Two-thirds fear 'clash of civilisations' in wake of Woolwich murder

Originally posted by cody599
FFS

There is no tension

You sure are enthusiastic about repeating yourself that there are no tensions and everything is peachy keen throughout this entire thread. Can't help but wonder if you've got a special agenda.

Whether this is the fault of Islam / Extremists / A lone loonatic / The government / etc is debatable for sure.
But insisting for so long that there is no tension? And basing this on your wife's experience in a school? How unrealistic can people get nowdays?

Waking up this morning and sifting through this thread I realized that whenever anyone brings up an anecdote, statistical evidence, or a well thought out argument as to why Islam is a very destructive force to host societies, it is never countered with conflicting anecdotes, statistics, or well thought out arguments. It is almost always countered with character defamation which is the first sign that the party perpetrating the defamation has no where else to go, argument wise, as there is nothing substantive enough left on their side to argue with.

Do I think Islam should be banned in countries that separate church and state? Absolutely. I explained with no uncertainty why I think it is a direct threat to the national securities of those countries as it is a complete system replacement. It's not like installing a program on your computer and giving it added capability the way immigrating societal systems do for host societal systems. Since Islam is a complete system, religious, legal, cultural, societal, it would be akin to formatting your hard drive of Windows 8, Linux if you're a Finn, Mac OS and installing Windows 3.0 from 1990. But with this Windows 3.0 (Islam) installed, you cannot install any new programs, you cannot update any drivers, and you cannot consider uninstalling and going back to your original operating system because Window 3.0 (Islam) is already a complete system and wont let you upgrade, add capability or change operating systems.

No matter the race or ethnicity, I don't give a rip about that, ban Islam as a fundamental threat to the national security of societies who cherish the separation of church and state. Deport them? Why not? Kind of like the whole financial crisis of 2008. It will hurt upfront to let the banks die, but in the long term it will be much better. The very few countries who did, Iceland comes to mind, are doing quite well now. It's a similar situation. It will be expensive and painful upfront, both in money and other things, but in the long term, successful systems of society that catapulted them to literally be at the front of the world's stage (Many European countries), won't be under threat from Islam. Extreme it may sound, but it is also very true. People here ought to read up on the Yugoslav civil war, and I'm not talking Wikipedia. One of the primary drivers of the breakup of the Balkans was large Muslim populations becoming a major problem for the other Slav societies there. We always read that Bosniaks and Albanians were massacred and ousted from where they lived. It didn't happen for no reason. Things like that very very seldom happen for petty reasons. Compare Croatia, Serbia, Slovenia with Bosnia and Albania from a GDP per capita standpoint. They all went through the civil war. Now look at who's societal system does better for its people I'll give you a hint, It ain't the muslim system.

I'm getting awfully tired of posting on threads where no one converses by replying to rational arguments with counter rational arguments.

Originally posted by Galvatron

You are 100% correct.
Apparently, for people around here it is alot more important to be politically correct than to be correct.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
reply to post by Blister

 

It's funny that you guys can't see that the very actions of "your" ancestors have actually contributed to the great predicaments that now face Europe and Britain. Now if the ancestors of Europe had only remained in their own borders (and by implication remained poor and hungry), you wouldn't have so many problems with "invasions". But no - no, greed took hold and thus the ancestors of Europe had to invade other peoples' lands.

And now - now, the very offspring of those same ancestors now moan and groan and squirm about being invaded themselves! It's nobody's fault that certain offspring of the ancestors of Europe feel "guilty" or feel like they have some sort of "moral obligation"; it's certainly the fault of the ancestors of Europe however who just couldn't stay in, but instead rudely shoved themselves into other peoples' lands and rudely put their feet up and raided the fridge!

I thought people had grown up pre 9/11 but it seems I got that wrong.

I used to be fine living here among different people and i'd hazard a guess to say that i would still be fine today if it weren't for certain Factions of Society trying to turn Britain into some other Country!

I'll make it clear again, shall I??

I don't like Fanaticals from either side but I need to live somewhere and this is my Country. I would rather live somewhere free from Religious Radicals which means I'm all for kicking them out and I dont care if they were born here.... they need to realize that we are a Civilized people living in Britain and if they don't like it or understand it, they need to go.

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens
The fact is, guys, every culture and everyone's ancestors have behaved badly in the past - so let's not get too bogged down on whose ancestors did what and when.

Civilizations rise and fall. All of human advancement and innovation is not due to the White European and all of life's ills is not his fault either.

So stop trying to blame each other and each other's "ancestors" and let's look at the present and see what's going wrong.

Everyone behaved badly in the past - it's now up to us as their offspring and descendants to rectify the situation.

edit on 5/26/2013 by HomoSapiensSapiens because: (no reason given)

First post of yours I actually agree with.

PEOPLE GROWING UP!!

Originally posted by HomoSapiensSapiens



Therefore British people are squashed here, crammed in with half the world joining us - it is a tight fit and claustrophobic.

That is the real problem, the crux of the issue - space and opportunity.

edit on 26-5-2013 by HelenConway because: (no reason given)

Definately agreed and I also mentioned the population problem back on one of my posts earlier.. page 2 or something.

Some people who post here, don't read ALL the posts posted by the OP, so they end up making assumptions of that person which is the case with HOMOSAPIENS.

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Well, crazy schizophrenic wanks excluded. There's always that one wild hare who thinks he hears God, but never knowing Christ they may commit atrocities in the name of a God they never knew to begin with.

Except the major difference is that he's a lone lunatic without the support of his religious organization. Unlike Muslims who have their Imams and Mosques stand behind their vicious actions in the name of Allah.

How many times have I been attacked in Europe for doing absolutely NOTHING by Muslims? Let's count:

1) For simply wearing a backpack with an American flag I was beaten by five Muslim men in Sweden (Stockholm) after going shopping. Two of my ribs were broken as well as my nose. They weren't charged for battery because they disappeared before the police arrived thanks to some bystanders.

2) At a party, a "peaceful Muslim" asks me if I liked "their" gift. Upon asking what gift he meant, he said "9/11".

3) Downtown with two of my friends standing outside a club, six Muslim men attack my friend up, his girlfriend and attack me. Left my friend and his girlfriend in the hospital.

4) Again, downtown shopping in Norway (where most of these things happen except for the first one in Sweden), it was about seven thirty at night. I'm walking to my apartment and two Muslim youths stop me in my track asking if I had any money for them. When I said, "No" they pulled a nice on me. But this time I beat the living crap out of them. It was mentioned in the news, but surprise, their ethnicity was left out. (Something that happens quite often.)

I have more to share, plus been first hand witness to many other attacks in Sweden and Norway. Islam isn't here to integrate with our society. They're not here to start a "new life". They're here to do one thing: Spread Islam until each and everyone of us praises Allah.

"Just because the truth isn't politically correct doesn't change the fact that it's the truth". Something many of you need to realize. Just because "Oh poor Muslims are given a hard time" doesn't change the fact that they're the ones starting it. Even the "moderate" Muslims sit at home nodding their head in agreement when they see terrorists on TV killing in the name of Allah. The only difference is they don't have the guts to do it themselves.

Originally posted by TruthxIsxInxThexMist

Originally posted by Hopechest
I will admit that racial tension is definitely on the rise in Briton but I'm curious what type of clash you think is coming.

Will it be gang fights in the street or will the parliament kick out muslims?

I doubt the latter will happen and the former will not change anything so........

I would hazard a guess and say 'Race Wars' or 'People Against Islam'.

It has been brewing for years and as this Poll suggests, is nearly here..... I think Demo's are being held soon which will escalate into something more

At a time where we should be uniting against the elitist banksters and we are more divided then ever!
Are we so easy to manipulate?
Are we so naïve to the world stage?
IMHO if we allow these people to so easily divide us then we will forever be pawns of the powers that be!

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom
At a time where we should be uniting against the elitist banksters and we are more divided then ever!
Are we so easy to manipulate?
Are we so naïve to the world stage?
IMHO if we allow these people to so easily divide us then we will forever be pawns of the powers that be!

One thing at a time. We've been under the banksters thumbs for 200 odd years, we're only more aware of it today. Societies can at least function as their own societies with the banks involved as much as it irks me to say that. The last decade has revealed Islam as one of the largest and most violent societal threats in the world.

I think from a timeline perspective, the banks are playing a longer game than the muslims.

Besides, who's to say the mass immigration of muslims into successful societies isn't a plan by the banks themselves to undermine those said societies' successful systems in order to put them under further financial servitude? Who would you say controls the politicians more? The banks or the voters? If you answer the banks, then their recent policies of multi-culti and open immigration/amnesty might just very well be a bank plan. If that's the case, then countering, defeating, whatever, as long as this plan is hamstrung and forces to banks to play an even longer game would be worth it.

reply to post by Galvatron


Your rational argument appears to be "chuck all the Muslims out of non Muslim countries".

What sort of rational responses are you expecting to such a hateful idea?

Seems to me you've fallen for all all the anti Islamic propaganda hook, line an sinker.

Originally posted by nosacrificenofreedom
At a time where we should be uniting against the elitist banksters and we are more divided then ever!
Are we so easy to manipulate?
Are we so naïve to the world stage?
IMHO if we allow these people to so easily divide us then we will forever be pawns of the powers that be!

Are you implying that this was orchestrated by the elite banksters or is this just a senseless talk?

Have you got any proof of your accusations? Or do you throw it at us because this event portrayed certain religion of people in a negative light and you won't have that?

reply to post by bates


Explain how it isn't rational with an argument that supports its irrationality. Use history, use statistics, something instead of name calling.

I explained in no uncertain terms how it was rational as it was a direct threat to the cultural, legal, political, financial, economic, and societal systems of the host countries. In effect, a direct threat to national security.

Explain to me how what I said is hateful with an argument that supports its hatefulness. Use history, use statistics, something to support your opinion. If you truly must know, I'm rather dispassionate about the whole thing, but that does not mean I am apathetic.

If you do not, you are exactly the kind of poster I was decrying earlier.


One other thing, did you even read my posts in this thread? I've read the Koran cover to cover, I understand the Hadiths, I understand how it works in that anything that shows contradiction, you are to use the explanation given by Muhammad later in his life. Have you ever read the Koran or even seen one? It's got some beautiful stories, and much like the bible, reads like a piece of fiction. It's got deities and adventure, it's fun, like Homer's Iliad or the Odyssey. but terribly distraughtful to read when you realize that people think this ought to be the way to behave.

reply to post by Galvatron


You want to chuck an entire group of people out of a country because you don't think they're compatible.

How is that not hateful?

Have you ever met a Muslim?

Do you even understand the basics of Islam?

I genuinely don't think you do.

And it's not about being PC, it's about not being a disgusting hate fueled bigot.

If I'm allowed to use history I'll compare you to a Nazi.

Your ideas are fresh from the mind of Adolf Hitler, only you hate Muslims and Islam where he hated the Jews and Judaism.

Originally posted by bates
reply to post by Galvatron

 

You want to chuck an entire group of people out of a country because you don't think they're compatible.

How is that not hateful?

Have you ever met a Muslim?

Do you even understand the basics of Islam?

I genuinely don't think you do.

And it's not about being PC, it's about not being a disgusting hate fueled bigot.

Yep, thought so. Name calling, no support, only reiteration of your opinion.

Please read my posts in this thread. You've made gross and inaccurate assumptions. You don't know me but you call me a bigot. How about this, as I've asked this before and this is merely a different way of asking it, tell me how I don't understand Islam instead of just saying that I don't. Tell me where my notions are false, and we can talk about it in civil, considered, well thought out arguments.

I will reiterate. If you don't, then you are exactly the kind of poster I decried earlier.

It appears you are reaching the limit of your intelligence in this matter. Please quote me where I express hatred. Please quote me where I have done anything except explain in a dispassionate tone that Islam, as a system, is a complete system that has no regard for any host system it occupies and almost always eventually replaces it. I have explained how Islam, as a cultural and societal system overall (which it is a complete one, remember) is less competitive and providing for its people than the ones it is trying to replace in places such as France, Sweden, UK, etc.

Originally posted by InstantRemedy

Originally posted by cody599
FFS

There is no tension

You sure are enthusiastic about repeating yourself that there are no tensions and everything is peachy keen throughout this entire thread. Can't help but wonder if you've got a special agenda.

Whether this is the fault of Islam / Extremists / A lone loonatic / The government / etc is debatable for sure.
But insisting for so long that there is no tension? And basing this on your wife's experience in a school? How unrealistic can people get nowdays?

Yeah I am

The reason ....................... oh bugger me it 's the truth

prove me wrong

reply to post by Galvatron


You're advocating the removal of an entire group of people from countries of their birth based on their religion.

Could you please tell me how that isn't bigoted?

If you can't see the obvious parallels this has to one of the most disgusting chapters of human history I fear that we've gone no where as a species and probably never will.

Were the Nazis okay to remove the Jews from their lands because Judaism wasn't compatible with The German society and culture they wanted to create?

reply to post by cody599


I don't know if they constitutes proof in your eyes, but in my eyes the following examples do.

The mere existence of the EDL, officially formed in 2009, is proof of tension. Forget who associates with the EDL, forget about their aspects. I find the EDL disgusting, personally. Bet lets look at the reasons for their existence and the fact that they have a major presence in every major city in the UK. They didn't form for no reason. Their mere existence means there is tension, regardless of how damaging they are to the perception of the British.

It's kind of like government in the UK right now. Saying there is no tension is akin to saying that people aren't fed up with the old guard parties. There's a reason why UKIP has surged in popularity to be slightly ahead of Labor in terms of popularity,and it ain't because people are happy with the old parties.

Originally posted by cody599
Yeah I am

The reason ....................... oh bugger me it 's the truth

prove me wrong

I sure will.
There's this classic
This one generally describe the situation

In the East End of London, there is a lot of tension in the area around East Ham, Barking and Dagenham between Muslims and non-Muslims. The British National Party gained their highest vote by proportion, 16.9%, in the 2005 General Election in Barking[2] and has 12 councillors on Barking & Dagenham Borough Council.[3] West London has also seen some conflict between Muslims and Sikhs at sixth-form colleges.

EDL members clash with police, two mosques attacked, fear of anti-muslim backlash
That was less than one minute worth of snooping around.
Add that to the fact you said there are armed patrols in the streets.

These tensions aren't new and they are there for some time. Only to boil and boil until reaching over the top.
Like the poster above stated - there's a reason why parties like UKIP are forming, along with organizations like the EDL.
Let me guess what your response is going to be: this is all lies and sensationalism by just about everyone. Everybody is wrong, you are right, and why might I ask? Because your wife, according to you, sees no tensions in her school with 75% kids being Muslim.

Yeah. Excuse me for not buying that for even a second and assuming you are obviously having an agenda when you insist everything is perfectly fine and cannot possibly get any better.

I'll tell you all what

Show me 66% of Britain rising against a Muslim threat that isn't there and I will doff my cap to you all.

If you can't

get ready to eat humble pie

You have one year to prove me wrong

Otherwise stop boring me with alarmist crap

Cody