Elisa Lam's autopsy report to be announced this week: Police

reply to post by TruthLover557

TruthLover557

Other than this issue, I would just like to know the other pertinent facts of the case that the investigators are withholding, such as: Did she or did she not have clothes on her body when she was found? Is there any record whatsoever of someone seeing her with anyone else at all and what on earth did her phone records indicate? Did she or her parents have any traceable knowledge of the Cecil Hotel and the area of skid row prior to her stay, or did she perhaps look for the first hotel she could find to get off the street after she got off a bus in skid row? Really, truly, what was the deal with the freaking elevator? Did it normally operate in such erratic fashion or not? All efforts made so far by anyone who knows or could know answers to any of these glaring questions have proven to be unsuccessful.

These are definitely questions I have as well, compounded by the possibility of tampered security footage (recorded in the most prehistoric resolution, I might add).
Most hotels do not simply have a camera inside the elevator, and nowhere else. Where is the lobby footage? The hallway footage? I guess a great starting point would be to go to the Hotel Cecil itself and check out how many cameras are actually operating.

Context is another thing missing from this case. What exactly was Elisa doing in that part of town? Where are her friends/relatives? Was she in contact with anyone while in that area? Did she notify any of her friends that she was heading off? Was she an actual customer of the hotel i.e. staying the night there? If so, surely the police would have investigated her room and looked for any clues as to her intentions.

In regards to the erratic behaviour of the elevator, it almost seems like the elevator itself was jammed or prevented from closing and changing floors remotely (either by the lobby, or some sort of emergency stop was applied to it). Seeing as we don't have footage from the outside of the elevator in the hall, we also cannot rule out the possibility of a suspect standing outside the elevator pressing a button to stop it from moving. There are certain scenes in the video where Elisa does seem to be pleading or reasoning with someone outside the elevator - an angle we cannot see.

The more time passes, the more I feel these questions are getting further away from being answered.

reply to post by dfoxxx


I can answer a few of your questions. Elisa was a guest who stayed overnight in the hotel. Her friends and relatives were in Canada, where she also lived. Elisa arrived in LA as a tourist on January 26 and planned to later travel to Santa Cruz by bus. She spoke by phone to her parents every day (5 days) she was in LA until she disappeared.

Most hotels do not simply have a camera inside the elevator, and nowhere else. Where is the lobby footage? The hallway footage? I guess a great starting point would be to go to the Hotel Cecil itself and check out how many cameras are actually operating.

The official investigators in this case obtained every bit of security footage taken at that hotel. If that footage showed the hallways, lobby, etc. they looked at it. They alone had the authority and option to release the security footage obtained as evidence in their investigation and they alone chose to release only the footage we saw. These investigators have shown absolutely no interest in explaining any portion of their investigation to the public. So if you had an opportunity to ask them what was depicted in other footage throughout the hotel, they would without a doubt say, "We will make no comments as this investigation is ongoing." They say this all the time.

I assure you the police have answers to all of our questions, but for reasons completely unknown to us, they will not provide these answers. I'd consider myself to be pretty well-read when it comes to material that details criminal investigations and I used to be a newspaper reporter who covered all aspects of city and county law-enforcement activities. While I am no expert, I can say confidently that the law-enforcement agency in charge of this investigation has veered completely off the path of normal procedure in regard to its interaction with the public.

reply to post by TruthLover557

I assure you the police have answers to all of our questions, but for reasons completely unknown to us, they will not provide these answers. I'd consider myself to be pretty well-read when it comes to material that details criminal investigations and I used to be a newspaper reporter who covered all aspects of city and county law-enforcement activities. While I am no expert, I can say confidently that the law-enforcement agency in charge of this investigation has veered completely off the path of normal procedure in regard to its interaction with the public.

I agree with you, but it just raises more hairy questions. What would be the reason for police and investigators to act so suspiciously, dodging the finer details?

Unfortunately, all I can possibly think of is some sort of order from the higher ups to no longer divulge any details because it would possibly incriminate or expose something bigger than her death.

i saw the vid of her in the lift.

creepy as hell.

TruthLover557
reply to post by Mikeultra

 

Sorry Mikeultra, but I just don't follow your thinking on this. If you've read my previous posts in this thread, I'm way over the TB discussion as it relates to the Elisa Lam case. Perhaps there are others here who still want to talk about that, but I definitely do not. Elisa Lam lived her life and lost her life well before February 17, 2013, so what on earth does this Facebook page called Lam Elisa have to do with her?!

In addition, if you click on "The Cecil Secret Project" within your posted vimeo videos, you will find a woman named Cecil Secret saying, "The idea of this art project is to create little short films for no better reason but to make short little films I can upload with my phone." I can't tell for sure but this sort of stuff makes it look like you're purposefully trying to derail this thread by posting a bunch of nonsense. The name of the IT guy in the office where I work is Cecil. But I don't suspect whatever he's doing in his freetime online is in any way related to the Cecil Hotel Water tank in which Elisa Lam's dead body was found. Get my drift?

So Elisa Lam posted an interesting science news article about a company working on invisibility cloaks? What could that possibly have to do with her death. Say I posted an article on my Twitter page about the use of the new Bitcoins, then passed away suddenly. Would you then claim the creator of Bitcoins must have been behind my death some how? I mean what you're doing here is no different in my opinion.

Now consider how outnumbered the U.S. and South Korean forces are there, and think about this invisibility technology. Read the below excerpt from the Huffington Post Canada article mentioning that the technology can be also be applied to vehicles including tanks. If this technology is for real, think of the advantage that would give to forces who are greatly out-numbered.

Whatever you're getting at with this statement is so far off topic I'm really at a loss for words...

I had to come back and respond to this post of yours. You told me that the "The Cecil Secret Project" Vimeo videos that were posted by a woman claiming to be named Cecil Secret are nothing to consider and not related to the Elisa Lam case. So I took a further look into it. I don't think there's a woman really named Cecil Secret. I told you that I found links for those videos on the Lam Elisa Facebook page that was only up for one day, February 17, 2013. If you'll take the time and look at the one follower of Cecil Secret on "her" Vimeo page, you will find it is "Ashes Wednesday", an "artist" living in Los Angeles who also happens to have a most disturbing video titled "Suspension Under A Bridge". That is filmed under the same bridge as the other video. Take a real close look at these people and what they are doing. Normal people? I think you should reconsider your very quick dismissal of them as irrelevant to this case. You think whoever created the Lam Elisa Facebook page just chose that name out of thin air? WARNING VIDEO IS DISTURBING!
vimeo.com...
Here is a screen capture showing "Cecil Secret" Vimeo page with follower "Ashes Wednesday" circled in red.

reply to post by Mikeultra


I'm keeping an open mind, but unfortunately, I fail to see the correlation between the person's account and video and Elisa Lam...

The video shows people doing some BDSM/pain threshold stuff, but that is not really "disturbing" - in fact, a few of my friends practice this stuff and they're regular people.

Other than the name of the account "Cecil Secret", I don't find any relevance to the Elisa Lam case.

Perhaps you could elaborate on WHY this connection you made is noteworthy?

reply to post by Mikeultra

I had to come back and respond to this post of yours. You told me that the "The Cecil Secret Project" Vimeo videos that were posted by a woman claiming to be named Cecil Secret are nothing to consider and not related to the Elisa Lam case. So I took a further look into it. I don't think there's a woman really named Cecil Secret. I told you that I found links for those videos on the Lam Elisa Facebook page that was only up for one day, February 17, 2013. If you'll take the time and look at the one follower of Cecil Secret on "her" Vimeo page, you will find it is "Ashes Wednesday", an "artist" living in Los Angeles who also happens to have a most disturbing video titled "Suspension Under A Bridge". That is filmed under the same bridge as the other video. Take a real close look at these people and what they are doing. Normal people? I think you should reconsider your very quick dismissal of them as irrelevant to this case. You think whoever created the Lam Elisa Facebook page just chose that name out of thin air? WARNING VIDEO IS DISTURBING!

I watched every video created by Cecil Secret and took a real close look as you suggested. I am still of the opinion that whatever they are doing is not related to the case. I also agree with dfoxxx in that, while disturbing to some viewers, there is a culture of people who enjoy bdsm/pain threshold experiments, and the Cecil Secret vimeo user is among them.

The creator of the Lam Elisa Facebook page didn't pull the name out of thin air. Lam's name was all over the news at that time because of the massive search for her. If that Facebook page and Cecil Secret page were connected as you allege, perhaps it's because the facebook profile was created by Cecil Secret, who lives in LA and would have been well aware of the ongoing search.

Just heard about this and saw the video. Really wasn't much online when I googled it.
Very creepy. The video made the hairs stand on end.
Ruled as a suicide?? Bull.
I looked it up here hoping to find out more on the story... Guess not.
There's an explanation for everything except how she got into the water tank. That's drinking water, there's no way that was easy to get into plus close the lid behind her....
*shudders*

a reply to: SalientSkivvy

Just heard about this and saw the video. Really wasn't much online when I googled it.
Very creepy. The video made the hairs stand on end.
Ruled as a suicide?? Bull.
I looked it up here hoping to find out more on the story... Guess not.
There's an explanation for everything except how she got into the water tank. That's drinking water, there's no way that was easy to get into plus close the lid behind her....
*shudders*

Everything that has been released by authorities or made known to the public about this case is discussed here on ATS. There are two other threads about the case:
Elisa Lam Death Accidental: LA Coronor
Parents sue over daughter found dead in Cecil Hotel water tank

If memory serves me right, the trap door covering the hole on top of the water tank was unlocked and the hole was big enough for Elisa to fit through.

Her death was NOT ruled a suicide. It was ruled an accidental drowning.

This happened almost two years ago. The case is closed, so the investigation is over. There is no new news and there hasn't been for some time. Yet, speculation, often involving quite a bit of misinformation, remains ongoing and increasing steadily on the internet.

a reply to: TruthLover557

Ha! No suspicious clues?!

That girl was in fear of her life. I bet she was a whistle blower that confided in the wrong person.

The actions seen in that video of her on the elevator are not those of normal behavior and I doubt she went over 1,000 miles alone for no reason.

This whole case smells so fishy that I went down to my local fish section at the store for comparison

I don't think it was an accident.
Again that video shows something going on.
Death by skinny dipping in a hotel water tank, are you for real? She looks confused and scared.

May be of some interest ?

This is her blog where she talks about her on going depression and her inability to control her emotions.

Her being bi polar or worse wouldn't surprise me after looking at some of the posts.

etherfields.blogspot.hk...

Hello All! I was actually able to obtain Elisa's second autopsy and toxicology reports right after the COD was reported. I have them available, but only provide them privately out of respect for the family/law enforcement.

I will answer many questions you all had about the report.

Clothing
Elisa was unclothed when she was found. Her clothing, a wristwatch, her hotel room key, and her flip flops were found at the bottom of the cistern.

samples collected from body/hair
There were tiny sand like white unidentified particulates found on her clothes and the evidence mat her clothes were on. I believe the same particulates were found in her hair.

A rape kit and fingernail kit was ordered. There is no mention of the results that would indicate the rape kit was processed.

Samples of her vaginal canal were taken and saved. There was no proof of vaginal trauma.

Hair;pubic hair samples.

Dissected portions of her throat.


state of the remains
When found she was floating facedown with limbs and head waterlogged. She had skin slippage on her shoulder as well as portions of her legs, buttocks, forearms, and scalp. This is typically due to being in water for an extended period of time. One of her eyes/sockets was bloated. she had an anal prolapse noted in the report, which is odd but may be a result of decomposition/gases building up and pushing the rectum outward. There was adiopocre beginning as evident with the skin.

Her lungs seemed in rather good shape and lacked trauma you would expect when a person drowns. There was no note of excess amounts of water or mucous in her lungs.

The sclera of her eyes and were white possibly indicating that her heart rate was low to non existent when she drowned or she was in a state of CNS depression. There was no mention of laryngital trauma, which typically happens when a person drowns while alive (the throat spasms and causes trauma as the drowning victim struggles to get air). Laryngital trauma and redness of the sclera in the eyes also indicate strangulation, so the unremarkable state of both her eyes and throat indicates she wasn't strangled.

However the white scleras and larynx void of trauma may indicate Elisa was unconscious by the time she drowned and:
either she willingly held her breath and passed out or due to the cold temps was able to pass out in the water (lost consciousness) before drowning
or
she was put in the cistern after she had lost consciousness/died.

There is no evidence of drugs in her system to support that she drugged herself or was drugged and then lost consciousness bc of the drug and drowned in the cistern. However, a red syrupy substance was found in Elisa's stomach that the coroner could not determine the contents of (didn't mention testing it either). There is a date rape drug that is red and syrupy that I must look up to remember the name of - now if Elisa was given that date rape concoction and died before it even fully metabolized, someone may have put her in that cistern. I will follow this with the toxicology findings.

toxicology report
Elisa's report is somewhat limited because there was a limited blood sample available. With what they did have, there was bupropion and ibuprofen in her system as well as lamotrigine and venlafaxine. Dexedrine (ADD med), quetipine, sinutab, welbutrine, and Advil were found in her belongings along with the aforementioned drugs found in her system. She had prescriptions for all except the Dexedrine. There were 2 loose Dexedrine pills. All prescriptions from the same doctor. Investigators confirmed her bipolar disorder through Elisa's sister who confirmed she suffered from it. That's ALOT of meds, no judgement.

If anything her death should have been ruled undetermined. I wonder if taking the Dexedrine (an upper) and possibly not taking some of her other meds caused an adverse effect. Then I wonder if someone made her take a "shot" that was drugged and things went downhill from there. There are many possibilities given the stories about the shady hotel security/staff to the history of suicides at the Cecil. I simply wish I had a police report and then maybe I could make more sense of it all.

Whatever the case, the 23 page report had much more info than I posted here - I don't have time to post it all right now.
Always look for the truth.

a reply to: Noonereallygetsit

this case is bizarre and frightening. something like this could happen to anyone at any time.

Also I must add that the autopsy report was extremely in depth and I can tell the medical examiner took considerable time/care. Sometimes cases can't be solved completely due to limited evidence - we don't have what we need to solve it completely and know exactly what happened. This may be the tragic case with Elisa. The effort was there, but there was nothing concrete to point to a COD that was 100% proven.

It really is bizarre and scary. If you read the yelp reviews about the Cecil in the month or two before Elisa was tragically found deceased - well there are some questionable reviews about the security being very abusive there (I noted in particular that an Asian female around Elisa's age experienced a horror story with the security only a month prior to Elisa disappearing)

Also not to mention that registered sex offenders lived in the Cecil and across the street from it at the Standard hotel and the place Is on Skid Row practically...

a reply to: subfab

What I think may have happened if Elisa had a nervous breakdown or accidentally fell into the cistern hole when jumping on it - it would be very tragic when taking her autopsy report into account. If Elisa truly had died before drowning it would have most likely been from hypothermia while stuck in the cistern for 3 weeks. The absense of trauma you typically associate with drowning and the absense of a high amount of drugs that would induce CNS depression indicate that she died from exposure while stuck inside the cistern, not from drowning. It was very cold the end of January and beginning of February that year in LA. I remember walking to work in a parka (granted it was 4 am) and thinking it was crazy cold for Southern CA.

If not died of exposure, then it was foul play. either someone put her in there while she was alive to hide her and left her to die or she was already unconscious/dead before they put her in (most likely from a date rape drug that had adverse effects if the contents in her stomach were from a date rape shot/drink).

I just watched the video again for the first time since this incident happened.

Some things that stand out when you really pick it apart:

-The first time she walks into the elevator, her behavior seems completely normal.
-She apparently isn't wearing her glasses because she has to get very close to read the numbers on the buttons.
-She presses 4 numbers... why?
-She scoots to the rear corner like she is expecting other people to join her in the elevator. How many people press into the back corner of an elevator when they're by themselves?
-She playfully steps forward, peeks her head out of the door, looks both ways and quickly pulls back in. This seems playful, not fearful.
-She then scoots to a spot where someone wouldn't see her if they walked by the open door... still playful.
-Around 1:04, she stands at the door like she's listening for someone, then does a quick little hop to apparently surprise someone. At this point, she seems to have her arms up on or behind her head because we can see a glimpse of her right elbow at head level.

-At 1:27, it gets weird. She walks into the elevator with her hands in front of her like she can't see and then presses the buttons for all floors... at least twice. It's almost like she can't see the buttons so she's pressing them repeatedly to make sure she hasn't missed one. Did she reach up and do something to her own eyes? Was she trying to block someone from spraying something on her? What happened around this point that suddenly changed her behavior from seemingly sober/playful to moving her arms around in a very non-sober manner? Could the "unidentified white particulate" found by the coroner be some sort of intoxicating agent that she was sprayed with? The elbow motion could also indicate that she drank something. Reach up with your right arm as though you're taking a shot and you'll see what I mean.


Now let's analyze why someone would press all the elevator buttons. I can think of one reason: to keep someone from accessing the elevator. If the elevator has to visit every floor, it would take a very long time for it to make the whole trip and come back to the original floor. I've seen information stating that she was on the 14th floor when the video starts, so it seems like she might have been trying to keep someone on the same floor or a lower floor from accessing the elevator.

The most substantial part of the story and the hardest to interpret is how she ended up in the cistern without her clothing and with no signs of trauma. There are multiple ways this COULD happen but every explanation falls apart with a little logic:
1) She was suicidal. Ok, then why did she take off her clothing and watch ahead of time? Why didn't she just jump off of the roof?
2) She was murdered and the body was stashed. Ok, why did the killer remove her clothing and watch before hiding the body only to leave those items under the cistern... unless, of course, the killer was trying to make it look like Elisa crawled in on purpose. How did the killer get her dead body into a spot that difficult without leaving any signs of trauma?
3) She was playing hide and go seek games with a sex-interest and they decided to skinny dipping in the cistern for thrills. Ok, but it was winter. The low that day was 46 degrees. (yes I looked it up)
4) She was having a psychotic episode and didn't know what she was doing. Ok, but she had no history of psychotic episodes and she had the presence of mind to remove her clothing AND watch before gaining access to the cistern.

Elisa Lam was chosen by TPTB to play Nina Pham (need a pharm) the ebola nurse lady.

Answer

The most substantial part of the story and the hardest to interpret is how she ended up in the cistern without her clothing and with no signs of trauma. There are multiple ways this COULD happen but every explanation falls apart with a little logic:

1) She was suicidal. Ok, then why did she take off her clothing and watch ahead of time? Why didn't she just jump off of the roof?

People many times do take off their clothes before committing suicide. Some even go through the effort of folding their clothes. People also remove their clothes if they become too hot or cold and are experiencing temperature induced hallucinations (or hallucinations/dissociation in general). Additionally the clothes were in the cistern so she could have taken her clothing off after getting inside of it.

2) She was murdered and the body was stashed. Ok, why did the killer remove her clothing and watch before hiding the body only to leave those items under the cistern... unless, of course, the killer was trying to make it look like Elisa crawled in on purpose. How did the killer get her dead body into a spot that difficult without leaving any signs of trauma?

The clothes wern't under the cistern. After being waterlogged for so long they were at the bottom of the water in the cistern. I do wonder like you how she could be put into the cistern without trauma to her body. However, putting all her belongings in the cistern could have been in effort to hide them and destroy evidence that could have been on them with the water. Who knows.

3) She was playing hide and go seek games with a sex-interest and they decided to skinny dipping in the cistern for thrills. Ok, but it was winter. The low that day was 46 degrees. (yes I looked it up)

Yup it was very cold I was living near LA when this happened and worried about her being "lost in the cold" when she was declared missing on the news. Awesome you looked it up to help confirm it was cold as well.

4) She was having a psychotic episode and didn't know what she was doing. Ok, but she had no history of psychotic episodes and she had the presence of mind to remove her clothing AND watch before gaining access to the cistern.

She actually did have a history of becoming manic and leaving home while her family was left to worry about her wellbeing. She also referenced in her blog about how she was worried an impending breakdown would happen, a breakdown that she might not make it through. I don't believe it is logical to remove clothes before going in a cold cistern so IMO I think that supports the fact that she may have not been in the right state of mind. Also her massive list of prescribed pills, one being used often times as an antipsychotic med, make me believe there may have been some deep mood/personality disorder going on with her.