The Truth Comes Out: Former IRS Director Admits Taxes Are Voluntary

reply to post by inverslyproportional


I get it, I get it. Just tell me how I can get away with not paying taxes? Do you pay them?

Voluntary my foot. Nobody PAYS taxes, they TAKE taxes; out of every single bit of money you get. And how on EARTH does one voluntarily go to federal prison? LMAO. S&F. Awesome topic OP.

reply to post by inverslyproportional

I am saying we all agree at the start of employment to allow it, it is voluntary, we sign the contract agreeing to it, we thus owe the debt we agree to. As well as the penalties associated with that debt, we willfully agree to accept.

And people who work for cash agree to it by signing what?

reply to post by jjsr420

And how on EARTH does one voluntarily go to federal prison?

Couldn't find a video clip

reply to post by ThreeNF


Do you work for a company? Then no, sadly, you can't avoid it. As they have "forced" you to sign a legally binding contract before your employment, that makes you agree to pay these taxes instead of the business that will owe them if you don't sign the forms.

Get a job, never turn in a W2, or W4 or any tax forms, these taxes will be payed, and are owed, but not by you, the business will owe them, as the government is allowed to tax business.

The business simply "forces" you to agree to liablity for these taxes pre employment, so your on the hook not them.

It is the best way to tax the people without violating the law.

Your not taxing the people, your taxing the business, that is forcing the people to accept the burden as a liability for employment.

In law, and tax code there is a significant difference.

I am suprised you don't see it.

The business is bound by law to pay X for wages, they just make the employee pay this as a part of the agreement of employment.

After all, in your employment contract it is an "at will relationship" as clearly stated in the employment contract you willingly sign.

Which means you are willingly agreeing to the terms, one of which is paying "your" own income taxes, instead of the business doing so.

Am I the only person here that understands legal speak or what?

reply to post by inverslyproportional


I get it. So far so good with me being a part of the underground economy. The last I heard it is the underground economy that is keeping the "economy" from taking that dreaded nose dive. We have more money to spend.

reply to post by Witness2008


Well, yes....and sadly no also, it is a clearly defined wall actually.

If your primary income is, or you are making more than X, than under certain criteria your considered a "business" and subject to certain criteria, one being that your entity known as "your business" is subject to and under the authority of the IRS to recover certain monetary or financial liabilities in conjuction with the laws pertaining to commerce, interstate transport, and all taxes fees and permits associated with them.

They have vreated a catch 22, which is supposed to be a legal paradox, which isn't supposed to exist.

To clarify this, they have created a system where by all must "agree" to afore mentioned taxation, or be noncompliant, with the tax laws.

Seeing how all political parties have weilded the IRS like a bastard sword over the years, and thus set multiple extreme precidents, it is inconceivable that one might challenge this in court and win anything but fines, penalties, and judgements against them.

Thus making the illegal now legal, and without recourse of redress, so in, they are now allowd to apply the law as "wanted" at "will" and without recourse.

So in lies the fatal flaw with any and all tax codes, mzking them both viable ( real and binding) and contrandictory thus invalid at the same time.

Which way will the "supremes" go?

Well guys your guess is as good as any others, even scholars in the field can't decide, and neither can any other.

At best, we pay illegal income taxes, though admittedly need for infrastructure etc..., and illegalsiezures of property and income that at the same time seems at face value, to comply with an illegal law.

In truth, if, and as evidenced, the government can and does print as much as needed, at the want, print as much money as it deems necessary, wgy should or would they have a need to tax the people at all.

It boggles the mind.

They already print more than they tax every year, so why tax atall?

It seems the only reason for it all is to impose financial hardship on the people as a whole, in order to subjigate, or rather further serve to impune the peoples ability to vote via monetary consent, on certain lawful/unlawful activities.

In the end, we are all just slaves, and that is how they both envisioned and intend it to be.

One phrase comes to mind, and one only.

" the strong did what they could, the weak suffered what they must."

reply to post by inverslyproportional

So, who's the loser in this scheme? The Internal Revenue Service, according to Feige and Cebula's study. As much as $500 billion in taxes aren't being paid on the $2 trillion in underground earnings, his study says. And the shadow economy may be poised to get even bigger.

money.msn.com...

I suspect that most folks that decide to do business in the shadows, or simply supplement their recorded income understand the ramifications of doing so, and hopefully protect themselves to some extent. A growing underground economy could be the monster that finally changes the tax code and makes it a bit more user friendly. I don't think any of us should be paying the feds any money at all. I support my local community, and decline to support the military complex.

Congress wants to repatriate business holdings now off shore, perhaps they can come up with an idea for us lowly slave class.

Originally posted by ThreeNF
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Of course, if we could all get away with not paying taxes, none of us would pay for it. I'm very interested in knowing how to not pay them. Unfortunately, I don't know that answer to that.

If someone can tell me how I can get away with not paying taxes and not go to jail, please let me know.

Simple don't have any income and you won't pay taxes. Only one other alternative leave the United States and denounce the citizenship move to UAE or Qatar.Oman,Kuwait possibly the cayman islands or My favorite Bahamas though the do have a program similar to social security that is mandatory.

It seems the only reason for it all is to impose financial hardship on the people as a whole, in order to subjigate, or rather further serve to impune the peoples ability to vote via monetary consent, on certain lawful/unlawful activities.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


I meant to respond to this.

There is a certain sinister genius in having your slaves pay for their own slavery, and most folks just don't see their own slave status yet, but from what I gather while lurking around in the shadows, the world slave population is waking up and spreading the word.

I know folks that have simply decided not to cooperate because they could no longer stand the stress. And who isn't stressed by that pack of pit bulls AKA the IRS?

reply to post by dragonridr


Well I do have income, and I don't plan on moving. So, I will pay taxes because I really rather not go to jail and something tells me it isn't really easy to get away with not paying them.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


Great, so what do you propose we actually DO about it? I'm following what you are saying, but something tells me that you, nor me, or anybody else has any power to change anything. Then again, maybe you aren't paying taxes - great for you.

Originally posted by jrod
Voluntary they say. Tell that to those serving prison for not paying their share of that voluntary tax.

Well if you're a citizen then you abide by the laws of government. If you KNOW WHO YOU ARE then you don't pay taxes.

The tax is voluntary, if this statement was untrue do you think everyone in positions of power and retired from such could make it?

It is voluntary the idea is was grandpa really a moron?

reply to post by Huggiesunrise

The tax is voluntary, if this statement was untrue do you think everyone in positions of power and retired from such could make it?

Everyone? Really? Who are these "everyones" in position of power (and retired) have said that the income tax is voluntary? Can you provide a source? The payment system, the system of reporting and paying is "voluntary", just as the compliance with any other law is "voluntary". You can steal a car if you want. You'll only run into problems if you get caught. Don't pay income tax if you don't want to. No problem unless you get caught.

It's up to you if you want to violate the law or not, do so at your own risk. It's been through the courts. You can "volunteer" yourself if you like but I wouldn't count on favorable results. The law is not on your side.

If the income tax system were not "voluntary" it would mean that each year the government would tell you "you owe us $15,000." Remember the sheriff of Nottingham? That was involuntary taxation. See, we tell the government, "I had this much income, so I owe you $5,000". That is voluntary. Of course, you can lie about it if you want. People try (and do) all the time. When they get caught it's usually not very pretty.

Paying income tax is not voluntary. Reporting of taxable income is.
Not paying income tax is illegal, as is lying about taxable income.

Originally posted by ThreeNF
reply to post by inverslyproportional

 

Great, so what do you propose we actually DO about it? I'm following what you are saying, but something tells me that you, nor me, or anybody else has any power to change anything. Then again, maybe you aren't paying taxes - great for you.

Sadly, I have an employer, who "forced" me to sign tax forms before my employment, so I do pay taxes.

I am not trying to say that we shouldnt pay taxes, I believe they are necessary, as I like roads, and fire departments, and schools for my kids etc....

Taxes are the only way to fund these enterprises, unless we could somehow get everyone to pay an appropriate amount of their income to cover the costs of these services.

That seems more like tithes in church to me though, and would not always amount to the required funding, as somtimes we would all just say " I cant afford it this week, or this month, because I am saving for my new house, or car" and we would not have funding for these things, at regular intervals.

Not of course to mention, some would never pay voluntarily, because they are asshat selfish types, that only care about themselves.

So I would say, mandatory taxation is needed.

reply to post by Phage

The law is not on your side.

No, the law is the law. Thousands of pages of jibberish which often contradict the other thousands of pages of jibberish that NO one understands, including the judges and lawyers. It is the COURT system that is not on a defendant's side. After all, who would pay the salaries of the lawyers and judges if not for taxpayers?

reply to post by inverslyproportional

I am not trying to say that we shouldnt pay taxes, I believe they are necessary, as I like roads, and fire departments, and schools for my kids etc....

Taxes are the only way to fund these enterprises, unless we could somehow get everyone to pay an appropriate amount of their income to cover the costs of these services.

All of these things could be better funded if all taxes were paid to the state governments and then disbursed to the federal government to cover the costs. Just think, no more unfunded mandates loaded onto the backs of the states by the feds. No more funding for federal departments and agencies that don't work to the advantage of the people of the states.

Nah, too easy. Too logical. Too fair.

reply to post by inverslyproportional


Yes, certain services do need to be funded by our taxes. However, the fact that my tax money pays for someone to be a judge that has power to pass judgement on me makes is not right. I didn't vote for that person, so I shouldn't have to listen them.

But really, I say a Resource Based Economy is needed. I don't say that because I'm poor, but from a mathematical perspective, our current economy is not sustainable. It will fail. When that time comes, I may just have to pack heat, and mow down anything that stands in the way of my survival.