The Faith of Christ

reply to post by pryed -eyed-one


Well thats one mans definition. Faith by nature is specific to it's owner.

Anyway what you are describing is in fact serenity, and as I said it is part of faith. It is the feeling found when true faith is discovered. That feeling its self is not faith in my opinion, but what arises from true faith.
I don't believe were too far off here from one another.

Originally posted by K9millionaire
reply to post by newnature

 

it is Christ’s faith who has never, nor will ever waver in faith.

I always get a laugh when a Christian declares that Jesus never wavered in his faith with such authority, disregarding his plea from the cross recorded in the gospels. (Father, why have you forsaken me?)
Its a compliment in and of itself to need that type of abuse before questioning God, but he did, and that is very important.

He was confirming once again something (a few things in this case, actually) that was told about Him long before He was crucified. Throughout His ministry, Jesus used various parts of scripture to verify to the people that He was the Messiah. In this particular case, read all of Psalm 22, and you will know what He was conveying.

It doesn't take long to read, but it would be an awful lot for somebody to recite when they have been beaten beyond recognition, weak from loss of blood, then nailed to a cross. Giving the first line was enough to get people to realize what He was conveying.

www.biblegateway.com...

reply to post by Akragon

Everyone knows what is good and what is evil... Its ingrained into our souls... Though not everyone listens to whats within...

I have to respectfully disagree with that notion. Its quite an easy search through history to see that every cultures definitions of what is good and evil have changed over time.

Originally posted by K9millionaire
reply to post by Akragon

 

Everyone knows what is good and what is evil... Its ingrained into our souls... Though not everyone listens to whats within...

I have to respectfully disagree with that notion. Its quite an easy search through history to see that every cultures definitions of what is good and evil have changed over time.

Yup... but that's due to what is taught at an early age... and the experiences said person goes through within his/her lifetime...

The heart of all men/women know's good from evil so to speak... Its knowledge that is within our spirit... Which existed before this incarnation...

There is a learning process... and human history is an example of that process

reply to post by jeramie


Despite that, the Psalm itself conveys doubt. I believe that this doubt shows Jesus's human side and makes him all the more admirable when compared to Jesus as God on earth.

reply to post by K9millionaire


take my word for it me and you my friend, I'm sure our paths are as one, only the road is quite different.

see as a Christian you look outside for answers to life's most important questions when in reality you should seek the answers threw experience.

Treat the bible as any other 2000 year old book. I'm my opinion not only has our understanding of time and space completely changes since then but our place in reality has also changed aswell. We are truely beings of enormous history that would be much better appreciated if looked from a new angle not only from yourself and others of the Christian faith I myself was born into but the rest of the world aswell, nobody at all knows more than anyone else about the truth and to say such is to accept ones believes as fact, and we can all agree that believes aswell as our understandings of them are an ever changing focal point of our excistence & the more we can step back and accept the fact we wake up from day to day without the help of another force, but one force that acts within each one of us in conjunction with the outer force of the entirety of excistence to create our life. An intense experiense it it from day to day compared to emptiness is it not?

reply to post by newnature


It is even better than you may expect. Abraham was asked to sacrifice his Son. He was willing. Abraham is the picture of the Father, giving His Son so mankind could live.

Colossians 1

15 The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16 For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

Before any of us were born into a universe that had not been created, Christ used himself to create all of it in an image of heaven. Our Souls are paired with Christ and Satan (By proximity) at the same time. They are equally bound in us from birth. Between the first two opposites, we make the choice. The key to this is found in this Dead Sea Scroll document found in the first jar discovered.

Document belonging to the Instructor

Here is where it gets interesting (going back to Abraham). God provided a substitute for the Lamb (Son) and provided a scapegoat in the thicket. Which of the two Angels did he provide to take the blade? Here is where it gets even more interesting. Is the risen Christ here today? Yes.

1 Corinthians 10

17 Because there is one loaf, we, who are many, are one body, for we all share the one loaf.

Yes. We, who are many (The Church) are the one loaf (Body of Christ). Christ is the head. Go back up and read Colossians 1. Who is the head? Will the Son be sacrificed? No. The scapegoat is with us today.

Enoch ONE

1 The words of the blessing of Enoch, wherewith he blessed the elect and righteous, who will be
2 living in the day of tribulation, when all the wicked and godless are to be removed. And he took up his
parable and said −Enoch a righteous man, whose eyes were opened by God, saw the vision of the Holy One
in the heavens, which the angels showed me, and from them I heard everything, and from them I understood
as I saw, but not for this generation, but for a remote one which is for to come.
3 Concerning the elect I said, and took up my parable concerning them:
The Holy Great One will come forth from His dwelling,
4 And the eternal God will tread upon the earth, (even) on Mount Sinai,
[And appear from His camp]
And appear in the strength of His might from the heaven of heavens.
5 And all shall be smitten with fear
And the Watchers shall quake,
And great fear and trembling shall seize them unto the ends of the earth.
6 And the high mountains shall be shaken,
And the high hills shall be made low,
And shall melt like wax before the flame
7 And the earth shall be wholly rent in sunder,
And all that is upon the earth shall perish,
And there shall be a judgement upon all (men).

reply to post by EnochWasRight


Yea man just read what you posted and replace the names with literally any other name and you will see how truly rediculous that what you pus so much of your energy into

Originally posted by pryed -eyed-one
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Yea man just read what you posted and replace the names with literally any other name and you will see how truly rediculous that what you pus so much of your energy into

I will need a name as a suggestion. That name will need to be able to draw the future into the past so we can see it coming and happening together. What name can do this other than the one that is evident?

reply to post by newnature

Christ believed that God’s justice has been satisfied where the sins he came to sacrifice himself for are concerned, Christ’s faith was and remains in God, and indeed we can believe God’s justice has been satisfied.

This is all some sort of religion that you just made up.
There is nothing in the Bible that says anything like what you are talking about.

It is Christ’s faith that is freely credited to the account of the one who believes the good news given to the apostle Paul to proclaim to us in this age of grace.

Paul talks about Abraham's compliance with the orders given to him by the Lord, being accounted righteousness, with the point that here is an example of righteousness before there was a Mosaic Law.
What you are talking about is just made up, about someone else's righteousness being "credited" to our "account".
This is all something that you dreamed up as a sort of way to avoid being righteous yourself.

It is Christ’s faith that righteousifies those who take their stand with God when it comes to what God has stated his son accomplished for them.

Here you have to make up a word to fit into this theory that you made up, "righteousifies". Jesus did not "accomplish" things for us, Jesus came to this planet in order to accomplish things for God, so if anyone had an account where they can be credited, it would be God's account, where He should get the credit for sending Jesus to us. Justification, which seems to be included in your made-up word, means to be made right, and that happens through a few steps, which is hearing the word, believing the word, and acting on the word, which includes repenting, being baptized, joining the church, and leading a righteous life according to the promptings of the Holy Spirit.

Rather than taking apart your post sentence by sentence, I would rather, until you actually respond to any posts in the threads that you post, leave it by saying that you are talking gibberish where people who want to read into it some sort of wish fulfilment, they can, but it is a wrong wish, to be absolved of any responsibility in this life.
Jesus did not come to earth to pave a way for laxity in behavior based on there being no need to have our own righteousness.
If you want to support your theory, you could start out by quoting the Bible and explaining how anything in your post relates to it other than single words here and there that can also be found in the Bible.

My favorite thought of what christ did for me is that he hit
himself in the foot with a hammer for my mortgage, to me
that is about equal to the claim that he died for "sins"
forgiving someone for something you have no part in is
completely useless and ignores justice all together.

Originally posted by K9millionaire
reply to post by newnature

 

it is Christ’s faith who has never, nor will ever waver in faith.

I always get a laugh when a Christian declares that Jesus never wavered in his faith with such authority, disregarding his plea from the cross recorded in the gospels. (Father, why have you forsaken me?)
Its a compliment in and of itself to need that type of abuse before questioning God, but he did, and that is very important.

Do you understand the context? Why did he say that? Where is your proof of it if you had one.

Did you ever stop to think that Jesus might have been trying to stay the hand of God from destroying the world at that point. His only begotten son hangs on a tree for a purpose, to save those that wanted it so mankind did not have to perish... to give man a place, a home hereafter... Maybe, just maybe, God was so furious that he was about to destroy the world because of the torture his son was put through and Jesus said that because he knew what God was about to do... and saying those words, perhaps stayed the hand, the anger of God.

I always wondered what those words meant myself but I realised that there was no context to them in the bible. It seemed like it was as you said but then I looked past that and realised, his words were writen but he never said what it was in reference to.

Unfortunatly it leaves people to guess the worst applies, that his faith wavered. I, on the other hand, think that the possibilities go deeper and farther than simply giving in to say that he lost faith in God.

The question is always where to start when this subject comes up.

There are ongoing studies at the moment concerning the levels of innate morality, Manchester University in particular are doing some really interesting work. This and the recognised empathies observed in other animals would seem to point to a moral base existing before the priests corrupt it with their subjective moral teachings whereby one can only be good if you bow down to them and their craven images.

One of the oft quoted examples of cognition's effect upon our moral reasoning is that of the railroad worker Phineas Gage.

One fateful day, an accidental explosion sent a tamping iron through Gage's cheek and out the top of his head, destroying much of his medial prefrontal cortex. Gage not only survived the accident; at the time he appeared to have emerged with all of his mental capacities intact. After a two-month recuperation period Gage was pronounced cured, but it was soon apparent that Gage was damaged. Before the accident he was admired by his colleagues for his industriousness and good character. After the accident, he became lawless. He wandered around, making trouble wherever he went, unable to hold down a steady job due to his anti-social behavior

This is an extreme example of morality being more than just a subject taught by your preachers via the Jesus example.

So let's look at what the Jesus myth gave us. Every one of his moral teachings had been uttered and practiced well before the time this paragon of virtue was claimed to be strolling round raising the dead and healing the sick, which remarkably enough nobody took any notice of till a couple of centuries later. Also for all the claims of newness he also tells us we have to obey the old murderous God of the OT.

So what did he give us that's new, Hellfire and eternal damnation with escape only for the insane fascists willing to follow such a totalitarian and unpleasant man as this, don't forget this man was supposed to tell us he came carrying a sword.

Here's some Elephants with self identity, a creature also known for empathy just two of the worthy attributes your faith robs you of which happen to be necessary for any ethical basis to one's life.

reply to post by K9millionaire

Or perhaps he is neither what we define as evil is infact a means to a greater good. too many questions...lol

Have you explained that one to the survivors of the Holocaust? Because I'm pretty sure Hitler would have defined his agenda as the GREATER GOOD. And curiously, he dedicated a lot of his work to "God"s divine scheme...

reply to post by K9millionaire

Lol If you did indeed read the entire Bible and thats your all encompassing summary, your comprehensive reading skill could use some work. lol

I don't think so.

"I am omnipotent, but I can only grant peace and prosperity through the most brutally, painfully oblique and obscure methods possible. In fact, I will sacrifice my son and 20 million other people in order to fulfill a grand scheme that I could have set in place with a snap of my fingers and a thought. But no, that's too damn easy."

What's the point in lauding his amazing power and knowledge if he doesn't use it for our benefit right from the beginning? Just as our good works are rags in his eyes, his great powers are rags in my eyes unless he's shown that he has OUR best interests at heart and not just his. He has no problem being difficult with this whole process because he's not the one suffering. Oh yeah, it's easy to feel sorry for the starving kids in Africa while you're nomming on cheeseburgers and milkshakes.

reply to post by theRhenn


Since there is no other context in the form of writing to clarify what he meant, than one must derive the context from the situation in which it was said. Doing that brings me to the conclusion that it was infact a moment of doubt.

This only affirms my faith rather than shaking it. I look at it like this.

Jesus was the holiest human being God could ever create, and even he, under the worst treatment humanity has to offer, doubted God's master plan. I see this as God's means of forgiveness, proving that in this fallen world, it is impossible to lead a perfect life, with Jesus being our spokesperson to that fact. Just my take though.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Have you considered free will? It's easy to blame all the problems on earth on gods actions/lack thereof, and being all powerful, it's also logical.

Here's some logic to consider. If there is a god of the bible and there is also a heaven and hell (afterlife) as described, than that afterlife is more important in the grand scheme of things than our life on earth. Therefor, death in and of itself is neither good or evil, but a transition into the existence that matters most.

reply to post by K9millionaire Or perhaps he is neither what we define as evil is infact a means to a greater good. too many questions...lol Have you explained that one to the survivors of the Holocaust? Because I'm pretty sure Hitler would have defined his agenda as the GREATER GOOD. And curiously, he dedicated a lot of his work to "God"s divine scheme...

reply to post by AfterInfinity


Seems like you're implying that since Hitler claimed to being doing god's work, that he was. Interesting insight into your belief system. Do you believe in god and if so do you belief he is responsible for Hitler's actions?

Originally posted by K9millionaire
reply to post by theRhenn

 

Since there is no other context in the form of writing to clarify what he meant, than one must derive the context from the situation in which it was said. Doing that brings me to the conclusion that it was infact a moment of doubt.

This only affirms my faith rather than shaking it. I look at it like this.

Jesus was the holiest human being God could ever create, and even he, under the worst treatment humanity has to offer, doubted God's master plan. I see this as God's means of forgiveness, proving that in this fallen world, it is impossible to lead a perfect life, with Jesus being our spokesperson to that fact. Just my take though.

again.. thats YOUR take on it. I dont see it that way. I see it another way. But you admit there was no context so you dont know.. I doont know either, so I chalk it up to something not fully understood. You simply dont know so youre putting your own spin on it and you just cant assume like that. .. especially if you want to make an argument out of it. That's just not a logical way to bring up a an argument. There is no leg to stand on, on any side you give it.