A look into the mind of an EDL supporter

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by buster2010

 

That is another example of misrepresentation to further the racist cause. Someone is being offensive while waving a flag around and when they get stopped its the flag that was the problem, yeah right.

That depends on what was written on the flag. And if you had read the comments you would see the person that made the video even said the flag should have been removed.

Originally posted by Mads1987
There was recently a thread about a women in the UK, who had been removed from a shopping area after waving a EDL flag around (English Defence Leauge), and spewing racist remarks.

/....

Obviously there is a fine line between forcing opinions on people, and educating them. But it is naturally in any society's best interest to have well informed people, and also to have some sort of consensus on what direction said society should move in.

There isn't much of a line between "forcing opinions on people" and indoctrinating them. There is a great difference between indoctrination and education. Indoctrination makes it so someone thinks (parrots) like the system, education makes it so someone can think for themselves (critical thinking).

Anything coming out of the government is either propaganda or indoctrination peppered with a limited number of facts. A good indication of this is consensus driven "learning", the Delphi process and/or anything you can see on the MSM. It's all agenda driven.

Cheers - Dave

reply to post by buster2010


The edl flag, yes. If it had an offensive slogan on it then I don't doubt the police were right to confiscate it. I was referring to the initial pro-racist spin that tried to present the story as if she had been arrested for carrying a Union Flag, which is just an extension of the racists favourite rabble rousing fallacy that "I can't call myself English in my own country anymore".

reply to post by bobs_uruncle

Anything coming out of the government is either propaganda or indoctrination

That statement is itself a form of indoctrination which leaves no room for critical thinking. Better, I believe, to evaluate each piece of information you come by on its own merits, regardless of origin.

On the day that anonymous declare war on the EDL I am reluctant to even bite on this thread,because of the chance it is infact part of that war,but I will.

The left roll this video out constantly to justify their own brand of fascism.

The other day 1500 people attended an edl protest in newcastle UK.
There is a reason there are not many interviews from that event.
The event was peaceful and only around 7 people were arrested.
No doubt the 7 who were arrested were the same kind of idiots in the video.

There is an organised effort to portray them a certain way. This organisation
now it seems includes a group described by some as cyber (maybe even government sponsored) terrorists.

The EDL do not represent me, but if I assume they are monsters by buying into propaganda
without even researching who they really are I would be a fool.

I personally really dislike the EDL. Their overall ethos, whether they like it or not and whether it's deserved or not, is one of ignorance, violence, and extremism. It's a shame really, because their desires are legitimate ones that reflect, in a focused and more importantly active way, the overall concern of the majority of the indigenous British population.

If only an EDL-like organization existed that was full of intellectuals and the upper-middle class with a different "face" that they projected with rationality, desire, and more importantly, will.

In my travels around the world, mainly to places of conflict, which resumes the beginning of next week, I've noticed an interesting pattern. Those who live in the middle to lower classes of society usually notice and act on there being something fundamentally wrong with the society first before the upper-middle and upper classes. Financial buffering is part of it, but the lack of will by the upper-middle and upper classes is also a big distinction.

The upper-middle and upper classes have more to lose so to speak as they've done well in that societal system, usually at another's expense, but regardless they've invested heavily in the system that put them in that position. From that perspective, they are more loyal to their status, possessions, and the perceived well being of their family, than to the original society that allowed them to get to such a position in the first place. Even if that original society is rotting or no longer existent, it's hard for them to see and feel it. That's not to say all are like this, however.

What is needed is an organization like "British Professionals for British Culture" or something like that. The UK isn't one of the largest economies in Europe and historically British culture isn't the most influential culture in the world for no reason. Look how many countries around the world speak English as an alternate or "high" language. Heck, even China and Taiwan, when they do talk, sometimes do it in English to avoid confusion over innuendo and insinuation. Either way, the British system of society is very apparently one of the most successful societal systems in the world today. It is currently being undermined by an amalgamation of other systems that would seek to replace it with a historically shown less competitive societal system.

If this could be conveyed with rational reason, a dispassionate ethos, and implacable willful action by the upper-middle class, then you could see a pretty real reversal of the subversion taking place in the UK right now. It's at the tail end of it's "demoralization" timetable and is getting ready for the "destabilization" timetable. The subversion process needs to be reversed, and soon. Ever subsequent phase takes more effort to reverse, I've seen it first hand in 3rd world countries.

The EDL's origins can be tracked back to a lose gang of Luton football hooligans who were protesting against a demonstration by al-Muhajiroun who were protesting during the marches of returning solider's from Afghanistan.

that to me is a very fair and justifiable reason to protest, so is political protest against surging immigration they are legitimate gripes to protest against.

My issue with the EDL is how they go about that, they have gone from protesting against Al-Muhajiroun to branding all of Islam as "evil" and have adopted what amounts to a xenophobic crusade to rid Britain of Muslims. In my view being brown and Muslim is just as British as being white and Christian. They have hijacked the legitimate political grips of immigration and terrorism and warped them into Islamophobic movement that only appeals to idiots.

I mean when you break it down they are tugs, they cover their face with balaclava's, there leaders all have criminal records and there "protests" usually turn into "riots".

I find it sick how they take advantage of the killing of Lee Rigby and i applaud "help for Hero's" for refusing any donations form Tommy Robertson the leader of the EDL who is actually Irish, might be using a fake name and has a criminal record.

just a band of stupid thugs pretending to have a valid political point.

they don't, the "English Defense League" is as far from English/British as you can get.

PS, OP i love that video!

reply to post by redoubt


My point is that the reason the muslim culture is what it is, is because it is very conservative. IT doesn't allow for much progress, cause so much of their history, traditions and culture is considered holy i.e. they worship their history to a degree where it becomes problematic.
I personally would hate to live with such limitations. But the thing I find funny is that the exact people who wish to fight the muslims, both literally and figuratively, are often just as fanatic about their traditions and heritage as the muslims.

I am not a fan of any kind of fanaticism, no matter what side it is coming from - my enemy's enemy is NOT my friend.

I don't agree with the dear Churchill.

Originally posted by DaRAGE
Man that was a bad interview. Was he stoned? But i get the jist. He doesn't want his country to have Sharia law imposed anywhere in his country. He wants it to remain British law. Sharia is a religious law that should not be forced onto people.

They have these zones now in Britain where laws to ban drinking alcohol because of the local numbers of religious Muslims living in that area not liking it due to it being against their beliefs.

Muslims enforcing Sharia law in Britain

The desciption of that video has this to say:

Police in the UK have arrested two men who are said to be part of a vigliante group calling themselves the 'Muslim Patrol'. - www.youtube.com... The footage is likely to have come from East London, where 'Shariah zones' were set up last year. The new tactic of intimidation is said to appall local residents, who will likely find the 'patrols' disconcerting. In the videos, the 'Muslim Patrol' is heard to say, "Alcohol banned. This is a Muslim area. Muslims patrol the area."

edit on 29-5-2013 by DaRAGE because: (no reason given)

The problem is you are all concerned about the EDL when you should be concerned that there are Mulsims patrolling the streets of England? WTF was that video about. The only person to say anything was a woman aslo, the ball less wonders those 'chaps' were. The people of England need to stand up and wave whatever flag they want, it is their country. Pouring out beer...telling women what to wear...I am speechless that this occurs over there.

reply to post by esdad71


Don't make the mistake of thinking one video represents the UK as a whole. ALL gangs of thuggish louts need to be stood up to, regardless of ethnicity. These twats were arrested, as should they all be.

reply to post by esdad71

The problem is you are all concerned about the EDL when you should be concerned that there are Mulsims patrolling the streets of England? WTF was that video about. The only person to say anything was a woman aslo, the ball less wonders those 'chaps' were. The people of England need to stand up and wave whatever flag they want, it is their country. Pouring out beer...telling women what to wear...I am speechless that this occurs over there.

dude we are looking at two men.....

I see these kind of comments form people quite a lot "why are you worried about the EDL, what about the extremists". I would counter that by saying that in my view they are two sides of the same problem, the EDL calling for the eradication of Islam in the UK is as much a threat to our society as a gang of young Muslims demanding we enforce Sharia law.

The Muslims who do this or who have even more extreme views are the minority of Muslims in the UK, just like the EDL is a very small minority of British people. both however are a problem and both need to be tackled because both seek to destroy what this country should stand for.

Does it make me racist that muslims have bought the local chippy and im already in two minds about using it again? I hope they dont change the type of fat they're cooking in... Im actually quite annoyed they've bought it, if they could deal with alcohol, they'd probably own all the pubs as well as the takeaways. And taxies.

Anyhow, the EDL have been hijacked by idiot skinheads who are making as much noise as possible and then being unable to intellectually state why they're in uproar - Making the general white British population look like idiots. Its not on.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


May I ask how you know they are Muslims? Have you asked them?

reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin


I'm of the perspective that one ought to watch out for the small faction that is not only loud, but takes action with the will to accomplish their goals. I've mentioned it before on another thread a few weeks ago, but I had a conversation with an incredibly old German businessman about 10 years ago, I would say mid 90s in age at the time. Basically his story of Nazi Germany went something like this:

He was the owner of a small manufacturing company that he and his friend set up in the late 20s that did sub contracting work for AEG Electrolux, and a few others. They were young engineers that basically figured out that some parts were over-engineered or the methods of production were inefficient, set up their own manufacturing company and sold equivalent parts to the big guys for less than it cost the big guys to make in house. Throughout the late 20s and early 30s, everyone considered the Nazis in a similar way to how Americans view the Tea Party now. A minor party with little influence, but loud and always trying to get noticed. No-one, in general, really took them seriously. He told me that within a year, 1932-1933 the party that no one took seriously erupted in popularity. He said it was like an avalanche, starting small, then growing very very quickly, almost inexplicably. He said even with the popularity of the party, most people didn't outright believe Nazi ideology, but rather wanted a change from the stagnant Wiemar policies, and so voted Nazi. All of a sudden, he was getting mandates by local and other government entities to start producing parts for other things.

Basically he was warning about how fast a party that "only represents a small fraction of the population" can usurp and take over merely because they can dupe the people into popularity and they have the will and action to do it. The silent majority tends to never fully share the views of their new leaders, and may even completely regret their apathy, or even support, but by then its too late to do anything about it.

Never underestimate the little guy with an agenda. Basically evil people prevail when good people are willfully ignorant, apathetic, or both.

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

May I ask how you know they are Muslims? Have you asked them?

Ive heard that the owner sold the place to Pakistanis, which are likely to be muslims. My dad used to work for the owner who recently sold the place. I know you're going to call me bad for making assumptions but come on, how many people of asian decent have you met who arent muslim?

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc

Originally posted by waynos
reply to post by SearchLightsInc

 

May I ask how you know they are Muslims? Have you asked them?

Ive heard that the owner sold the place to Pakistanis, which are likely to be muslims. My dad used to work for the owner who recently sold the place. I know you're going to call me bad for making assumptions but come on, how many people of Asian decent have you met who arent muslim?

Its funny because where I live, the US, (I have dual UK US citizenship), those who are commonly referred to as "Asian" are of east Asian appearance, so China, Korea, Japan, Vietnam, etc. etc. Middleastern is the moniker to refer to anyone who is from north Africa, to turkey, to Pakistan. Funny enough, Indians seem to be referred to as Indians and are colloquially considered different and separate from Middleeasterners, perhaps because they are predominantly Hindu.

Surprise surprise, someone has started a thread about EDL.

Just posted my dismay that the main thread relating to the murder of Lee Rigby had somehow become a discussion, or demonisation, of EDL and it's supporters.
www.abovetopsecret.com...

It comes as no great shoock to find the usual condemnation of EDL here in this thread, much of it based on the videoed interview of one of it's supporters.

It's quite ironic, and incredibly hypocritical, that we are then told, or it is implied, that this person is representative of ALL supporters of EDL whilst at the same time we are repeatedly brow beaten with the apparent fact that extremist Muslim terrorists and murderer's are NOT representative of all Muslims.
Why the double standards?

Don't you think that the video has been presented in such a way as to condition people's responses?
I could honestly video numerous people who support EDL, or at least many of it's opinions, who could express themselves in an incredibly articulate and reasoned manner, but MSM and other outlet's refuse to broadcast such video's.

When it comes to EDL reporting is extremely biased and one-sided.

I guess it doesn't help that Stephen Lennon / Tommy Robinson is a complete and utter tit.

Originally posted by Galvatron
I personally really dislike the EDL. Their overall ethos, whether they like it or not and whether it's deserved or not, is one of ignorance, violence, and extremism. It's a shame really, because their desires are legitimate ones that reflect, in a focused and more importantly active way, the overall concern of the majority of the indigenous British population.

If only an EDL-like organization existed that was full of intellectuals and the upper-middle class with a different "face" that they projected with rationality, desire, and more importantly, will.

Isn't that UKIP .....well maybe not the intellectual bit.

reply to post by SearchLightsInc


Not too many, but some. I was more intrigued as to why you said Muslims had taken over the chippy, rather than Pakistanis. For example, I might say I'd encountered an Irishman, but I wouldn't say I'd met a catholic unless that had been a specific point of conversation between us.

Not going to condemn you at all, I just found it interesting.

Originally posted by Mads1987
There was recently a thread about a women in the UK, who had been removed from a shopping area after waving a EDL flag around (English Defence Leauge), and spewing racist remarks.

You can check it our here:
Woman allegedly arrested for carrying a Union Jack Flag (In Oldham England)

Do you have any evidence to prove she was being racist?
you havent have you or you would have presented in the thread above
I dont know who is worse, those that claim all muslims are terrorists, or those who make wild statements that all EDL members are racists
an old poster from when the EDL was about a year old