truth' from the Bible with hundreds of conflicting ideas and tenets to the point that people are so confused they just tar all religion with the same brush & ignore it or just pick one that suits their lifestyle or their ethic - "to have their ears tickled" as the Bible succinctly puts it. The Bible even tells us that Satan turns himself into an 'Angel of Light' when he chooses, to make what he is doing palatable & enjoyable. They're in his trap.....

Yes i agree but many times i see people blame Satan for just anything bad. Bible was corrupted and censored but i think free will of the man to do so is to blame not Satan. After all they burned witches with that corrupted Bible. It can be a good book too, but you should un-censor it first and remove all insanity from it.

Satan must respect free will as God respects it, he can only tempt man that way he also helps God creating better man not just some sheep on remote control.

Yes tis true that we can't blame Satan for our choice to do wicked things, for our use, or misuse of our free will whatever we use it for, however, he is responsible for the general all-pervasive air of this system.

He is the unseen influence manipulating everything around us. Because society as a whole has become so immune to the immorality, amorality, materialism, hedonism & greed, etc around us to the point that we consider it the 'norm', it is not evident to most just how evil he actually is. The strength lies not in running with the crowd that accepts all this stuff as normal, but in resisting it. Satan is out to destroy true christians - he doesn't need the world - he already owns it (he wouldn't have tempted Jesus with it if he didn't!) & will use anything in his power to do so. He wants Jehovah's sovereignty & wants to prove that no one will serve God out of love and their own free will. So lower the world's standards & make true christians an object of ridicule because they choose not to follow this course!

“Because you do not continue running with them in this course to the same low sink of debauchery, they are puzzled and go on speaking abusively of you.”—1 Pet. 4:4.

God teaches us how to benefit ourselves - Isaiah 48:17, 18: “I, Jehovah, am your God, the One teaching you to benefit yourself, the One causing you to tread in the way in which you should walk. O if only you would actually pay attention to my commandments! Then your peace would become just like a river, and your righteousness like the waves of the sea.”

However few choose to listen to his wise counsel. "In those days before the flood, [people were] eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away.” Jesus said that people would be acting just like that before this world ends.—Matthew 24:37-39. Carrying on oblivious!

The Bible is not and has never been 'wrong'. What is wrong is the way man chooses to interpret it. If you look at the Bible as a whole document it becomes evident that a lot of the bits that have been extracted have not been understood properly. We can all find odd scriptures to back up our ideas, but when you tie them in with the rest of the Bible it becomes evident that they don't necessarily mean what we think they mean. I have read the Bible many times over and use it all the time. It is not corrupt (only the men who lift out what suits them), it is not 'censored' (not quite sure what you mean by that!) & neither it is contradictory (unless you pull out odd bits that are then out of context).

Who are the sheep? If you mean it in a defamatory sense, then all people are sheep, blindly following everyone else. We all belong to one crowd or another! Are you into Gothic? Then you belong to the 'Gothic' crowd. Are you into heavy metal? Then you are following the 'Heavy Metal' crowd. Are you into the queueing up outside Sainbury's just to get a free designer bag crowd? Depends where all these sheep are going...........

Jesus likened his disciples to sheep because they are obedient, trusting, loyal and gentle & they recognise their shepherd. You can mix hundreds of sheep from different flocks and they will all split off and follow their own shepherd. It is amazing to see. But Jesus likened his disciples to sheep from his point of view as a loving shepherd. They need to be treated with kindness. The shepherd gets to know his sheep individually - seems amazing to us when they all look the same, but he knows each one and its characteristics. The shepherd loves his sheep and they respond to that love.

Jesus, of course, was speaking figuratively, using an illustration that people around him could relate to. You may not relate to that and I don't either (I can only assume that the shepherd must become immune to the smell........!) But it is fitting in its context and very apt in making the point.

PS. You can suggest to Satan that he respects our free will, but somehow I don't think he'll be listening...................

PPs. Who are the ones on remote control? Old Nick is laughing his head off at all the lemmings who are going down with this 'Titanic' sinking system. He's got them right where he wants them and they are totally oblivious. He's going down and he's taking them with him.............

Satan must respect free will. He is able only to tempt man, but yet he is very intelligent so even holy men are not safe from him. For example when someone kills in name of God this is not what God wants, but what man decides to do.

And this can also lead us to logical conclusion any holy book advocating violence is wrong and not holy. Jesus never advocated violence, that's only 'book' i need to know.

Sheep on remote, i meant people without free will and without challenges to help them evolve. Satan is doing God a favor by tempting, so people can improve and develop morals, principles and so on.

Originally posted by Fluffbrain
Cult, sect, religion, call us what you will. as long as we're called by God, that's all that matters.

Sorry to hear that you know someone who is disfellowshipped. The whole point of excommunication is a) to keep the congregation clean which is a scriptural requirement, & b) to encourage the individual to be repentant.

Whilst being disfellowshipped means that the individual cannot have contact with the congregation and only necessary limited contact with their family there is no reason why, once they have put their life right & developed a repentant attitude that they cannot be re-instated.

This may seem harsh to others who have accepted this world's immoral standards as their own, but it is things like this that makes us different. Being different is the whole point. "Jas 4:4 - Adulteresses [spiritual, emotional or moral!], do you not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God".

This world is SO far removed from God's standards that they haven't a hoot of respect for those that do wish to follow them. 'Do your own thing', 'Me, me, me, 'dog eat dog'. We all have our own individual 'Gods' that we worship, whether at the altar of materialism, music, sex, etc. The world is in such a mess because the world in general does not take God seriously. They are so busy chasing after their own selfish ends that they don't ever stop to realise that they are actually bringing about their own demise. We are all striving to be individual yet few stop to realise that we are all following one crowd or other at the end of the day. It's up to us which 'crowd' we wish to follow!

When Adam and Eve decided to live their lives independently of God, he let them, but he did point out that they and their offspring would have to bear the responsibility of that decision. Well, here we are and what a rip-roaring success that was!

We live in a world permeated through and through by selfish and evil infuences. A world where people are shot dead for a few coppers in their pockets. A world where beautiful little children are bullied, abused and even murdered by their own parents. A world where those little children have grown up in such appalling environments that they believe that this is all there is. Where they are trained to rob and maim others. A world where millions are spent on armaments yet the mountain of waste food in some areas can't be shared with those who have nothing. A world run on greed, corruption, immorality and hatred. A world so full of pollution that the rivers are poisoned and the air is dead. A world where the land is so abused that nothing is ever put back and the produce is nutritionally worthless.

For all their puny efforts, there isn't one person on this earth who can put it right. The damage is done. That's why we take Jehovah seriously when he says he will sort it out, and destroy the 'wicked'. This is not an empty threat!

There is no 'on the fence'. We're either on his side or not. If we start a new job, we don't just go off & do what we want, we go to the boss & find out what he wants us to do and we get instructed to enable us to do the job properly & accurately. Same with God. It is up to us as individuals to find out what he wants us to do & make sure that we are being given the right information.

If you want to hide a tree, the most logical place to put it is in a forest. Satan has surrounded the 'Truth' from the Bible with hundreds of conflicting ideas and tenets to the point that people are so confused they just tar all religion with the same brush & ignore it or just pick one that suits their lifestyle or their ethic - "to have their ears tickled" as the Bible succinctly puts it. The Bible even tells us that Satan turns himself into an 'Angel of Light' when he chooses, to make what he is doing palatable & enjoyable. They're in his trap.....

boy that disfellowship example leads nowhere to Christ and to forgive 70Xs a day...
the disfellowship is due to the cult nature of the "religion", not any holiness thingy.
sorry.
PS the lady in question is disfellowshiped for premarital sex.
They are married now.
and still disfellowship?
sorry its a cult, not called by God called by the watchtower


[edit on 12-5-2007 by junglelord]

Originally posted by junglelord
boy that disfellowship example leads nowhere to Christ and to forgive 70Xs a day...
the disfellowship is due to the cult nature of the "religion", not any holiness thingy.
sorry.
PS the lady in question is disfellowshiped for premarital sex.
They are married now.
and still disfellowship?
sorry its a cult, not called by God called by the watchtower


[edit on 12-5-2007 by junglelord]

Yes she is, until she seeks counsel to be reinstated. I've been there. More than once. The first time I was reinstated inside of 2 months. I haven't gone back this time. Before going further may I ask what faith you subscribe to?

I see no justification for those actions.
They are not Christ like
They have nothing to do with forgiveness which is a personel thing between you and God...not controlled by catholic priests or watchtower elders.

What faith do I suscribe too?

I am heavenly class, I will live after death in Heaven...you being earthly class will not.



[edit on 12-5-2007 by junglelord]