An Independent Scotland?

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
Pardon my nose here.I am Scottish by heritage and I would like to understand something here.Is there a division in Scotland like Ireland? You guys aren't going to SHOOT are you?
Also I would suggest Scotland devise a foreign legion. Men from many countries would love citizenship there,that would take care of your army issues.

The only Division is in the heads of Bigots and they are a small minority..generally west central Scotland.
Dont worry there will be no shooting...
Look at it from this point of View..Your Republican and Loyalist Gangs..like UDA UFF UVF New IRA are nothing but a Bunch of Drug dealers using religion and Politics and 400 year old claptrap to get the Disabled of Brain Dimwits to work for them and collect money for them...nothing more nothing less.

Like your idea about a Scottish foreign Legion though, but i dont think we will need it as that's kinda what started this Orange Green divide in the first place...(see Ulster Scots)

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
Pardon my nose here.I am Scottish by heritage and I would like to understand something here.Is there a division in Scotland like Ireland? You guys aren't going to SHOOT are you?
Also I would suggest Scotland devise a foreign legion. Men from many countries would love citizenship there,that would take care of your army issues.

Yes. Its effectively the same division. I've never had any time for it myself and long considered it a tribal nonsense that we should be beyond, however it persists under the surface. In some places it persists above the surface.

I'm a realist. I think an independent scotland could function as a nation. I also think it would be harder getting there than many would like to believe and there would be a lot of upheaval and financial pain. Fundamentally i just don't see the point, I don't think we would be any better off after it all.

When times are hard in Scotland it gets blamed on westminster and the english. When times are hard in an independent Scotland that wont be there as an excuse and I do worry that existing historical fault lines will be exacerbated by the pressure.

reply to post by Soloprotocol

You would get a whole lot of Americans who would LOVE to fight for Scotland and be accepted in the Scottish community.
Returning to one's roots as it were,heck we would bring our own guns too.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

You would get a whole lot of Americans who would LOVE to fight for Scotland and be accepted in the Scottish community.
Returning to one's roots as it were,heck we would bring our own guns too.

Last i heard there were 25 million McDonald clan members...Mostly USA, Canada and Australia...that's quite a Army...Bring it China.

Originally posted by KingIcarus
reply to post by cavtrooper7

 

Oh, not at all - the relationship between the Scottish and the rest of the Union is generally very strong. There's certainly no suggestion or prospect of violence.

Independence is simply the entirely legitimate question of whether Scotland should be an independent nation from the UK, and whether it would be better or worse off as a result.

Problem is, Scotland and the rest of the UK is highly connected economically, socially etc etc so it's not a question that has a clear answer.

It's a fully legitimate matter, imo, and as an Englishman I support the Scot's right to choose. I think the UK and Scotland would both be worse off if devolved though, but they're certainly entitled to self determination.

I think he was addressing the issue of Scottish sectarianism and the potential for conflict there, rather than the relationship between Scotland and the rest of the UK.

Originally posted by Soloprotocol

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by Soloprotocol

 

You would get a whole lot of Americans who would LOVE to fight for Scotland and be accepted in the Scottish community.
Returning to one's roots as it were,heck we would bring our own guns too.

Last i heard there were 25 million McDonald clan members...Mostly USA, Canada and Australia...that's quite a Army...Bring it China.

Unfortunately we wouldn't be able to afford to pay you and you would have to leave the guns at the door. How about a whisky ration instead :-)

reply to post by justwokeup

Indeed I worry of another rash of violence occurring in Scotland. It was so damned ugly, I would be quite sad to see it.

reply to post by justwokeup


Ah yes. I think you're right.

reply to post by justwokeup

Just give them cool uniforms and sign with the UN they'll pay for it via the US.
I get all mean on whisky,just a citizenship should suffice.
Just forbid any ops on Scottish soil as well so a politician can't use them against you.

reply to post by EA006


Salmond wants to be a dictator, the SNP have been caught lying about almost everything if Scotland was to become independent. I'm sure at one point he said he wanted to take us in to the Euro currency, like someone once said " If you see a burning building, you don't run into it". He is too close to that Muppet Rupert Murdoch and we all know how much of a NWO phone tapping scum he is. Salmond and the SNP wouldn't be in power if it wasn't for Murdoch's support through the Scottish Sun.

Salmond was one of the SNP 79 group that where expelled from the party in 1982. The 79 group also went over to Ireland in 1982 to have a cosy little meeting with Sinn Fein. He has been quoted as saying that he wants Scotland to be like the Republic of Ireland (during the height of the troubles). Does that mean that he would stand by bombing of England by Scottish extremist's if the SNP don't get their own way. Jim Sillars absolutely hate's the guy and savage's him and the SNP here.......

www.telegraph.co.uk...

He was at Wimbledon recently and when Andy boy won he pulled out the Saltire from his wife's purse and started to wave it like a mad man, tried to steal Andy's thunder. It was against Wimbledon's rules i may add, flag's of that size are not permitted in or around the Royal box, that's why he sneaked it in in his wife's purse. No class. The guy's a fkn embarrassment. Andy Murray has made it well known that he was representing not just Scotland but Britain. And the irony in this is the fact that Andy Murray can't vote in the Independence election because he doesn't spend enough time in Scotland same as Alex Ferguson, Fergie was livid with Salmond for this.

Another thing that grates about this fraud is the amount of time and tax payers money he spends at sporting event's etc. He even took his dentist and the dentists wife to a fkn Runrig concert payed by the tax payer. I have no time for this fraud, you shouldn't either. Believe me.

reply to post by DrunkYogi


Eh, you missed out the Bit about Alex roaming the streets at night, slaughtering Virgins and eating Babies from the Breast's of their poorly Mothers...

Independence is not about the SNP or Alex Salmond...once we have indi we can pick and Choose our own leaders, and that choice will be made by Scots and Scots alone....be it Alex, Andy Murry or the proclaimers running for first Minister..we'll decide who we want in charge for a change

Ps...The Republic of Ireland (during the height of the troubles) was and still is a Independent country from Northern Ireland..where the (Troubles) were.....Map anyone..

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by DrunkYogi

 

Eh, you missed out the Bit about Alex roaming the streets at night, slaughtering Virgins and eating Babies from the Breast's of their poorly Mothers...

Independence is not about the SNP or Alex Salmond...once we have indi we can pick and Choose our own leaders, and that choice will be made by Scots and Scots alone....be it Alex, Andy Murry or the proclaimers running for first Minister..we'll decide who we want in charge for a change

What has slaughtering virgin's etc got to do with anything? Everything i said is factual and verifiable. Independence has everything to do with the SNP and Salmond, he's a would be dictator piece a sh*t. Scotland is better of in the UK, that twat would lead us too ruin. Most people are happy in the UK, who do you think has been stirring up the sh*t all these years. He's twisted and he's trying to force his twisted views on to the Scottish people. Rupert Murdoch and his SNP propaganda machine The Scottish Sun decided who he wanted in charge, the people only think they did.

Originally posted by DrunkYogi

Originally posted by Soloprotocol
reply to post by DrunkYogi

 

Eh, you missed out the Bit about Alex roaming the streets at night, slaughtering Virgins and eating Babies from the Breast's of their poorly Mothers...

Independence is not about the SNP or Alex Salmond...once we have indi we can pick and Choose our own leaders, and that choice will be made by Scots and Scots alone....be it Alex, Andy Murry or the proclaimers running for first Minister..we'll decide who we want in charge for a change

What has slaughtering virgin's etc got to do with anything? Everything i said is factual and verifiable. Independence has everything to do with the SNP and Salmond, he's a would be dictator piece a sh*t. Scotland is better of in the UK, that twat would lead us too ruin. Most people are happy in the UK, who do you think has been stirring up the sh*t all these years. He's twisted and he's trying to force his twisted views on to the Scottish people. Rupert Murdoch and his SNP propaganda machine The Scottish Sun decided who he wanted in charge, the people only think they did.

Apart from that He's not a bad chap..

people discussing old legions is beyond me. especially religious ones.
thats another thing an independent scotland should be allowed to do, vote its own regions, for example an independent north east. think of the per capita income for the them!

really if the vote is coming down to history then whats the point as history is already written and we are the UK, I keep repeating but anyways, since scotland has the vote might as well debate all the posibilities.

other thing was why did the people who voted for salmond vote for him knowing that this would come about and they would have to then vote against. a little strange but my guess would be the alternatives stank!

reply to post by guidetube

That's what worries the NO Vote Camp....Salmond and the SNP won once...Can they pull it off again,? but for me this is not about any one party regardless of who is at the rudder at the moment, it's about being an independent state once and for all...The UK no longer has any benefits for Scotland. we can stand on our own two feet Again just like we did for Hundreds of years without England's interference.

Originally posted by guidetube

other thing was why did the people who voted for salmond vote for him knowing that this would come about and they would have to then vote against. a little strange but my guess would be the alternatives stank!

Pretty much. Some of those who votes SNP actually are nationalists and some just wanted an alternative to labour and thats the SNP in some places and the Lib Dems in others. The Tories are dead in Scotland.

What would Scotland do about the Scottish MP's that have seats in the London Parliament? Its a pity you didn't think about this earlier because you could have had both Gordon Brown and Tony Blair.

I hope it would stop Scots sitting in the English Parliament and those of the other parts of the UK because they have their own to sit in. I just don't see when there is such integration + also in business how you could achieve a workable situation. If Scotland had wanted independence then it would have been easier to achieve had it been done after the war etc.

I doubt unless the Scots elect to keep the Queen who loves her Scottish castles etc you would be allowed independence. Our royals are not renowned for giving up any part of their wealth.

I wouldn't want to start lilterally a new country in the metaphorical sense in this economic climate because the UK economy is in such a state as well as most of Europe, that the repercussions of starting up independently are high risk. Also would Scotland have its own Central Bank and if so, you would be doomed.

I suspect that for many Scots its a wonderful idea but how practical it would be is another matter. People don't consider things like the Scottish, living in England and claiming benefit and the English visa-versa. How would that work, would each Parliament want to pay their citizens and what about the NHS, that would cause problems for people both as workers and patients. There is a lot that would have to be rearranged and it would be very expensive.

Personally I wish the Scots well with their inbdependence. Being English I would very much like independence from both the Scots and Irish and occasionally the Welsh. Perhaps we could could have gtwo referendums one for each Part of the UK becoming independent and another for being independent of Europe. I know how I would vote.

scotland is about the same size as norway and they manage the only thing that stops us being a decent country is the idiots that cannot get over religion .

we make more from whisky revenue than oil we have wind and wave power to tap plus fishing we would manage eventually .

but all our overseas ? visitors from eastern europe will not vote for yes if it means them leaving if it stops us being in the e.u we would not have to supply benefits to them which means our jobless total would vanish overnight .

scotland still has single track roads in some parts and third world countrys have better broadband what are the benefits of us remaining part of the u.k when we are treated already like a separate country .

if we are a united kingdom why do they have free travel and free prescriptions for some and not for all a postcode lottery for medicine and charge double for postage to the highlands .

it is time for us to be a nation again stand on our own two feet if we are a drain on westminster let us go

Originally posted by geobro
scotland is about the same size as norway and they manage the only thing that stops us being a decent country is the idiots that cannot get over religion .

- We are a decent country at the moment.

we make more from whisky revenue than oil we have wind and wave power to tap plus fishing we would manage eventually .

- Wave and wind power is currently not harvestable on an economic basis where is doesn't require a big taxpayer subsidy. Its also not an exportable commodity like oil or gas. You cant sell it abroad. When Salmond bangs on about renewables he's just spraying his bull# hose to the gullible.

but all our overseas ? visitors from eastern europe will not vote for yes if it means them leaving if it stops us being in the e.u we would not have to supply benefits to them which means our jobless total would vanish overnight .

- An independent Scotland would apply to the EU and would be admitted on less favourable terms than the UK currently enjoys.

scotland still has single track roads in some parts and third world countrys have better broadband what are the benefits of us remaining part of the u.k when we are treated already like a separate country .

- England still has single track roads in places and crap broadband outside the cities. The point is a red herring. There is wealth inequality in the UK but it applies to the middle and north of england just as equally. Its an issue to be tackled within the UK not by running away.

if we are a united kingdom why do they have free travel and free prescriptions for some and not for all

- Because Scotland currently has a certain amount of devolved power allowing it to decide how it spends the money allocated to it.

a postcode lottery for medicine

- Because some regions have an NHS with better management than others. How this figures into a nationalism argument I have no idea.

and charge double for postage to the highlands .

- Thats not going to get any better in any event. You live far from transport hubs you'll pay more for postage.

it is time for us to be a nation again stand on our own two feet if we are a drain on westminster let us go

- They will let us go. A lot of them will be happy to see the back of us. Needless to say the vote has to be won first and I and many like me are happy the way things are. I am quite happy as British.

Inline.

I'm all for self-determination.
It's Scotland's right to choose as they see fit.

But one question;
Would Scotland respect the rights of The Shetland Islanders etc?
They have quite openly stated that they have no desire whatsoever to be a part of an independent Scotland and that whilst they would prefer to remain a part of the UK they would however prefer to be entirely independent rather than be a part of an independent Scotland.

The people of the northern isles feel just as alienated from Edinburgh as they do London.

What about the oil revenue then?