Police respond to 'serious incident' in Woolwich

Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Other people, had they been armed WOULD OF STOPPED THIS HAPPENING!

How many times must it be rammed into your thick skulls that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a weapon IS A GOOD GUY WITH A WEAPON!

People should be allowed to be armed with at the very least a non-lethal deterrant like pepper spray or rubber trauma pistol etc.

They ran their victim over with their car first (he was probably dead before they attacked him with knifes), pepper spray so that stops cars does it.

They did not threaten anyone else even the people taking pictures or video the guy was targeted for being a soldier.

Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Other people, had they been armed WOULD OF STOPPED THIS HAPPENING!

How many times must it be rammed into your thick skulls that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a weapon IS A GOOD GUY WITH A WEAPON!

People should be allowed to be armed with at the very least a non-lethal deterrant like pepper spray or rubber trauma pistol etc.

At what point does someone get their gun out and start shooting?

The people there thought the car crash was an accident, and the men were helping the man they had crashed into. He would have already been dead within a minute, if he wasn't dead from the impact already...

Se, tell me time traveler, when should the people all around who had no idea of what was happening opened fire on random people they have no idea about?

The American pro-gun argument has no place whatsoever in this thread and discussion, as has been mentioned by a mod already. Please take your pro-gun AMERICAN debate to a relevant discussion.

reply to post by WatchRider


how would pepper spray stop a car from smashing into you

how would a machine gun mega uzi stop a car from smashing into you

Originally posted by 0rbital
Bullcrap, for so many reasons. Can you not get it through to your thick skull that we don't want an armed society? We don't want mass shootings, we don't want our children shot at school ect ect ect.

Though I agree a certain level of non-lethal protection should be available, nothing more than the likes of pepper spray though.

As long as I didn't have to worry about anyone shooting me from a safe distance, I'd be happy with the right to carry an extendable baton for self-protection. Once guns are thrown into the mix tho', you can't defend yourself against a surprise attack, whatever weapon you may be carrying.

reply to post by bates


I'm going to vote whoever suggests Concrete Bollards along every pavement in England to curb the threat!

reply to post by wmd_2008

Right lets see lets all pull back then, so when some third world country has a disaster say flood, earthquake or famine etc we don't give any assistance the UK gives a lot for efforts to help in those situations both from official sources and from the public.

Giving aid when it is WANTED is noble of course and has nothing to do with war! It has nothing to do with attacking another country, does it?

Would you rather see the Taliban, shooting women because they want an education and keeping there country effectively in the dark ages or allowing 50 year old men to marry an 8 your old girl and kill her(another thread on here)

No you are totally right, what we should do is go over there and bomb the **** out of all of them, killing hundreds of thousands of men women and children! At least then they can not be abused... Do you know in england we also used to treat our women and children like dirt, but over time through EDUCATION we have evolved... Surely this is a much better way to deal with it?

So the easiest way would be not to get involved in either situation every one fends for themselves I would like to see the outcome of that

How do you honestly think that bombing a country for decades can help the ordinary folks? When we bomb them they don't only have the evil people in thier country to deal with they also have US to deal with too! How is that helping the situation? How can bombing them into the stone age help them out of the stone age?

There was a vid with a news reporter that asked some US politician about the deaths in afghanistan or iraq, sorry can't remember, there were reports of 500,000 children DEAD! The politician said that it was an acceptable price to pay! Can you believe that? Do you agree with that? Do you think those children would agree too? Would their family members agree?

Originally posted by Jukiodone

If we were a bit more pragmatic and treated everyone who believes in magic men with beards with the same suspicion as someone who sees Bigfoot or a UFO for e.g ,it might help to put some sort of perspective as to just how bat guano crazy they have actually become.

edit on 23-5-2013 by Jukiodone because: (no reason given)

That's real nice of you. I hope we never get as "pragmatic" as you prescribe.

This comes across as being staged to me. It's funny how they don't mention that this was a racist attack. If a white man done the same to a Muslim, they'd be pulling out all those adjectives; racist, hate crime, xenophobic, etc. We live in a country where you have these immigrants who hate us and our customs, but publicly they act like they like us. That is the message I am getting.

reply to post by seabhac-rua


We already know you are too nice though....
I immediately thought of your thread when I saw the news so your time wasn't wasted.

Not being too nice and allowing people to get silly over made up things is why we eventually tell kids there is no Santa.
An adult who believes in Santa may be OK at first but once they start devoting their life to understanding how the reindeers names came into being and altering science to explain Santa's flying sleigh; it would be virtually impossible for them to integrate normally in society.

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Other people, had they been armed WOULD OF STOPPED THIS HAPPENING!

How many times must it be rammed into your thick skulls that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a weapon IS A GOOD GUY WITH A WEAPON!

People should be allowed to be armed with at the very least a non-lethal deterrant like pepper spray or rubber trauma pistol etc.

At what point does someone get their gun out and start shooting?

The people there thought the car crash was an accident, and the men were helping the man they had crashed into. He would have already been dead within a minute, if he wasn't dead from the impact already...

Se, tell me time traveler, when should the people all around who had no idea of what was happening opened fire on random people they have no idea about?

The American pro-gun argument has no place whatsoever in this thread and discussion, as has been mentioned by a mod already. Please take your pro-gun AMERICAN debate to a relevant discussion.

Exactly right Rocker 1234

I wish those gun-ho Americans would stop trying to use any event to justify their silly fanaticism to have a gun.......

As you illustrated, the cowardly murder was committed before most knew what was happening... Carrying a gun would have made no difference.....

Regards

PDUK

Double post....... Oops

reply to post by Jukiodone

Ok, so for the first time I agree with you.

However, treating somebody with "suspicion" because of their beliefs goes against what I would expect to hear from you, right?

Originally posted by TheBlackHat
England is a funny place these days...I mean who stands there and films some syco nutjob like that, close up, after he has just cut someone to bits, right in front of them???? Did they think it wasn't real life or something????
Another thing I cant understand is if this was outside an army barracks, couldn't the army have come out and dispatched these two lunatics? instead of waiting 20 minutes for the armed cops?
The nutter on camera has a London accent as well, so we gotta look at what goes on in London, if we are getting people like that who obviously have been brought up there, doing this kind of thing..although a white woman did the same thing to another woman on the street not long ago, for no reason, in London as well.
Imagine if these Islamic extremists had any brains about them, it would have been 100 times worse. 20 minutes for the cops to show up whilst someone is getting their head taken off, does not inspire confidence in me, or the fact it happened outside a barracks.
I know the end result in this will be these two will be known as mentally unstable, no doubt, I mean a "standard" (and I use that term very loosley) terrorist isn't going to stand there waiting for the police to show up...These nutters are clearly totally gone in the head. No doubt they will be a couple of care in the community types...

Or can Islam really brainwash people to this extent????? If so then why be soft on it...I mean i am no expert on such things, but in the UK we have had 20+ years of political correctness pretty much enforced on us, through the media and social engineering...we were told about multiculturalism..but it is all BS, the cultures all keep to themselves in a very diverse but very divided country. For the record though, it was never a smart move to join the US in those bl00dy oil wars, especially when you have a few million muslims living on your own soil...not clever mr Blair, you idiot.

edit on 22-5-2013 by TheBlackHat because: (no reason given)

Back in the day those two creatures would of been despatched like the rabid dogs that they are.

Unfortunately many UK barracks now have civilian guards who are like pussycats and are afraid to even think about using their firearms. All armed forces personnel are essentially disarmed unless on-duty or operations. Reservists are not armed, people can't even carry none-lethal weapons.

UK police, even the armed ones are defensive and not aggressive and imo wait until the deed is done so they face easier targets who have committed the acts. The local police didn't do anything, the handgun one of the creatures was using had blew up it in it's hand such was it's age.

Over the past 90 years or so gun rights have been rolled back and the populace has stuck their head in the sand.

Originally posted by PurpleDog UK

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Other people, had they been armed WOULD OF STOPPED THIS HAPPENING!

How many times must it be rammed into your thick skulls that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a weapon IS A GOOD GUY WITH A WEAPON!

People should be allowed to be armed with at the very least a non-lethal deterrant like pepper spray or rubber trauma pistol etc.

At what point does someone get their gun out and start shooting?

The people there thought the car crash was an accident, and the men were helping the man they had crashed into. He would have already been dead within a minute, if he wasn't dead from the impact already...

Se, tell me time traveler, when should the people all around who had no idea of what was happening opened fire on random people they have no idea about?

The American pro-gun argument has no place whatsoever in this thread and discussion, as has been mentioned by a mod already. Please take your pro-gun AMERICAN debate to a relevant discussion.

Exactly right Rocker 1234

I wish those gun-ho Americans would stop trying to use any event to justify their silly fanaticism to have a gun.......

As you illustrated, the cowardly murder was committed before most knew what was happening... Carrying a gun would have made no difference.....

Regards

PDUK

I am from the UK and I think people should have the right to defend themselves, not everyone can fight... I see no problem with people having guns for defence if they feel they need them...

That being said I agree in THIS situation having guns available would change nothing, but there are plenty of stories in the US where guns have saved people from attackers...

Now on the cowardly subject, do you feel that flying in a plane and dropping a bomb is cowardly too?

Originally posted by Rocker2013

Originally posted by WatchRider
reply to post by mr-lizard

 

Other people, had they been armed WOULD OF STOPPED THIS HAPPENING!

How many times must it be rammed into your thick skulls that the only thing that stops a bad guy with a weapon IS A GOOD GUY WITH A WEAPON!

People should be allowed to be armed with at the very least a non-lethal deterrant like pepper spray or rubber trauma pistol etc.

At what point does someone get their gun out and start shooting?

The people there thought the car crash was an accident, and the men were helping the man they had crashed into. He would have already been dead within a minute, if he wasn't dead from the impact already...

Se, tell me time traveler, when should the people all around who had no idea of what was happening opened fire on random people they have no idea about?

The American pro-gun argument has no place whatsoever in this thread and discussion, as has been mentioned by a mod already. Please take your pro-gun AMERICAN debate to a relevant discussion.

This is about defending yourself which the UK has every right to have, so stop with the strawman BS.

However here's an example of a US incident.

The Oregon Mall shooter (2012) was stopped by an armed citizen. There's your time travel bit for last year.

Back to the UK.

People don't have to be sherlock holmes either to know when someone is a threat. Seeing a guy with blood dripping from his knife having just beheaded someone should tell you something unless your IQ is below 60

Maybe you are some pathetic coward who would sit on his hands or run away, but let me tell you something. Many people in this country are made of stronger stuff.

Finally thread is infested with liberal, hoplophobic traitors who basically clandestinely like the fact a soldier (a White soldier) has been murdered and are defending ANY criticism that empowers people to take a stand on this issue!

Rocker, an empty wagon (you) makes a loud noise and this will be my last post on this thread.

Suffice it to say you are the lowest of the low and spineless if you think people cannot defend themselves against such animals with none-lethal weapons.

Originally posted by seabhac-rua
reply to post by Jukiodone

 

Ok, so for the first time I agree with you.

However, treating somebody with "suspicion" because of their beliefs goes against what I would expect to hear from you, right?

Therein lies the issue.
It is NEVER just "their" own personally arrived at belief.
It is always a variant of someone elses "belief".

Teaching kids to seperate other peoples beliefs from their own moral reality will inevitably lead to stronger adults so yes, treat people who blindly believe fairytales with suspicion because at some point; they will do something crazy and use other people beliefs to explain their craziness.

This is not a gun advocacy thread.

Stick to the topic.

Apparently the attacker who spoke to the passer-by with a camera phone has been identified.
It has also been reported that Anjam Choudary knows this individual and has said that he used to attend meeting of his now banned group Al-Muhajiran.
focus-world-news.freeforums.net...#

Choudary states that this guy stopped attending these meetings about two years ago and;

He denied that Mujahid could have been radicalised by his teachings, adding that more extremist material, including the sermons of Yemen-based cleric Anwar Al Awlaki and the Al Qaeda-linked magazine Inspire, have been easily available via the internet.

I really don't understand the arguements over the nationality of the attackers.

It seems quite apparent now that at least one of them is British born of Nigerian descent - that makes him Britsh, end of story.
Does it somehow alter in any way shape or form the barbaric nature of this murder or anything else relating to it?

It is noticeable that many of those who convert / re-affirm their Islamic faith become more extreme and willing to prove their faith than many who are born and remain within that faith.

Originally posted by Exitt

Originally posted by GrandStrategy

Let me get this right. Giving someone a British citizenship doesn't make them a British citizen?

Why are you being so childish? I understood him completely, maybe because i myself am an immigrant.
People who are born somewhere, then move to another country and get citizenship - they are still from wherever they were born. In many cases (mine too) the second generation, our children are also socially and culturally connected to the parent land of origin even though those children were born and raised in (this case) England.

That means visiting family, learning the language of your parents, eating and preparing food specifically from that area, listening to music they listen to and in case of radical Muslims - they are taught many more things, regarding religion, family, work, rules of conduct etc.

So just because i have German citizenship, i am not German nor will i ever become German when i am Mediterranean and my children are part Med.also.

edit on 23-5-2013 by Exitt because: .

Actually there is a well know phenomenon call "Aculturation" please look it up. And also consider his accent which was "Sarf Lundon".

The problem with this form of terrorism is that it many of these terrorists were home grown and were usually kids and even children who decided to become radicalised into this form of terrorism. There are many immigrants who have died for this country as serving soldiers. Something that you seem unaware of!

Also may commonwealth countries have a rich tradition of supporting the war effort in both world wars!!