free energy? possible? expert pls come in

sorry for my noobie ness. its been a while i had been thinking, suppose you get a 9v rechargable battery and use it to power a mini generator that produce 12 v. then you use the output to charge back the 9v..and you still have excess of 3v left..

would the generator continue to run infinitely? and the excess 3v would be considered free energy and can be use infinitely?

electrical energy does not work like that.

I would try to explain but you should probably just read this first.

science.howstuffworks.com...

put simply, imagine water is like energy, a volt would be a way to describe how fast the water comes out of the end of a pipe, like a volt describes how much energy comes out of the wire.

Originally posted by Biigs
electrical energy does not work like that.

I would try to explain but you should probably just read this first.

science.howstuffworks.com...

Your link simply states things about basic electricity, but does not disprove directly the OP's suggestion. I think using amperes instead of volts would be a better way to look at the OP's suggestion. Ampere is the amount of electron charges in one second, which is more relevant to this topic here.

reply to post by korgmeister


OP, I think this may maybe work. I'm in electricity myself and I can wire a thing or two, and this made me really think. It may be possible... but voltage is not how many energy per second. To make your point more solid, your battery should use n number of amperes, not volt, to turn the gen, which would generate n+1 ampere minimum to recharge the battery and have a minimum over which could be used. Ampere is the amount of energy in one second, and time is very relevant here.

another analogy.... water = energy, tap = volts, water pressure = amps

If i turn a tap on 3rd of the way, i get 3rd as much water out compared to fully open which as much comes out as fast as possible, being the waters pressure.

Once that water is out, how open the tap was at the time the water was moved, makes no difference the total water when it was inside the tap to when it is out side.

Originally posted by korgmeister
suppose you get a 9v rechargable battery and use it to power a mini generator that produce 12 v. then you use the output to charge back the 9v..and you still have excess of 3v left..

How much power does the motor to run the generator use to produce the 12v?

would the generator continue to run infinitely?

No, it would run until the battery went flat.

and the excess 3v would be considered free energy and can be use infinitely?

No, you could use it until the battery went flat.

Try flying by yourself up by your shoelaces... same thing

reply to post by korgmeister


You will produce less usable energy than you use to produce it.
Also, you should read about the relationship between voltage and current.

Originally posted by korgmeister
sorry for my noobie ness. its been a while i had been thinking, suppose you get a 9v rechargable battery and use it to power a mini generator that produce 12 v. then you use the output to charge back the 9v..and you still have excess of 3v left..

would the generator continue to run infinitely? and the excess 3v would be considered free energy and can be use infinitely?

edit on 17-5-2013 by korgmeister because: typo

Watts is the measurement of power, volts x amps = watts. 1 watt = one joule of energy per second. In order to get more watts out, energy needs to be cohered from an outside source such as heat. But there are a lot more exotic sources of energy which are not even recognized yet that we can tap into. Proving these energy sources even exist is a milestone in and of itself, let alone creating a device to convert this energy to electricity.

Originally posted by korgmeister
sorry for my noobie ness. its been a while i had been thinking, suppose you get a 9v rechargable battery and use it to power a mini generator that produce 12 v. then you use the output to charge back the 9v..and you still have excess of 3v left..

would the generator continue to run infinitely? and the excess 3v would be considered free energy and can be use infinitely?

edit on 17-5-2013 by korgmeister because: typo

How you power 12 V generator with only 9 V? Electricity doesn't work like that!

You misunderstand how electricity works. Even if it did work you'd be losing energy through heat.

There's no such thing as free energy, it has to come from somewhere.

reply to post by swanne


How could you be "in electricity" and possibly think this could work? It violates the laws of the Universe for starters.

Originally posted by SpearMint
reply to post by swanne

 

How could you be "in electricity" and possibly think this could work? It violates the laws of the Universe for starters.

edit on 17-5-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

yeap, forgetting some pretty basic rules and combining that with a lack of grasp on what units of measurement actually mean.

Storing electrical energy is hard work, because it likes to escape in any form it can and it always goes for the easiest (who wouldnt!)

Simply pushing electricity down a wire means, especially in long wires, it will 'leak' out in forms like heat. You never get exactly what you put in, back out. So as close as you can get to over unity, you simply cannot because you always lose some energy when you move the energy or try and store it.

Originally posted by SpearMint
reply to post by swanne

 

How could you be "in electricity" and possibly think this could work? It violates the laws of the Universe for starters.

edit on 17-5-2013 by SpearMint because: (no reason given)

No. Because the OP's electricity generator doesn't violate any laws - electricity is derived from the variating magnetic field in the generator, which moves the electron in the coil. Thus, it's isn't "free", neither is it mechanical perpetual movement, because your battery does all the work.

The trick is to provide electricity for that battery.

I am currently working in merging both the gen and motor coils inside the same magnetic field, but make the gen coil slightly bigger than the motor, so that the gen coil emits higher amperage than the motor coil needs.

Originally posted by Biigs
Simply pushing electricity down a wire means, especially in long wires, it will 'leak' out in forms like heat. You never get exactly what you put in, back out.

Yes. But there are ways to cheat that system by accelerating the generator so it goes let's say 2 times faster than the motor, thus the output of the gen actually is always above the motor's need, and compensate by far the joule effect.

As long as you got something to turn the gen, you can get electricity. For instance water flow, or water steam is usually used to turn big gen. But the idea here is to use small input, accelerate the ratio gen/motor so the gen spins faster than the motor and thus the input is compensated by larger input, which is not free - the motor and accelerating gear does the work.

The main problem is to store that energy. Capacitors could do the trick to temporarily store the gen's output so then the motor can then use it. And you'd have to put a circuit to avoid frying that cap. And another circuit to actually profit from the excess of electricity before it's sent back to the feedback loop. All this circuit is extra resistance, which complicates a bit the thing. Plus, even small capacitors have a bit of resistance. Some big capacitors leak their energy in the form of X-rays. And hight-voltage caps can be dangerous because of their charge. You should be careful not to touch these.

Volts and amps are irrelevant. Power is measured in watts. One watt = one volt pushing one amp.

The motor will draw a certain amount of power expressed in wattage. If it draws 18 watts from a 9 volt battery, it is drawing 2 amps to get that much power. Those 18 watts are then transferred into mechanical energy driving a generator, which produces 12 volts at 1 1/2 amps... still 18 watts. So you are gaining 3 volts, but losing 1/2 amp. You still have 18 watts.

That's ideal... in reality, you lose some energy to heat in the motor, in the generator, and in the bearings holding the shaft connecting them. You also lose energy as heat in charging the battery. So the device will start and slowly slow down until it stops. Feel free to try it.

As for the water analogy: voltage is pressure, amperage is amount of water, and wattage is how much power the water has.

TheRedneck

Forget the electricity part of it.

You cannot get something for nothing. Period!

You can dream and skeem all you want, but it's still impossible.

When I was back in high school I asked:
Why can't you have an electric car with two banks of batteries.
Run the motor and a generatior on bank 1 while driving and charging bank 2.

The answer destroyed all my dreams of being someone important in the world. I learned I'm doomed to just another drone in the colony.

The thing with free energy / renewable energy is, that the power input needed to run and sustain the energy output needs to be higher than that of what is being input. But with a 9v battery n generator making 12v, you are using a battery in the 1st place that needs power, therefor it needs a jumpstart and outside power source still and that we actually already have self sustaining systems that require little more or equal power to sustain.

But what we are looking for is a device that uses it's natural or manmade abilities / characteristics to produce a method of power generation that is greater than that power input needed to start / sustain.

In my honest opinion, we will have Infinite power sources from Electromagnetics and Recycling abilities. I'm working on some as we speak, and am sure from my past experiences if I've thought it, couple thousand others have and are working on it too, give us a decade or two!

I have even thought of generators that use Solar, metabolic and gravity to produce electricity. Multistructured Power systems

The only way that this would work is if somehow the process took energy out of the environment or from the earth's magnetic field. You can get a positive energy gain many ways. You don't have to be limited by what is already assumed to be known. All the greatest inventors looked at the unknown and with thought and experimentation created something that was thought not to exist. They don't teach us to have an open mind in school, they teach us to look at what others have created. This is incorrect conditioning. I believe this is purposely done this way to keep us suppressed and not thinking....Creating consumers that have to work all their lives to keep the economy rolling.

Originally posted by korgmeister
sorry for my noobie ness. its been a while i had been thinking, suppose you get a 9v rechargable battery and use it to power a mini generator that produce 12 v. then you use the output to charge back the 9v..and you still have excess of 3v left..

would the generator continue to run infinitely? and the excess 3v would be considered free energy and can be use infinitely?

edit on 17-5-2013 by korgmeister because: typo

The use of a 9 volt battery will not produce 12 volts on a 12 volt generator, it will max out at 9 volts because the magnetic flux is proportional to the induced magnetic flux of the coils in the generator. call it the resistance factor. To make 12 volts of electricity you would need a power source equivalent to the generator for that purpose.

Now, if you could diminish or cancel out the resistance factor, then you could possibly produce more energy than you would consume. But, the laws of physics being what they are it's unlikely to be done.