Biden: Jewish Leaders Drove Gay Marriage Changes

Originally posted by sk0rpi0n
I'm simply quoting what Biden said.... that Jewish industry leaders have influenced American attitudes regarding gay marriage.

If that is all he said .. then I'd agree that they contributed.

But the title of this thread says that Biden said ... 'Jewish Leaders DROVE Gay Marriage Changes'.
And somewhere on here the number %85 percent came up.
That's just Biden pulling a number out of a hat. He has no idea.

And I have to stick with 'pandering' because Biden is definately anti-gay marriage and for him
to supposedly applaud a group he's standing in front of for pushing gay marriage ... that just
reeks of pander .. ya' know??

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

It certainly came across to me that your commentary after the Biden quote was not neutral but supported his views that demonstrate how the Jewish minority has manipulated the US majority to be more open to gay equality.

I'm sure many pro-Palestinian activists would disagree that their efforts have no impact.
As with apartheid a just resolution can take many years.
Perhaps things would be more effective if more people were convinced (or more reassured) that they were indeed struggling for human rights, and not ultimately extremist groups that would further harm human rights once they came to power.

The gay leaders I've mentioned are not just pro-Palestinian.
They actively want to boycott Israel and harm a quintessential part of Jewish business.
That kind of activism is only gaining momentum here, and many former anti-apartheid activists know how important disinvestment can be.
However, there's also a big fundamentalist Christian lobby and market who are both anti-gay and pro-Israel.
Currently their consumer support for Israel overrides any consumer boycott.

As long as my comments showed that the issue is more complex than intimated by Biden and the OP that's OK. Because currently the issues are very complex.

If the Jews were indeed responsible for more social tolerance since McCarthyism in the US then maybe the Muslims owe them a big handshake, because if 9/11 happened under McCarthy I doubt there would have been significant Muslim communities left in the US except for internment camps.

Originally posted by Auricom
reply to post by mikeone718

 

Yep, same trick but with different actors. This news isn't new to me. I don't hold anything against people of the Jewish faith (even had a Jewish fiance at one point), but some Jewish organizations have their fingers in places they shouldn't have. Like the Jewish group in Sweden pushing heavily for more immigration. (As if Malmo's destruction isn't enough.)

This goes beyond their religious beliefs and delves more into their political ambitions. And I think it's very important that we on ATS can recognize the differences.

read: ZIONISM

which is the crux of the issue

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


For those "Jewish leaders" to effectively change a particular thing means
they acted with aforethought and co-ordination

Since these industry leaders are not the top of the food chain
I wonder who is

I also wonder if the evangalical christians who so love the hate of palistinians and muslims know that they are so much more the target of the same hate themselves....
on second thought...naw...they probably don't have the parts

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


And here I thought it was those "anti-christian" athests who were driving this country to ...... in a handbasket.
Imagine my surprise that these people are actually responsible for anything the evangelicals would be against.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by buster2010
Oh sure it's a hoax. If you do a little comparing it's a blueprint for what the Zionist are doing around the world.

Figures . Dude .. it's a proven hoax. No matter how much a person hates the Jews or Israel or thinks there's a shadowy zionist conspiracy to take over the world ... no matter how much a person hangs out at StormFront to get his information ..... the Protocols are a PROVEN HOAX. Deal with it.

ETA .. in the HOAX bin - ATS Thread on the HOAX - Protocols of Elders of Zion

ATS Thread - Protocols, fact or fiction
Referred to by management as nothing more than a 'hate thread' .. which is accurate.

edit on 5/22/2013 by FlyersFan because: (no reason given)

I never said anything about Jews I said Zionist. Show me where in the Jewish faith where it says it's ok for gays to marry.

Originally posted by buster2010
I never said anything about Jews I said Zionist. Show me where in the Jewish faith where it says it's ok for gays to marry.

Pretty much the entirety of Judaism supports same sex marriage in most contexts.. except the Orthodox.

A little reading for you to get started.

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by buster2010
I never said anything about Jews I said Zionist.

What you said was that you support the PROVEN HOAX - Protocols of the Elders of Zion.
I posted the links which contain the information showing that they are HOAXES.
Two threads with link after link embedded in them giving the information.

And did you miss where I said this .... "or thinks there's a shadowy zionist conspiracy to take over the world" .... (hint - that would be you)

Show me where in the Jewish faith where it says it's ok for gays to marry.

Reconstructionist Judaism, Reform Judaism and Conservative Judaism generally approve it.
What's that got to do with anything that I have posted?

I said that Biden was pandering. He's anti-gay marriage.
Yet he stood in front of a group of Jews and patted them on the back
for their efforts to bring about change in favor of gay marriage.
That's a typical politician pandering to an audience. Nothing more.

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by buster2010
I never said anything about Jews I said Zionist. Show me where in the Jewish faith where it says it's ok for gays to marry.

Pretty much the entirety of Judaism supports same sex marriage in most contexts.. except the Orthodox.

A little reading for you to get started.

en.wikipedia.org...

Really? From your link.

The American branch of Conservative Judaism formally approves of same-sex marriage ceremonies.[3] Some synagogues within Conservative Judaism still reject recognition of same-sex unions as marriages, but permit celebration of commitment ceremonies, in part as an expression of their belief that scripture requires monogamy of all sexually active couples.[4] The decision avoids applying the Jewish legal term for marriage, kiddushin, to the same-sex situation, as the term is gender-specific

By the looks of it only one group accepts same sex marriage and the other it is left up to the Rabbi. So the pretty much all of Judaism supporting gay marriage is a joke.

reply to post by FlyersFan

What you said was that you support the PROVEN HOAX - Protocols of the Elders of Zion. I posted the links which contain the information showing that they are HOAXES. Two threads with link after link embedded in them giving the information. And did you miss where I said this .... "or thinks there's a shadowy zionist conspiracy to take over the world" .... (hint - that would be you)

I see you have never read the protocols. It is very easy to see the things that are listed in and compare it to what is going on today and how it matches. People scream it is hate speech that is why they call it a hoax.

Originally posted by buster2010

Originally posted by MichaelPMaccabee

Originally posted by buster2010
I never said anything about Jews I said Zionist. Show me where in the Jewish faith where it says it's ok for gays to marry.

Pretty much the entirety of Judaism supports same sex marriage in most contexts.. except the Orthodox.

A little reading for you to get started.

en.wikipedia.org...

Really? From your link.

The American branch of Conservative Judaism formally approves of same-sex marriage ceremonies.[3] Some synagogues within Conservative Judaism still reject recognition of same-sex unions as marriages, but permit celebration of commitment ceremonies, in part as an expression of their belief that scripture requires monogamy of all sexually active couples.[4] The decision avoids applying the Jewish legal term for marriage, kiddushin, to the same-sex situation, as the term is gender-specific

By the looks of it only one group accepts same sex marriage and the other it is left up to the Rabbi. So the pretty much all of Judaism supporting gay marriage is a joke.

As a goyim, I'm not surprised that you don't understand the intricacies of what rabbinical support means in the context of what is or isn't allowed to happen within a temple, or what a kiddushin is.

Let me tell you again, just for funsies, most everyone with the exception of the fundies support gay marriage as an institution. Try to separate legal marriage and ceremonial marriage, however, because it makes a difference.

reply to post by buster2010


Um no...

They call it a hoax because it is a fabricated document that was made for propaganda purposes.

Are you suggesting that it is not a hoax? That the document is genuine?

From what I can gather the Jews have not attempted to dominate the world in any way shape or form. Yes they dominated a strip of ancient desert, one that had been fought over for thousands of years, but if you take this as proof that the Protocols are some how a prophetic document then I'm sorry to say that I believe you are delusional.

except for those jews whom are violently opposed to gay marriage or women sitting in the front. Everyone can cherrypick. But I am not surprised somebody whom looks more like the guys whom were in the watchtower has to remind everybody he is really jewish.

What's most worrying about the OP is a notion that the Jews are to blame for things that seem "progressive" and "good", but which are by implication really "bad", in this case to anti-gay campaigners.
Why they are bad is not really discussed, but perhaps because Jews may be involved it must be bad.

Oh dear.
Some also blame the Jews for multiculturalism in Europe, and for encouraging Islamic immigration which they wouldn't tolerate in Israel, but let's rather not go there.

Yes, there are right-wing sites which blame the Jews for the evil of "Islam" in Western countries.
When Jews stand up for religious rights of Muslims to build mosques and minarets, or offer circumcision in their European hospitals, they are good enough for Muslims.

Sometimes the Jews are good enough for Christians, and sometimes they are blamed for Christian persecution by radical Islamism.
theatheistconservative.com...

The Jews are to blame for everything, it seems.
Of course in the case of gay marriage the evidence is particularly flimsy or limited to a liberal stream.
I mean Will and Grace is evidence for manipulating gay marriage today?
A TV sitcom that ended in 2006 with a limited viewership and debates about gay stereotyping?

It's actually the most ridiculous Jewish conspiracy ever, considering the Christian conspiracies (see Scott Lively for example) that gay Nazi satanists once wanted to wipe out Judeo-Christian culture.
Oh right, the Jews actually caused the holocaust too, or somehow invented it.
How ridiculous.

Enough of Mein Camp.

Maoris breaking out in song when gay marriage was legalized in New Zealand, or gay African traditional weddings in South Africa show that there is support for gay marriage across the globe, and minority rights should be protected on legal grounds for many reasons, especially if white people want to keep their land in postcolonialist countries like South Africa.

New Zealand Parliament breaks into song as same-sex marriage is legalized:



African traditional gay wedding in South Africa:

Not really surprising. The Jewish faith is the most tolerant of religions.

It's curious how this thread hasn't been deleted. It smacks of antisemitism.

Here's a simple, plausible, down-to-earth reasoning for what Joe Biden said.

Jews are tremendously successful people. Wherever you look, like it or not, they outperform non-Jews in academic areas. Whether it be business - where they are most conspicuous - or in the sciences, ala Albert Einstein, Niels Bohr (Mother was Jewish), Wolfgang Paulie, Richard Feynman, in physics; Noam Chomsky, Jerry Fodor and Steven Pinker, in cognitive linguistics. Jews seem to stand out. I think it's something like 20% of all Nobel prize winners have been Jewish, and given they represent a mere fraction of a percent of world population, that is a truly outstanding over-representation.

Instead of looking at these people and wondering, as a scientific minded thinker would: what makes these people so talented? What is it about their historical evolution as a people that primed them so well for intellectual pursuits? Was it the intellectually stimulating study of the Talmud, which they made mandatory for all men, which has made their brains more 'attuned' to the intricacies of science?

These are normal explanations for Jewish exceptionality. Abhorrent, and pathetically envious people, on the other hand, can't stand to think that Jews have earned their own exceptionality. They need to continue the pea-brained idiocy of Christianities anti-Judaism, and the antisemitism of the 19th and 20th centuries, posit the existence of a secret Jewish ruling elite, that for some reason or another, the non-Jewish submissively cower before.

This theory would be more compelling if it weren't for their across-the-board intellectual brilliance. If it was just business and banking that they excelled in, fine, that would warrant suspicion. But it's not just business and banking. Its also physics, mathematics, computer sciences, psychology, cognitive sciences and many other fields. Jews are the intellectual cream of the crop of ethnic groups. No other group even comes close. Instead of being jealous - hating on the successful simply because they're successful, try learning something about them, appreciating them, and for a positive spin, compete with them.

As for promoting Gay marriage. This is surely where your theory runs into contradictions. Judaism is traditionally opposed to gay marriage. Yet, of course, if I were to ask you "how long have the Jews been in power", you would no doubt reference the long-standing Christian and Muslim opposition to Jews as being indicative of the Jews perennial hold on society (regardless of what accepted history tells us, apparently). Then...one wonders, why would Jews be promoting gay marriage? Why are Jews so liberal, despite the conservative orthodoxy of their Torah? For people who care about history. Modern Jews are liberals. Traditional Jews were conservatives. At around the 18th and 19th century, Judaism underwent a series of reformations which essentially made it unrecognizable to traditional Rabbinic Judaism. These Judaisms went one way, while the Orthodox stayed the same. Fast forward through the generations, Jews make use of their finance acumen and become big-time money lenders in a new free market economy. Jews from all places joined universities, purused degrees in chemistry, physics, mathematics, geology, natural science, etc. Eventually, these liberal Jews played a disproportionate part in building up our modern world. Since after world war II, these Jews have been working a universalist agenda - which, btw, is not a conspiracy, but an obvious trend. In order to avoid another holocaust, people need to become more tolerant of each other. Hence, their widespread promotion of gay rights, abortion rights, animal rights, etc.

reply to post by intrepid


Am I sensing some sarcasm?

Actually, compared to Islam and Christianity, with regard to outsiders, Jews have been, ironically, less vitriolic with their understanding of non-Jews.

But besides that, traditional Judaism has its extreme beliefs.

reply to post by Astrocyte


Fundies are fundies, man. Everyone's got them. We just all just gotta try to keep them in check.

Originally posted by Astrocyte
reply to post by intrepid

 

Am I sensing some sarcasm?

Not one bit. You look at Jews outlook on gays and it's pretty much, "Live and let live." Islam and Christianity, not so friendly.

But besides that, traditional Judaism has its extreme beliefs.

No doubt. Everyone does. Yet to see any entity that was as disgusting as Westboro though.

Originally posted by buster2010
I see you have never read the protocols.

They are a proven hoax. What part of PROVEN don't you get.

Originally posted by Openeye
They call it a hoax because it is a fabricated document that was made for propaganda purposes.

There ya' go. Exactly. And the information has been given here, many times, showing that they are indeed a hoax and have been known to be a hoax since before WWII ... but some people refuse to abandon the propaganda that the Nazis put out. hmmmm ....