UK Withdrawal From The EU Bill Making It's Way Through The Houses

Whereas the existence of this proposal may not exactly be "breaking news" I still feel as though it is worthy of wider discussion. Have searched the archives best I could and do not see references to it there so here goes:

www.publications.parliament.uk...

The proposal started in the House of Lords, and was last updated as a result of its first hearing on 15th May 2013. It awaits its next hearing which will include by definition from the Parliament website a debate on the principles of the Bill. So it is in its very early embryonic stages in terms of actually being voted on and passed into being. I understand that items are proposed for hearing in either House, and are "thrown out" at early stages.
The Proposer of the Bill is one Lord Pearson of Rannoch, former Leader of UKIP, so no surprises there.
A recent article in The Guardian, by John Harris profiles UKIP:

www.guardian.co.uk...

I suppose the reason I am mentioning this at all is because alongside the recent uplift in the popularity of UKIP, could this be a genuine possibility? The European subject has always been a hotly debated one, and my personal views on it are not important, I am more interested in the further reaching implications of this potentially coming to fruition.

EUROPEAN UNION (WITHDRAWAL) [HL] (L) Lord Pearson of Rannoch
Lords: (25) 1R: 15.5.2013

I am not trying to fit this into any wider jigsaw puzzle of conspiracy or anything, moreso interested in the views of other members. All I will say rather loosely though, is that given the recent events in Woolwich, tied in with UKIP's views on immigration, could it potentially attract more support?
Thank you for reading, look forward to your comments.

reply to post by Mufcutcakeyumyum


T'would be interesting indeed to see what would happen if they did pull out. Would Ireland follow? Despite our former differences there are massive deep rooted links between Ireland and England, not on a political level but on a population level.

I like most people in the UK, you included i would imagine, have never had a say in Europe and how we, as a country are part of it. It has expanded way beyond what our parents and grandparents were told it was going to be when they were given the option of a vote back in the 70's. the common market has been replaced with a federal superstate that seeks to control everything, it is no longer just about commerce, which the original vote was for.

Europe isn't going to want to give up any powers it has so far secured, so we have to have a credible weapon in our arsenal and that includes pulling out of it. The letter signed by business leaders saying we would be anywhere from 31 billion to 92 billion pounds worse of is utter bull manure. A figure plucked out of the air, you try and pull figures that have a difference of a 3 to 1 ratio in a budget meeting and see what happens, you'll get laughed at.

Personally, as far as i'm concerned Europe has got far too big for it's own boots, it hasn't had it's accounts signed off in over 16 years, again try that in business and you'll be kicked out / banged up in no time at all, and yet some of these 'business leaders' think that Europe is the best thing since sliced bread, vested interest anyone ?

You are writing this like a true politician.

All I have to say to the UKs "No" to the EU is: go and take your monstrous regiment of banksters and your lobbyisted laws and directions to provide for more money for your banksters - leave the EU and see how you will be treated "equal under equals" in the world.. Say hello to being a second-world-country. With the obvious exception of the City of London as it seems to be the only place left to be rich.

reply to post by FFS4000

It has expanded way beyond what our parents and grandparents were told it was going to be when they were given the option of a vote back in the 70's.

I don't remember being given the option. We joined the European Economic Community. That is how it should have remained - and economic Union.

There was never a need for political union, and still is no need for such even now. We should be happy with the diversity of Europe and NOT try to make it an homogeneous single state. It can never be that.

reply to post by PuterMan


Hi Puterman, the sun has just come out in the sunny south east!
I have lived in Ireland for four years now and although not a big follower of politics per say, I am always interested to hear what certain, mainly independant TD's have to say. At the moment I am a bit of a fan of Richard Boyd Barrett, not that that is really relevant.
If the Uk were to jump the good ship Europe, then I imagine it would by definition distance itself or be distanced from some European nations, so improved trade links with old friends such as Ireland would be keenly sought after. As far as Ireland itself is concerned, I just feel it is far too far in the you know what to make any realistic bid for freedom as it were. Besides that, Enda has far too many puppet strings to cut himself free of any time soon.

reply to post by ManFromEurope

All I have to say to the UKs "No" to the EU is: go and take your monstrous regiment of banksters and your lobbyisted laws and directions to provide for more money for your banksters - leave the EU and see how you will be treated "equal under equals" in the world.. Say hello to being a second-world-country. With the obvious exception of the City of London as it seems to be the only place left to be rich.

Seems perhaps you are unable to look at the German banks then? The City is NOT the only place with a monstrous regiment of banksters, and Germany is FIRST in ensuring more money for the banks. That is what the whole mechanism is about. Ireland got dragged down by German insistence, backed by the Fed, that the banks should be bailed and not allowed to collapse. Had they collapsed Germany would have been a major looser.

Should the UK leave the EU it would actually fair much better, as would Ireland, and in no way what so ever would it be a second world country in the European area. You obviously have little understanding of finance and the machinations of the games these people are playing with our lives.

Germany NEEDS the EU to be able to export. The only looser in the break up of the EU would actually be Germany, yet even now it might be Germany that leaves the Euro first.

Originally posted by ManFromEurope
You are writing this like a true politician.

All I have to say to the UKs "No" to the EU is: go and take your monstrous regiment of banksters and your lobbyisted laws and directions to provide for more money for your banksters - leave the EU and see how you will be treated "equal under equals" in the world.. Say hello to being a second-world-country. With the obvious exception of the City of London as it seems to be the only place left to be rich.

Or we could stay in it and end up
Like Greece
Like Italy
Like Spain.

Yeah, when we are in half the mess the above are in then i will concede we are a "second world" country. Until then, nah. Sorry. And your post smacked a little bit of UK envy. Its ok, that part i DO understand

reply to post by expatwhite

Or we could stay in it and end up Like Greece Like Italy Like Spain.

But without the warm weather and attractive women.

reply to post by Mufcutcakeyumyum

As far as Ireland itself is concerned, I just feel it is far too far in the you know what to make any realistic bid for freedom as it were. Besides that, Enda has far too many puppet strings to cut himself free of any time soon.

Enda should be cut loose! He may be a Mayo man, but Mayo's history is republican. Indeed I believe that for about 7 months in the distant past Mayo declared itself a Republic and tried to secede from England.

The general unrest in Ireland was felt just as keenly across Mayo and as the 18th century approached and news reached Ireland about the American War of Independence and the French Revolution, the downtrodden Irish, constantly suppressed by Government policies and decisions from Dublin and London, began to rally themselves for their own stand against English rule in their country. By 1798 the Irish were ready for rebellion. The French came to help the Irish cause. General Humbert, from France landed in Killala with over 1,000 officers where they started to march across the county towards Castlebar where there was an English garrison. Taking them by surprise Humbert's army was victorious. He established a 'Republic of Connacht' with one of the Moore family from Moore Hall near Partry. Humbert's army marched on towards Sligo, Leitrim and Longford where they were suddenly faced with a massive English army and were forced to surrender in less than half an hour. The French soldiers were treated honourably, but for the Irish the surrender meant slaughter. Many died on the scaffold in towns like Castlebar and Claremorris, where the high sheriff for County Mayo, the Honourable Denis Browne, M.P., brother of Lord Altamont, wreaked a terrible vengeance - thus earning for himself the nickname which has survived in folk-memory to the present day, 'Donnchadh an Rópa' (Denis of the Rope).

County of Mayo

Despite all that the PEOPLE of the UK and Ireland are all Celts and I think there is enough feeling brewing that if the UK left Ireland would eventually follow.

The West has a rebellious history, not like the good Normans of the South East

My better half is a descendent of Granuaile.

I know it is very topline, and not really anything we don't already know, but the BBC published this article recently in light of Mr Cameron's promise of a referendum in 2017 IF (need to make that if a bit bigger) they win the next election:

www.bbc.co.uk...

It mentions the fear of the UK becoming a "maverick state" if it left the EU, and does so as a reason to maintain the status quo. I think I quite like the idea of a maverick state, much better than a lethargic and predictable state.
In my opinion, decisions made by "mavericks" are usually the ones we remember, not always for the right results, but for the gumption to stick your neck out and make an original decision.

reply to post by woodwardjnr

But without the warm weather and attractive women.

I have to agree on the point of the weather but completely and utterly disagree on the point of attractive women. There is nowt like a fine English Rose other than a feisty Irish colleen.

reply to post by expatwhite


All Greece, Italy and Spain crashed because of mishandling their money, not because EU.

1) Greece paid too much to its public sector and the pensions.
2) Italy is not growing enough
3) Spain´s house bubble crashed and they did not have money to bailout the bankers.

All these were problems before, but the US crash in 2008, was the trigger there too. Whether we want it or not, Europe and US are too connected and affect each other a lot. The recession was everywhere across Europe because of the banking crisis in 2008.

I am living in a small country in North-East, government with nearly non-existent debt. After 2008, the housing market nearly crashed. Too many people, especially blue-collar, lost their jobs, because :

1) Investors were afraid to invest here because of fear of future.
2) People were afraid to buy things (like houses, renovation etc) because of fear for future.
3) Banks made it harder for everybody to get loans, even when needed.

For Spain, Italy and Greece it was all about mishandling their money well. When the recession began, they could not afford paying back the loans, which triggered the crash. Greece mishandled/wasted their money, Spanish banks gave out loans too easily and Italy is not growing enough to pay back the loans. All this triggered the three points I mentioned. Fear and already existing problems because of decisions by government created the crisis there.

Spain, Italy and Greece are not the only countries in Europe, so basing your assumptions on these countries is very ignorant. Many countries have quite strong economy and are only affected because of some others who mishandled their money, not because of their policies.


In my opinion this would be extremely stupid decision by UK.
1) They will be affected by it badly
2) Other countries in EU will be affected badly.

Nobody wins from it. It would be very stupid decision.

reply to post by Mufcutcakeyumyum


Interesting that article.

Britain would find itself increasingly ignored by Washington

Sounds like the best reason yet for getting out!!

reply to post by ManFromEurope


Thank you for your reply, I agree with your point on the City of London on the whole, but even most compulsive addictive gambIers eventually run out of money once they have pawned everything. I have amongst others a certain individual by the name of Max Keiser to thank for that, love him or loathe him.

reply to post by Cabin


That would be Finland then, and a holder of a good proportion of the purse strings.

Yup, I can understand why you are so in favour of the EU.

The problem was indeed with the Greek Government BUT misrepresentation by American banks allowed Greece to come in to the Euro and that should never have happened.

Had they not come into the Euro they would have resolved their own problems eventually, and would not have been persuaded to take these ridiculous loans in the first place.

The sooner counties are not beholden to the whims of 'investors' the better since investors care nothing about people, only about money. Trash the whole lot of them.

reply to post by Cabin


Starred you for a well thought out and intelligent response, even if i didn't agree with all of it.

This is a huge piece of information to trawl through at 20 pages, submitted by The Express in January 2011, in a campaign to "Get Britain Out Of The EU" so it is VERY biased, no make that UNBELIEVABLY biased!

Some good titbits of information in there though, page 10 for example.

images.dailyexpress.co.uk...

Here is a much more condensed version, again by The Express on 25th January 2013, what is it about January and staunch anti EU entities?

www.express.co.uk...

Enjoy

reply to post by Cabin


Have to disagree with your last statement, we (UK) are technically already in the largest network/ trading partnership of the world, namely the commonwealth, the only thing holding us back from dealing with it anymore is the EU fugging ridiculous trading rules. There is a reason why certain countries want us to stay in Eu and not 'go alone' and start full on trading with them again.

The Eu experiment has / is failing, the only ones that dont seem to see it are those with vested interests with staying in

EU has now become a failing club of members , the Euro being the weak link, the only way Europe Union survives is if the currency is backed by the member populations taxes ie Euro Bonds, that obviously
means no sovereignty for members

As they will be beholden to Europe as a entity in itself ,A Sovereign, if you think the Brits will be part of that no chance and nor will any others with liberty coursing through their veins but small countries who've experienced
economic malady for a variety of reasons may prefer to stay as they benefit economically for the moment and being members have a less incompetent and oppressive govt.

Anyway as Socialism is fatally flawed it's doomed anyway