The Latest Pro-Choice Hypocrisy

I think this guy should be charged with assault of some kind. Seriously? Tricking your gf into a chemical abortion?? Its wrong on so many levels. If he didnt want kids - Get a vasectomy or wrap it up. Hey, even abstinence works for some people

Actually quite angry this boy would feel like its okay to interfere with someone else's body

Originally posted by Maslo
Yep, I am pro-choice but this is ridiculous. Murder or not, defined by the feelings of the mother.. how stupid is that?

The guy is no saint, but he is certainly no murderer.

By the way, dont try to pin this on pro-choicers. "Unborn victims of violence act" was pushed by pro-life groups.

I think it's murder no matter who does it! I'm the only one who is consistent here!

How is it not murder when a woman does it? If a woman can legally get an abortion then this guy should NOT face a murder charge (some other charge - YES, but not murder). We can't have this double standard.

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
I think this guy should be charged with assault of some kind. Seriously? Tricking your gf into a chemical abortion?? Its wrong on so many levels. If he didnt want kids - Get a vasectomy or wrap it up. Hey, even abstinence works for some people

Actually quite angry this boy would feel like its okay to interfere with someone else's body

His actions were deplorable but if a woman can’t be charged with MURDER for aborting a baby then a man shouldn’t be charged with MURDER for it either.

reply to post by seabag


State laws do not consider it as a murder Seabag. Your article doesn't go into it but the one I read yesterday does. I am going to go and try to find it.

My understanding is that if the state prosecutes him, they cannot charge him with murder. However, under Federal law and in a commission of a crime, (which is what this idiot did) that if a fetus is killed do to that crime, THEN under Federal Law the perp CAN be charged with murder......

Here it is.............

John Andrew Welden was indicted Tuesday by a federal grand jury on charges of product tampering and first-degree murder. He faces up to life in prison if convicted on the murder charge. In state court, a 6-week-old fetus wouldn’t be considered viable, but in federal court, it’s a different matter.

The Unborn Victims of Violence of 2004 defines an “unborn child” as a “member of the species homo sapiens, at any stage of development, who is carried in the womb.” If an unborn child is killed during a federal crime — like, say, product tampering — it’s considered murder.

Source

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by Maslo
Yep, I am pro-choice but this is ridiculous. Murder or not, defined by the feelings of the mother.. how stupid is that?

The guy is no saint, but he is certainly no murderer.

By the way, dont try to pin this on pro-choicers. "Unborn victims of violence act" was pushed by pro-life groups.

I think it's murder no matter who does it! I'm the only one who is consistent here!

How is it not murder when a woman does it? If a woman can legally get an abortion then this guy should NOT face a murder charge (some other charge - YES, but not murder). We can't have this double standard.

Aren't you a former Marine or Navy? What about the murders you committed, either directly or indirectly? Why are those justified but aborting a fetus is not? Why is it ok to bomb a hospital full of brown people but not ok to abort a fetus? Let's see how consistent you really are.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by Maslo
Yep, I am pro-choice but this is ridiculous. Murder or not, defined by the feelings of the mother.. how stupid is that?

The guy is no saint, but he is certainly no murderer.

By the way, dont try to pin this on pro-choicers. "Unborn victims of violence act" was pushed by pro-life groups.

I think it's murder no matter who does it! I'm the only one who is consistent here!

How is it not murder when a woman does it? If a woman can legally get an abortion then this guy should NOT face a murder charge (some other charge - YES, but not murder). We can't have this double standard.

Yes my love, women know all about double standards

Makes a nice change that the double standard isnt against women on this one.

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by SearchLightsInc
I think this guy should be charged with assault of some kind. Seriously? Tricking your gf into a chemical abortion?? Its wrong on so many levels. If he didnt want kids - Get a vasectomy or wrap it up. Hey, even abstinence works for some people

Actually quite angry this boy would feel like its okay to interfere with someone else's body

His actions were deplorable but if a woman can’t be charged with MURDER for aborting a baby then a man shouldn’t be charged with MURDER for it either.

Im not saying he should be charged for murder, but we all know he's done something seriously wrong.

reply to post by TinkerHaus

Do you have any evidence the mother of the unborn fetus or the prosecuting attorneys are "pro choice? Who exactly is being hypocritical here and what evidence do you have of their involvement in this case? What do YOU think the correct charges should be?

Our laws are hypocritical…the people who charged this man with murder are hypocritical. You can’t say you have a moral objection to murder in one case and not all cases. Murder is murder.

Are you for or against abortion?

What do you think?

Are you pro choice? Do you believe this man should face murder charges? If so, how can you justify the double standard?

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by TinkerHaus

 

Do you have any evidence the mother of the unborn fetus or the prosecuting attorneys are "pro choice? Who exactly is being hypocritical here and what evidence do you have of their involvement in this case? What do YOU think the correct charges should be?

Our laws are hypocritical…the people who charged this man with murder are hypocritical. You can’t say you have a moral objection to murder in one case and not all cases. Murder is murder.

Are you for or against abortion?

What do you think?

Are you pro choice? Do you believe this man should face murder charges? If so, how can you justify the double standard?

This guy robbed this woman of something she obviously wanted - and as I said, my personal opinion on abortion is that it's not.. ok. That being said, I cannot tell a woman what she can or cannot do with her body. A fetus is literally living off of it's host.

I am pro choice, but only because I don't believe it's my right to tell people how they should live. I would never make the choice, if it was mine to make, to have an abortion, except under extraordinary circumstances. A better choice than abortion is personally responsibility, and not getting pregnant in the first place. But look at society today.. I'm surprised we don't have a teenage pregnancy epidemic right now. And in many cases aborting a fetus is probably saving it from a life of poverty and crime.. So I'm torn on the subject.

I think he's facing a murder charge because what he did is so heinous that there's not a more fitting charge on the books. Whatever the charge, this guy should sit and rot for a long time.

Your logic is flawed, OP, and I will help you out.

I don't like the "Pro-Life"/"Pro-Choice" labels, because I think they are meaningless in a grander scheme.

I am for the availability for terminating pregnancies, however, so if you want to label me "Pro-Choice", then that is on you.

What this man did is wrong. Period. He invaded another person's body and administered a drug. I have to believe that we both agree to this.

Where you and I are going to differ is on whether or not it was murder, because.. it wasn't.

You cannot make blanket statements like, "The Pro-Choice Crowd thinks this!" because it is disingenuous.

Look at this... These doctors are nothing more than mob style "hitmen".. Someone pays them money to kill another human being and sometimes in the worst possible way.

Second 'house of horrors' abortion clinic where doctor 'twisted heads off fetus' necks with his bare hands' is investigated in Texas

Link

Come one you so called "pro choice" people, justify this crap for me.

Isn't it an unauthorised medical procedure versus an authorised procedure where the legal distinction lies. Whilst the abortion procedure is legal it is sanctioned when carried out by qualified medical practitioners. The procedure was not sanctioned nor carried out by a qualified practitioner. Simple.

As other posters have commented linking this to the pro-choice movement was cynical, unwarranted and very misleading. Your ideological bias creating a yellow journalism, as evinced by the capitalising of murder when posting about this incident, typical of the more hysterical evangelists.

reply to post by butcherguy

If women who choose to abort are not committing murder, then the man is guilty of 'tricking' her into aborting a 'nonviable tissue mass', IOW, he helped her get rid of a tumor.

Come on now!

Abortion Truth: If It’s Not a Baby Then You’re Not Pregnant

preg·nant (prgnnt) adj. Carrying developing offspring within the body.

medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com...

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee

What this man did is wrong. Period. He invaded another person's body and administered a drug. I have to believe that we both agree to this.

Agreed!

Where you and I are going to differ is on whether or not it was murder, because.. it wasn't.

It’s murder whether it was him doing it or her doing it IMO.

You cannot make blanket statements like, "The Pro-Choice Crowd thinks this!" because it is disingenuous.

Sure I can!

reply to post by Berzerked


You are asking someone to justify abhorrent behaviors, good luck.

That would be like me asking my Catholic grandmother to justify people killing in God's name.

reply to post by seabag


So, if it is murder, in your eyes, why are you so upset?

Originally posted by seabag

Originally posted by Nevertheless
reply to post by seabag

 

The fetus is physically part of her, not him.
Clearly you can see that for yourself?

So then say this for me - It's ok for a woman to murder a baby because it's her choice.

How is it muder if it's not a life?

You said it was hypocrisy because HE wasn't allowed to end the life of a fetus that wasn't physically attached to him.

Now you are talking about the dilemma with abortions.
No one likes them one bit. No one thinks it's a good way not to have children.
But because it's ultimately a part of the carrier, some consideration needs to be taken towards the right to her, her will, body, and the risks.

And at the end of the day, she's the one who has that in her conscience, not you.

reply to post by seeker1963


The prosecutor is seeking a murder charge.

Assistant U.S. Attorney W. Stephen Muldrow told U.S. Magistrate Anthony Porcelli during a hearing Wednesday the case was "one of the most shocking and premeditated cases I've seen."

OP Source

I know the law is written this way but how can it only be considered a murder if it’s during the commission of a crime? That is so ridiculous IMO. I’ve heard about case where a guy is charged with 2 counts of murder for killing a pregnant wife or girl friend and I don’t have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is the choice of legalized MURDER we allow women.

I don’t like double standards and the pro-choice crowd can’t have their cake and eat it, too.

Originally posted by seabag
reply to post by seeker1963

 

The prosecutor is seeking a murder charge.

Assistant U.S. Attorney W. Stephen Muldrow told U.S. Magistrate Anthony Porcelli during a hearing Wednesday the case was "one of the most shocking and premeditated cases I've seen."

OP Source

I know the law is written this way but how can it only be considered a murder if it’s during the commission of a crime? That is so ridiculous IMO. I’ve heard about case where a guy is charged with 2 counts of murder for killing a pregnant wife or girl friend and I don’t have a problem with it. What I have a problem with is the choice of legalized MURDER we allow women.

I don’t like double standards and the pro-choice crowd can’t have their cake and eat it, too.

Apparently they can, considering the laws on the books.

So wait...if a woman makes a choice to abort the baby, its yay pro choice, but a baby is aborted against the will of the woman, it's murder?

I mean I'm not defending the guy. I think what he did is terrible and he should be convicted. But I do see the point with the OP.