How soon before Constitutional America is a thing of the past?

There are two Americas. The soon to be dead Constitutional America and the ever growing New America. Many here know how our rights are being slowly taken away. From the Police either not knowing the laws they are supposed to enforce or just making up laws to justify their actions, to now, a citizen being jailed as a terrorist over lyrics he wrote for a rap song.

[Link To Petition Removed]

Let me also ask how many laws are passed each year by politicians where we, as citizens, have no input whatsoever. And how many of these laws benefit the citizens vs the corporations? Did you know that in Utah it is illegal to photograph livestock?

A Utah woman facing jail time for video recording a cow from a public street was relieved to learn her charge had been dropped Tuesday.

But that was only because her case had generated a national media firestorm.

Otherwise, Salt Lake City prosecutor Ben Rasmussen would likely have proceeded in his case against Amy Meyer, the first person prosecuted under the state’s “ag-gag” law, one of several that have popped up throughout the country in the past year at the insistence of farming lobbyists.

It essentially boils down to the farming industry not wanting us to see how they treat the animals we eat, so they’ve bribed lawmakers in several states to draft or pass laws that forbid citizens from video recording or photographing the internal operations of factory farms.

Utah woman facing jail time for video taping cows

The America we used to live in is no more. And I believe it is gone for good. Today, our government tries to silence the Paul Reveres’ and imprison the George Washingtons’. They will hold onto power despite the costs and then wield it with impunity. They have set themselves above the law and with a nudge and a wink, they can get away with destroying that which they swore to protect. But can they hear the rumblings of revolution that is starting in the hearts and minds of those they swore to "serve"?

Hopefully very soon.

Sorry, I'd rather not revert back to a time when African-Americans were hung on trees in neighborhoods and colored children were beaten or killed for talking to white women. Segregation wasn't cool either, nor was the discrimination towards women in the world. Let's also not forget imperialism! Driving Native Americans out of reservations and pointless wars (that still go on to this day)... yeah America was so much better than now.

Don't live your life by a document written 300 years ago.

Originally posted by alienmma
Hopefully very soon.

Sorry, I'd rather not revert back to a time when African-Americans were hung on trees in neighborhoods and colored children were beaten or killed for talking to white women. Segregation wasn't cool either, nor was the discrimination towards women in the world. Let's also not forget imperialism! Driving Native Americans out of reservations and pointless wars (that still go on to this day)... yeah America was so much better than now.

Don't live your life by a document written 300 years ago.

Its funny what little history you know.

what does the Constitution have to do with anything you described up above?

It’s in an amendment in the constitution that no man shall be slaves. So you still what the constitution gone?

You know the founders originally noted slavery as a “stain” on this great nation people like John Jay, great supporter of the Constitution after its creation and an author of The Federalist wrote in 1786, "It is much to be wished that slavery may be abolished.

Patrick Henry, the great Virginian patriot, refused to attend the Convention because he "smelt a rat," was outspoken on the issue, despite his citizenship in a slave state. In 1773, he wrote, "I believe a time will come when an opportunity will be offered to abolish this lamentable evil.

Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, which, famously, declares that "all men are created equal," wrote, "There must doubtless be an unhappy influence on the manners of our people produced by the existence of slavery among us. The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other. Our children see this, and learn to imitate it; for man is an imitative animal.

www.usconstitution.net...

All Nations have there Stains. Please find me one that Doesn’t.

Okay, you are right. I was being blind to the world we live and have lived in. I guess we have never been a perfect country or society. We are ever evolving. I guess the question then is how do we make sure we don't evolve into something we hate? My idealistic opinions of the OP were just that, idealistic. Time to look at my world views and readjust my thinking.

Thanks for showing me reality.

reply to post by alienmma

Hopefully very soon.

Sorry, I'd rather not revert back to a time when African-Americans were hung on trees in neighborhoods and colored children were beaten or killed for talking to white women. Segregation wasn't cool either, nor was the discrimination towards women in the world. Let's also not forget imperialism! Driving Native Americans out of reservations and pointless wars (that still go on to this day)... yeah America was so much better than now.

Don't live your life by a document written 300 years ago.

You miss the beauty and freedom that was provided by the wise words of our forebearers! Was it not BECAUSE of the Constitution and the evolution of man that the words written on that 300 year old document were able to advance our country?

The Constitution is not the problem! The problem is corruption and power!

I would really love to know what document promotes freedom and an ability for society to grow that was thought out as well as the US Constitution. Nothing is perfect, and I will not deny the atrocities committed by people in power whom are now dead. However, I will take the words of that old 300 year old document over ANY PLAN that the NWO has planned for us........

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by alienmma
Hopefully very soon.

Sorry, I'd rather not revert back to a time when African-Americans were hung on trees in neighborhoods and colored children were beaten or killed for talking to white women. Segregation wasn't cool either, nor was the discrimination towards women in the world. Let's also not forget imperialism! Driving Native Americans out of reservations and pointless wars (that still go on to this day)... yeah America was so much better than now.

Don't live your life by a document written 300 years ago.

Its funny what little history you know.

what does the Constitution have to do with anything you described up above?

It’s in an amendment in the constitution that no man shall be slaves. So you still what the constitution gone?

You know the founders originally noted slavery as a “stain” on this great nation people like John Jay, great supporter of the Constitution after its creation and an author of The Federalist wrote in 1786, "It is much to be wished that slavery may be abolished.

Patrick Henry, the great Virginian patriot, refused to attend the Convention because he "smelt a rat," was outspoken on the issue, despite his citizenship in a slave state. In 1773, he wrote, "I believe a time will come when an opportunity will be offered to abolish this lamentable evil.

Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, which, famously, declares that "all men are created equal," wrote, "There must doubtless be an unhappy influence on the manners of our people produced by the existence of slavery among us. The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other. Our children see this, and learn to imitate it; for man is an imitative animal.

www.usconstitution.net...

All Nations have there Stains. Please find me one that Doesn’t.

edit on 21-5-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-5-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

The OP is saying that we need to go back to that time, but at that time life wasn't good either.
In the Constitution, native americans and africans are deemed as private property.

It's a well known fact that many of the founding fathers were dubious in their actions and were common hypocrites. Such as the fact that many farmers' crops and farms were taken by the government after the Revolutionary War, after supposedly fighting that against the British.

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by alienmma
Hopefully very soon.

Sorry, I'd rather not revert back to a time when African-Americans were hung on trees in neighborhoods and colored children were beaten or killed for talking to white women. Segregation wasn't cool either, nor was the discrimination towards women in the world. Let's also not forget imperialism! Driving Native Americans out of reservations and pointless wars (that still go on to this day)... yeah America was so much better than now.

Don't live your life by a document written 300 years ago.

Its funny what little history you know.

what does the Constitution have to do with anything you described up above?

It’s in an amendment in the constitution that no man shall be slaves. So you still what the constitution gone?

You know the founders originally noted slavery as a “stain” on this great nation people like John Jay, great supporter of the Constitution after its creation and an author of The Federalist wrote in 1786, "It is much to be wished that slavery may be abolished.

Patrick Henry, the great Virginian patriot, refused to attend the Convention because he "smelt a rat," was outspoken on the issue, despite his citizenship in a slave state. In 1773, he wrote, "I believe a time will come when an opportunity will be offered to abolish this lamentable evil.

Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, which, famously, declares that "all men are created equal," wrote, "There must doubtless be an unhappy influence on the manners of our people produced by the existence of slavery among us. The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other. Our children see this, and learn to imitate it; for man is an imitative animal.

www.usconstitution.net...

All Nations have there Stains. Please find me one that Doesn’t.

edit on 21-5-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-5-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

The OP is saying that we need to go back to that time, but at that time life wasn't good either.
In the Constitution, native americans and africans are deemed as private property.

It's a well known fact that many of the founding fathers were dubious in their actions and were common hypocrites. Such as the fact that many farmers' crops and farms were taken by the government after the Revolutionary War, after supposedly fighting that against the British.

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by alienmma

 

Hopefully very soon.

Sorry, I'd rather not revert back to a time when African-Americans were hung on trees in neighborhoods and colored children were beaten or killed for talking to white women. Segregation wasn't cool either, nor was the discrimination towards women in the world. Let's also not forget imperialism! Driving Native Americans out of reservations and pointless wars (that still go on to this day)... yeah America was so much better than now.

Don't live your life by a document written 300 years ago.

You miss the beauty and freedom that was provided by the wise words of our forebearers! Was it not BECAUSE of the Constitution and the evolution of man that the words written on that 300 year old document were able to advance our country?

The Constitution is not the problem! The problem is corruption and power!

I would really love to know what document promotes freedom and an ability for society to grow that was thought out as well as the US Constitution. Nothing is perfect, and I will not deny the atrocities committed by people in power whom are now dead. However, I will take the words of that old 300 year old document over ANY PLAN that the NWO has planned for us........

You don't even focus on real issues, you focus on conspiracy theories such as the "NWO" and the "Illuminati". Real issues is the giant gap in wealth distribution in the world. The fact that corporations and companies rule our lives. That more money is put into funding high-tech stealth bombers than funding our education system. That people still do not realize the danger of owning a firearm and that extensive background checks should be done when attempting to own one.

The Constitution advanced our country in his beginnings, but it isn't perfect. It was never created to be followed religiously.

Too late... Constitutional America ended when Lincoln destroyed it during the War of Northern Aggression aka the Civil War. If there was anything left then the rest of it was destroyed in 1913 when the Federal Reserve Act was passed.

Originally posted by alienmma

Originally posted by camaro68ss

Originally posted by alienmma
Hopefully very soon.

Sorry, I'd rather not revert back to a time when African-Americans were hung on trees in neighborhoods and colored children were beaten or killed for talking to white women. Segregation wasn't cool either, nor was the discrimination towards women in the world. Let's also not forget imperialism! Driving Native Americans out of reservations and pointless wars (that still go on to this day)... yeah America was so much better than now.

Don't live your life by a document written 300 years ago.

Its funny what little history you know.

what does the Constitution have to do with anything you described up above?

It’s in an amendment in the constitution that no man shall be slaves. So you still what the constitution gone?

You know the founders originally noted slavery as a “stain” on this great nation people like John Jay, great supporter of the Constitution after its creation and an author of The Federalist wrote in 1786, "It is much to be wished that slavery may be abolished.

Patrick Henry, the great Virginian patriot, refused to attend the Convention because he "smelt a rat," was outspoken on the issue, despite his citizenship in a slave state. In 1773, he wrote, "I believe a time will come when an opportunity will be offered to abolish this lamentable evil.

Thomas Jefferson, author of the Declaration of Independence, which, famously, declares that "all men are created equal," wrote, "There must doubtless be an unhappy influence on the manners of our people produced by the existence of slavery among us. The whole commerce between master and slave is a perpetual exercise of the most boisterous passions, the most unremitting despotism on the one part, and degrading submissions on the other. Our children see this, and learn to imitate it; for man is an imitative animal.

www.usconstitution.net...

All Nations have there Stains. Please find me one that Doesn’t.

edit on 21-5-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

edit on 21-5-2013 by camaro68ss because: (no reason given)

The OP is saying that we need to go back to that time, but at that time life wasn't good either.
In the Constitution, native americans and africans are deemed as private property.

It's a well known fact that many of the founding fathers were dubious in their actions and were common hypocrites. Such as the fact that many farmers' crops and farms were taken by the government after the Revolutionary War, after supposedly fighting that against the British.

whats Different today than 300 years ago?

My life is gaged at how many hours/days/weeks/months/years I have on this earth. I work to earn a living, 8 to 10 hours a day. That money I earn is life taken away from me in exchange for currency so I can life a comfortable life. The IRS takes nearly 50% of the money I earn. Essentially, the IRS has taken half my life from me. Isn’t that modern day slavery at the hand of government?

I understand we need to pay taxes, 10-15% TOTAL but 50%???????

reply to post by alienmma

You don't even focus on real issues, you focus on conspiracy theories such as the "NWO" and the "Illuminati". Real issues is the giant gap in wealth distribution in the world. The fact that corporations and companies rule our lives. That more money is put into funding high-tech stealth bombers than funding our education system. That people still do not realize the danger of owning a firearm and that extensive background checks should be done when attempting to own one.

The Constitution advanced our country in his beginnings, but it isn't perfect. It was never created to be followed religiously.

How is it that you try to discredit me by saying I am not focusing on real issues by mention the NWO? BTW, I NEVER mentioned the "Illuminati"! Did Bush not say we need to bring in the New World Order???? All you have to do to find it is go to youtube and type in the search Bush talks about the new world order......................

As I said in my first post, our situation is not because of a 300 year old document, but the corruption and power that has ruined it! The fact that you bring up how Corporations and Wealth rules our live should be enough for you to understand what I was trying to say in my first post!

Originally posted by alienmma

Originally posted by seeker1963
reply to post by alienmma

 

Hopefully very soon.

Sorry, I'd rather not revert back to a time when African-Americans were hung on trees in neighborhoods and colored children were beaten or killed for talking to white women. Segregation wasn't cool either, nor was the discrimination towards women in the world. Let's also not forget imperialism! Driving Native Americans out of reservations and pointless wars (that still go on to this day)... yeah America was so much better than now.

Don't live your life by a document written 300 years ago.

You miss the beauty and freedom that was provided by the wise words of our forebearers! Was it not BECAUSE of the Constitution and the evolution of man that the words written on that 300 year old document were able to advance our country?

The Constitution is not the problem! The problem is corruption and power!

I would really love to know what document promotes freedom and an ability for society to grow that was thought out as well as the US Constitution. Nothing is perfect, and I will not deny the atrocities committed by people in power whom are now dead. However, I will take the words of that old 300 year old document over ANY PLAN that the NWO has planned for us........

You don't even focus on real issues, you focus on conspiracy theories such as the "NWO" and the "Illuminati". Real issues is the giant gap in wealth distribution in the world. The fact that corporations and companies rule our lives. That more money is put into funding high-tech stealth bombers than funding our education system. That people still do not realize the danger of owning a firearm and that extensive background checks should be done when attempting to own one.

The Constitution advanced our country in his beginnings, but it isn't perfect. It was never created to be followed religiously.

you list many problems with this nation. all those problems are backed by the government and inforced by law. To big to fail, "tax loop holes" insider trading, all praticed by those in government postions and not punished for it. These laws make it so they get richer and you get poorer. the end goal is to turn you into a serf. The government is not your friend, and its not here to help you, only its self.

And dont get me started about guns. If you dont own one nor understand how they operate and function, then you have no right to tell me how "dangerous" they are and how i should buy and store them.

If things keep going the way they are, not long at all. Since 1997 they have been trying to amend 22nd amendment

www.govtrack.us.../oursummary

H.J.Res. 15 proposes repealing presidential term limits. Rep. Serrano (D-NY), the resolution's sponsor, has proposed similar legislation in every congressional session since 1997 --- during the tenure of presidents from both parties. None of the resolutions has ever made it to a floor vote.

Even though it has been shot down time after time, with all these scandals could they slip this one by????

The Constitution is under attack, wake up

reply to post by ObservingTheWorld


This question, though its a good one in some ways, implies that Americans HAVE to take sides between liberalism and conservatism. Is constitutional America going to die? Do we really need an all around change?

Its like every controversial argument.

There is middle ground, and there is compromise, if you use your brain a little.

But no one will use their brains, because that would disqualify them from the right to get emotionally riled up by whatever they see on the news or read on ATS.

Like the argument between evolution and Christianity.

Many people discredit the whole possibility and idea of God because of the flaws in Christianity, like some of their explanations of human origins.

Who's to say the Bible isn't simply being misinterpreted? After all, it was translated into English from a language/languages that was nothing LIKE English, and a LOT of years ago. And who's to say that evolution isn't possible ALONG with God being possible?

But everyone wants to take a side, and that's when they screw up.

People will either follow the atheist movement, or the Christian church.

Personally, I follow neither, because, in my experience, both of them can be extremely ignorant, angry, and unforgiving to the other side, making BOTH sides hypocritical.

I believe in God, hell yes. But you won't catch me in a church.

I am spiritual, not religious.

Its the same with liberalism and conservatism.

Do NOT take a side.

Each side has decent points, and each side has flaws.

Like every controversial ideal war.

Are you for or against gay marriage? Are you pro gun or pro gun control? Are you a liberal or a conservative? Do you believe in God, or are you an atheist?

When these touchy subjects are brought to light, people's brains shut down, and they're overcome with emotion, and before they allow themselves to think thoroughly, they retaliate in unnecessary anger, hindering their ability to make any logical decisions whatsoever.

This leads to people taking whatever side is put in front of them, be it liberalism or conservatism.

Trust me, I'm taking psychology.

You've gotta learn to keep yourself in check, and when you hear touchy subjects, calm down, THINK, then after you decide how you feel, THEN let your emotions flow like they're supposed to.

America DOES need change.

And, America DOES need to keep some of its constitutional values.

Problem is,

#1 - Who gets to say which values we keep, and which ones we abandon?

#2 - The idea of "change" is vague, and can easily be tampered with. And with a monstrous government with control over the media, anything can be put forward and called "change for the better," when in fact, it has nothing to do with the good of the people. Hitler once said, "People can be convinced, through the power of the media, to see paradise as hell, or see hell as paradise."

#3 - A lot of agnostics and atheists won't like me saying this, but politics without faith is tyrannical dictatorship, because these men and women in power have nothing to motivate them except humanistic values. Money, power, etc. I am NOT saying we should be a Christian dictatorship, hanging anyone who doesn't agree with the Catholic church like old Rome, but like everything, we need a balance between human rules and spiritual rules, and as of now, spiritual rules have no place in the American politics. That's a recipe for sin and self-destructive disaster.

#4 - You can't get rid of idiots who will always, no matter what, abandon their ability to think for themselves and take a side, and no matter who's in power, there are going to be crooked guys in suits using this "Follow the leader!" mentality that the stupidest sects of humanity love to embrace to their wicked advantage. Where there is humanity, there is good and bad. Where there is good, there will be evil. Yin and tang, etc etc.

#5 - We'd need an entire clean sweep, and an opportunity to start over, speaking for America particularly. And even then, we'd have to be very picky about who we let into power. And EVEN then, we'd have to keep the government from snowballing into the monster that it is today. I think it was George Washington who said "America must maintain government at a small level, and even then, it will be difficult not to succumb to tyranny."

reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

#3 - A lot of agnostics and atheists won't like me saying this, but politics without faith is tyrannical dictatorship, because these men and women in power have nothing to motivate them except humanistic values. Money, power, etc. I am NOT saying we should be a Christian dictatorship, hanging anyone who doesn't agree with the Catholic church like old Rome, but like everything, we need a balance between human rules and spiritual rules, and as of now, spiritual rules have no place in the American politics. That's a recipe for sin and self-destructive disaster.

This country was founded by those seeking freedom from religious persecution. Separating church and state was a fundamental consideration by the founding fathers, and it has worked to a pretty good extent, for over 200 years. I don't think you need faith to be moral, and there are morality considerations in a lot of our legislation (you don't see us going around naked, for example). Also, there is the little matter of WHICH religion to be "official". Christianity has many offshoots, and some are more different than Islam and Judaism (which are actually quite close in beliefs). You can't have a representative republic that represents a majority rule if you include theocracy in the mix, when you have so many different faiths and sects in the US.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by XxNightAngelusxX

 

#3 - A lot of agnostics and atheists won't like me saying this, but politics without faith is tyrannical dictatorship, because these men and women in power have nothing to motivate them except humanistic values. Money, power, etc. I am NOT saying we should be a Christian dictatorship, hanging anyone who doesn't agree with the Catholic church like old Rome, but like everything, we need a balance between human rules and spiritual rules, and as of now, spiritual rules have no place in the American politics. That's a recipe for sin and self-destructive disaster.

This country was founded by those seeking freedom from religious persecution. Separating church and state was a fundamental consideration by the founding fathers, and it has worked to a pretty good extent, for over 200 years. I don't think you need faith to be moral, and there are morality considerations in a lot of our legislation (you don't see us going around naked, for example). Also, there is the little matter of WHICH religion to be "official". Christianity has many offshoots, and some are more different than Islam and Judaism (which are actually quite close in beliefs). You can't have a representative republic that represents a majority rule if you include theocracy in the mix, when you have so many different faiths and sects in the US.

Yeah... that's why I posted it as one of the problems. I didn't mean for the entire system to be based upon religion, because that, like any huge establishment, would corrupt in no time flat. But without some kind of spiritual guidance, we only have humanistic views to base our morality on, and its a lot easier to "do the wrong thing" in that scenario. The only way to really solve this problem is if the politicians individually chose to go spiritual, which isn't something any of us can do anything about.

I know its a serious gray area to try to determine how moral one can be without spiritual guidance, but that's just the way I personally see it. Most atheists I know are much more acidic and miserable than believers. Don't get me wrong, I know a lot of Bible thumpers too, and they get on my nerves... but...

Just my 2 cents.