"Unknown" Nuclear Subs Destroy America - What Would Happen (Economic Implications etc)?

EDIT: Sorry Mods, can you close this thread please. Wrong and misguided context and didn't quite convey what I was trying to ask. My proper thread is in "Social Issues and Civil Unrest".



This is highly speculative and highly unrealistic and highly unlikely. However, I make this thread to simply consider the economic implications arising from the "disappearance" of the United States.

So, let's say that a dozen nuclear subs simply appeared out off nowhere off the East Coast of the United States in international waters and abruptly without warning fired off a barrage of high-yield nukes that completely devastated the East and West Coasts (including DC) and some sections of the South with some of the North left unhit (though nuclear winter etc) - what exactly would be the economic implications of this?

Would the rest of the world quickly descend into chaos? Israel would have just lost it's biggest ally? China would have free reign? Would the economies of the world suddenly collapse shortly after?

Remember, I'm asking in terms of economic implications - in other words, what if the US was suddenly devastated by some unknown cataclysm - what effects would this have on the countries and peoples on the rest of the planet? Would we be able to survive without the world's largest (if, the only one, atm) superpower?

I.e. Would the world fall if America fell/ceased to exist? Would the rest of our countries/governments collapse if the US collapsed? Would it be akin to the fall of Rome?

Your right, its not possible.

There is absolutely no way a dozen subs could get close enough to America to fire without our knowing about it. Our sub nets are pretty much impenetrable.

Secondly, if they fire from outside our monitoring range than they would just fire from land, you wouldn't need subs in the first place.

Thirdly, I don't believe that even Russia has 12 fully armed nuclear subs in operation.

reply to post by Hopechest


I simply wanted to consider the economic implications. In other words, if the US collapsed tomorrow somehow, would the rest of the world collapse. The "nuke sub" business was just a context - I might have to ask the direct question in an appropriate forum, as I don't think I came across clearly. Cheers anyway.

Mods - can you close this thread please. Wrong forum and wrong context.

reply to post by Hopechest


It could be very possible if they strike with advanced weaponry by surprise.

Over estimating America is like a disease.

Well the fact of the matter is that nobody except for a select few know what Americas nuclear plan is.

Even presidents don't know the details.

The SIOP or Single Integrated Operational Plan, which controls our forces in the event of a nuclear attack, is really only known by the war planners who created it. We know it hasn't changed much since the Cold War was inititated in the late 40's and 50's so trying to gauge what Americas response would be is purely hypothetical.

Economically it would be devastating. Since the onset of globalization the world is basically attached at the hip. What happens in one nation will ripple throughout the worlds economies so taking America out of the picture would probably usher in another Great Depression among the industrialized nations.

Countries that are poor, such as many African countries, would see a lesser effect but countries in Europe would be devastated, China would take a huge hit....Russia would fair better however considering that it would probably be them who attacked us, and given the fact that currently we have about 2600 nuclear warheads trained on them, I don't think they would be around very long.

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens


For one, chances are they won’t be nuclear subs, but rather container ships.

Two, it would mean the economic collapse of the world. Western society would have a hard time of it. But countries with strong arm leaders/dictators would be able to continue to function, until they themselves were bombed.

It would be a new world. And if you think that this one isn’t fair. Just wait till you see that one.

Somebody will always try to fill a power vacuum. That alone will cause chaos and untold deaths. Imagine, no medical care, internet, cell phones, electrical power.

Economics will be the last of your worries. In the beginning anyways.

Well, realistically? I would say that the US has spent 50+ years through State, Commerce and things like the IMF, insuring it is 100% indispensable to the World Economy as a whole. Nothing arrogant to state that when it's simply been a factual outcome of a policy meant to achieve it.

So...I'd say nations from small to large would have varying levels of total chaos. First from the most obvious things people would think of. The world wide gold storage for national treasuries that..rumor has it...is somewhere in New York. Other rumors say Ft Knox...but who knows except to say that gold..which national economies are built on...won't have "safe keeping" anymore.

Little nations like Bangladesh base over 70% of their entirely national export structure on textiles, and the vast majority of them are to Western/US markets. No markets? No work...in a place where unemployment is common and poverty comes in the 4th world grinding variety for many.

We won't even get into how little nations like Taiwan, South Korea and Israel might or might not have the time to even realize what has happened before being declared the property of someone else's Government with troops to immediately follow for effect.

All in all? I think if the US were strategically removed from the world stage in a way that could be seen as really lasting without warning? The world would have a real bad day. Many of them...for a long time to come. Just my thoughts.

Why nukes..?

Couple of big “unmonitored” rocks form the space will do the (finishing job) rather swiftly and permanently.

Of course the world economic going to suffer badly, but then again it will be rebuilt rather in better basis and solid foundations due to lack of the planet (big bully).

And as TDAWGREX pointed out, the power vacuum that was left would usher in a new era of war and global violence.

Like it or not, the US is a stabilizing force in the world with our military reach. Take that away and your going to see wars flaring up all over the world for this reason or that, the UN would collapse and each country would be on their own.

Western European countries would probably unite for protection but China would have free reign in Asia and Russia would probably take all their satellite countries in the Balkans back.

Genocide, famine,......all these horrible things would run rampant.

reply to post by Hopechest



Typical American S.S.

“Without US , the world goes NUTS” kind of mentality! You should stop thinking and “imagine things” like that. U.S is just around for a lousy 500 years and in international arena for the past 200 years, do you think that the world did not exist 500 years ago..?

reply to post by amkia


It's anything but imaginings when it's been open and publicly pursued policy to make sure the major Western structure was built with that as a core reality. Who formed the entire literal world in "The West" after World War II? America, Britain, France and a few others. The institutions that ran it then, still run it today. The power structures built then, stand today. Very little in hard reality for how the world really functions has changed in fundamental ways since the late 40's and early 50's.

So, indeed, if America fell with no warning to other nations to prepare with some advance time? The world would suffer at least a short term collapse in economics and overall stability. Not because it makes any American feel special to say it. It's because the system was designed for that outcome as the ultimate self insurance of success, from the ground up.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000



I don’t know..

There are several types of (the west)… en.wikipedia.org... which one are we talking about..?

There are 104 Nuclear Reactors in the USA. Source & widget

If it was a massive nuclear attack, none of those plants would have power for cooling.
So it would be that, plus 100 Tschernobyls / Fukushimas. (104 - [1 Tschernobyl Reactor + 3 Fukushima Reactors])

I think that would be enough to blanket the Northern Hemisphere.... Then over time, given wind and ocean currents, it would like have just as grievous an impact on the Southern Hemisphere. Nuclear winter not withstanding.

World economy? Gone.

M.

Originally posted by amkia
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Typical American S.S.

“Without US , the world goes NUTS” kind of mentality! You should stop thinking and “imagine things” like that. U.S is just around for a lousy 500 years and in international arena for the past 200 years, do you think that the world did not exist 500 years ago..?

edit on 27-5-2013 by amkia because: (no reason given)

I never said that the world goes nuts without the US, I simply said that America has been a relatively stabilizing force in the world and there is nothing really to dispute about that.

The last time any two major powers went to direct war was in WWII and why is that?

Its because of three things, the development of nuclear weapons, America's military dominance in the world, and globalization.

All three of these were brought in with great American influence.

Originally posted by amkia
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

I don’t know..

There are several types of (the west)… en.wikipedia.org... which one are we talking about..?

?? I said, Western World as it's existed and functioned since the 40's and 50's. That's the last historical point where total world organization and institutions were effectively destroyed and needed rebuilt from scratch in some cases, dramatically retooled in others. The U.S. and Britain were core and central to that happening in the West while the Soviet Union handled that end of things for rebuilding what they claimed as satellite properties after the end of the war.

Some names have changed and terminology has certainly adapted over time, but the organizations built back then are what still run the world, overall, today. There is where America is, by letter and realistic definition, core to world economic function and health. The system was designed that way. The League of Nations didn't morph into the United Nations in New York because someone thought it was centrally located or something, as a political example. The Stock Exchange is one of the more visible economic ones.

reply to post by HomoSapiensSapiens

The global economy would become less global. With the former leader of the global economy focused on rebuilding, a huge power vaccuum (and opportunity) would emerge. China could be in a position to try and replace the dollar as the global currency. Once the United States had the basic requirements secured, it would need to begin rebuilding. Depending on the value of the USD, China could use their stash of USD or the Yuan (or both) to fund the rebuilding project, indebting the future of the New America and scoring huge profits.

Russia's best action would then be to secure natural resources (oil) that China would desperately need for their now booming economy. Russia would likely succeed with moderate success, but would become too thin to compete with China millitarily. Eventually a showdown with China and its allies and Russia and its allies would be the last great war for this civilization, probably resulting with the Chinese as the last world power.

European wealth would be hit with the destruction of the United States. The Euro would likely be dropped by many countries after they crash, but would still be used by the more economically stable countries. Some European countries would return to their own curriencies. Europe as a whole will be weaker because of the divide.

The Middle East would be pretty much unchanged, except that Russia would fill the current role the United States has been playing in the ME for the last 20 years.

I have often thought about this, since America's Government is set on a Automatic Protocol of actions by every member of government position. Now, think if a certain someone with a ego issue, get's placed right in a sequenced line to be Emergency Action President then who is to stop them from plotting to create a disaster to usher in such a term. On top of such, economics in a war time such as this, would mean back to basics, and in some cases you could get rich just off the basics.

It would turn average hoarders into tycoons, militia commanders and warlords.

We'd have a much different view of what was normality, since you think ( enter city here ) is bad, you haven't seen humanity without food and toiletries, they will make you crawl back to CNN and FOX for FEMA support.

I honestly do not think it's going to be long before humanity get's it's destructive wish.

USA is not the keeper of this planet. Without USA, this earth will continue spinning and business as usual. Too bad for the Muslim though, USA demise means they have to find a new boogieman. Israel is a goner but that's just about all the implications that might juxtapose from that.

Planet Earth was fine before USA, therefore Planet Earth will be fine without USA. Don't overrate USA.