Financial Privacy Under Fire: DHS Freezes Bitcoin Money Transfers

Originally posted by Acidtastic
Maybe there's some kind of illegal activity going through the site,...

Money laundering? Drug money transactions? Wow! Our banks would never get involved in such activities.

How a big US bank laundered billions from Mexico's murderous drug cartels
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Sorry guys but the Obamacare admin and the DHS are bankrupt and in need of stealing more currencies...They ran out of spoils of war from Libya and now it's bitcoins being used to buy their ammo and such

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


As pointed out it's based around the idea of solving an increasingly complex algorithm, the people who crack the block get that coin. It's also designed with a finite limit of the number in circulation. As such, it is based upon something tangible, which enables it to be exchanged for other tangible assets.

As for safety concerns - It's distributed and backed up using the internet - so sure, there is a VERY slight chance you might end up with nothing - but only if the world as we know it collapses, in which case your paper money is also worthless.

I think it helps to get your head around it if yo think of it as a trading commodity rather than a currency.
Infact astute observers - such as myself (and Max Kaiser, but I'm less abrasive than him believe it or not lol) noted that the crash in bitcoin may have actually prompted the crash in the gold market as people exchanged their bitcoin (then at an all time high) for gold (there are a staggering amount of bitcoins in circulation and when each one was worth $180 it really adds up) - infact if you actually look at the gold market at present Bitcoin is compares pretty favorably, there's far less manipulation going on at least.

(All this is coming from someone who views bitcoin as nothing more than a clever pyramid scheme incidentally, people who got in early are laughing )

reply to post by Erongaricuaro


In all of the Bitcoin threads I was involved in I completely and honestly said in every one of those that this system will not work....

The government will not allow a currency to rival the dollar....I said it multiple times.....I said that this system will not work and cannot work.....

You can feel free to go back through my posts in Bitcoin threads and read my replies.....I even had members arguing with me about how this is the best thing since sliced bread and I was wrong.....

To those people arguing with me, I will take credit in saying I was right but I will also say sorry that my words could not save you your time or money....

reply to post by Chrisfishenstein


There's a whole world out side of the US you know. I don't see how the American government can shut down a virtual currency for the rest of the world. All they can really do is limit the way Americans have access to it.

reply to post by MaxSteiner

And for the record, bitcoin is based upon something, which makes it far more valid than fiat currency

what EXACTLY is bitcoin based on ?

reply to post by ignorant_ape


It's been posted at least twice in this thread already, but I'll assume you want a more technical answer, so peruse this:

www.weusecoins.com...

reply to post by ignorant_ape


That's precisely my problem with it. When away from electronic screens of any kind ....what is it I hold in my physical hand to represent the physical existence of a "bitcoin"? While that is a valid question with no answer a store, burger joint or friend who isn't equally sold on the concept will take an answer for? I have to say...not much.

Diablo III has currency too...it's even exchanged for real world money through various means....it doesn't mean I'd cash a savings on Blizzard servers, within game gold. (I know, of course, this is a few levels above D-III game gold..but only a few, it seems.)

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
This would be why I never touched bitcoin in any way that matters...for anything that matters. New generations can make a great case for money/currency or whatever someone wants to call this, that doesn't exist and has no physical form.

In the end? It's still a construct with no form...hence no meaning ...hence no value. Everything else is perceptions and faith of value. Not unlike our real money. At least real money still gives me paper to show I'm supposed to have some.

I feel sorry for people who got burned on this....but what did they expect? The whole point was some rebellious notion of a currency beyond reach of the authorities? Well.. That was a foolish belief that was going to be crushed eventually. I just hope the reality didn't come TOO painfully for everyone involved.

edit on 15-5-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

Wrabbit, you do understand that your "money' is in fact an IOU? The Fed Dollar is not a "credit" but a debt, an IOU, and as such it is inherently worthless. If no one accepts dollars, they are just pieces of paper. Silver is an item, a thing, that is not a debt, or an IOU, like the dollar, and it too is worthless if no one accepts it, but it is a thing unlike the dollar which is a perception, not a thing. Original dollar certificates were "things" which were to be exchanged for gold or silver, the Fed now won't exchange the dollar for anything other then another dollar. When you pass on a dollar, you agree to pay that person in the future with something real. What this means in the real world is shocking.

When you have your money in the bank, it becomes an ASSET of the bank, it is not yours at all. The bank may take it anytime it wishes and you have no recourse at all, none, not a bit - the FED owns it's debt notes, not you. As for "insured" the reason washington mutual was bought up was because there was not enough money in the FDIC fund to cover deposits, so it was forced upon JPM to keep the scheme alive. the FDIC is well underfunded.

A bitcoin is a thing, NOT a debt. IF you have a bitcoin stored, you have a bitcoin, if you have a dollar you have a liability, not an asset, and there is a huge difference. While the process of the bitcoin is odd, and cannot exist outside the realm of computers, it is far more tangible then the dollar itself when seen for what it it is - one is debt, the other is a credit, and the difference is HUGE.

Lastly. The reason we pay "taxes" is because the Federal Reserve owns the copyright to the use of their Bank Debt Note, as such, they require a "taste" of each transaction that uses THEIR means of exchange. If you use a copyrighted dollar, you have to tip them, but if you use a bitcoin, you do not have to tip anyone, as no one owns the copyright of the bitcoin and this is the problem. What has happened is the FED has said, "we get a tip from all exchanges" but the fact is they should only get a tip from their means of exchange.

Final: Bitcoins, as an item, cannot be fractionally lent at compound interest.

reply to post by crankyoldman


Oh I understand 100% how fiat currency operates and the very shaky connection between pure perception and U.S. Dollar value. It'll make for good toilet paper some day ....as other currencies have before it. Until then, it's useful and necessary because society as a whole agrees on it's concept of value.

REAL value comes in gold, silver, guns, machine shop tools or other tangible items of intrinsic or practical value that others are willing to trade their items of physical value (or services) to obtain. I hope we never face a world (again) where the truth of that and the core meaning to it, become realities of daily life.

I can only think that the generations who lived through the 'Great Crash' and then following Great Depression would be utterly horrified at the idea of trusting "currency" that cannot even be held with the same substance of the monopoly money that national Governments issue. I'll certainly not trade one illusion of currency to grab onto another. Not personally.

Hahaha they cant shut down bitcoin use, gimme a break ...theres plenty alternatives to bitcoins too, eh this # doesn't scare me.... ill continue making my bitcoin purchases thank you very much. DHS can suck hairy donkey balls. And some of you are quite diotic , you have no clue how bitcoins work, so why bother running your jibs.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You seem to be ignoring the fact that you can exchange bitcoin for gold.
If you're doing it properly you're mining for bitcoin with your rig, waiting for a favorable time and exchanging it for gold or silver.

Given all your arguments (which are true), why do people use paper money? Because it's easier to exchange it for every day items. Exactly the same with Bitcoin, only it's used for grey market products and services.

I don't know much about bitcoin, it was always on my list of things to look into sometime. But it never made it to the top of that list, mostly because it always sounded like something destined to run into trouble from governments or bankers. Ars Technica has an updated article with more info though:

Feds reveal the search warrant used to seize Mt. Gox account

The Department of Homeland Security is investigating Mt. Gox, the largest Bitcoin exchange, for violating laws on US money exchange and money transfers—and it's grabbing the exchange's money in the process.

DHS officials refused to comment on the ongoing investigation, but they did provide a copy of the warrant that was used yesterday to seize funds that Mt. Gox had in Dwolla, a money transfer service. Dwolla is a Des Moines, Iowa company that provides one of the most popular ways to move US dollars to Mt. Gox, where they can be used to buy bitcoins.

In the warrant, a special agent with Homeland Security Investigations (HSI), states that there's probable cause to believe Mt. Gox is engaging in "money transmitting" without a license, a crime punishable by a fine or up to five years in prison. The warrant goes on to demand that Dwolla hand over the keys to account number 812-649-1010, which is owned by Mt. Gox subsidiary Mutum Sigillum LLC, and held in the custody of Veridian Credit Union.

The funds in that account "are those of Mt. Gox customers that withdraw said funds from Mt. Gox and direct their transfer to Dwolla."

Homeland Security used a confidential informant, based in Maryland, to conduct the investigation. The informant simply created accounts with Dwolla and Mt. Gox, bought bitcoins, and then changed them back into dollars. Tracing that money, HSI was able to see that the money passed through a Wells Fargo account, number 7657841313, which was created by a single authorized signer: Mark Karpeles, the president and CEO of Mt. Gox. The Dwolla account shows transfers to Dwolla going back to at least December 2011, according to the warrant...

SOURCE: Ars Technica

Ars Technica has also posted a PDF of the warrant and it's linked from the article, or here is a direct link:

PDF of the Warrant on Ars Technica

reply to post by Corruption Exposed

Are you completely sure that the countries you mentioned would ignore the US's requests?

If they did not ignore the request they could move to North Korea.. NK offered Pirate Bay a home...

When you pass on a dollar, you agree to pay that person in the future with something real...

Really? Why? How? Surely when you pass on a dollar (in exchange for goods and services), that is the end of the matter as far as you are concerned. Of course, for the vendor, there is the remotest of chances that he will be left with a worthless piece of paper - but that's only going to happen if everyone suddenly loses faith in the dollar.

What this means in the real world is shocking.

What DOES it mean, then?

... if you have a dollar you have a liability, not an asset.

I don't understand how a dollar in your pocket is a liability, not an asset.

reply to post by lacrimoniousfinale


Well put. A "worthless" dollar in my pocket gets me a burger at Burger King ...and even gets me a dime in change at the local one.

A bitcoin on my screen gets me...the need to get a paper dollar for that burger. Umm... I'm kinda hungry now, thinking about the difference. I better grab a dollar to solve that later. lol......

To anyone who thought there wasn't a monopoly on banking... they thought wrong, huh?

To the Banking "Industry", Bit Coin is Black Marketeering. If it takes any revenue from their pockets then it must be absorbed or destroyed, period.

Thats why everything is a monopoly now and you can only deal with the biggies or go without.

I sell at flea markets. If you go more than twice a year you must have a resale permit. The number of times you attend are tracked by computer at the gate and on the third time you are literally turned away from entering (happened to me).

I was hungry that week. Peon money grubbing government. They want you to run your flea market scratch like a business. Take inventory, track sales and pay tax.

When I got downtown to apply for one I was refused because I didn't have a permanent address. I went hungry that week too.

When I finally got one I hardly used it. But had to have it and show profits and growth or I lost it. That meant a lot of hungry weekends.

The real funny thing is that the flea market I attended the most always asked me for mine but never asked the people without green cards. I knew a lot of sellers there and they all said they got over because they 'knew someone' that worked there.

Now I just focus on the scrap metals and keep my flea market visits under two a year. The IRS regulated me out of making money.

Big business, big government, all they want is all you have. They stay up at night thinking about how to get it.

Grrr..

Hmmm

Seems like there was a thread a few weeks back , in which I told everyone that the world currencies would never allow bitcoin to function like everyone was praising it would.....

To that end, everyone poo-pooed me and basically told me I didnt know what I was talking about, and there was no way to stop bitcoin........


Who has egg on their face now?

Originally posted by ManBehindTheMask
Hmmm

Seems like there was a thread a few weeks back , in which I told everyone that the world currencies would never allow bitcoin to function like everyone was praising it would.....

To that end, everyone poo-pooed me and basically told me I didnt know what I was talking about, and there was no way to stop bitcoin........


Who has egg on their face now?

Who has stopped bitcoin? As far as i know you can still trade bit coin through mt.gox. It handles 80% of all the transactions anyway. You can buy bitcoin through them and sell it. Nothing has been stopped apart from one us based service.

reply to post by MaxSteiner


thank you for admitting - its not actually based on anything