To those that think gay marriage is wrong...Moving video

i dont get it

no such thing as a gay marriage...its a partnership

marriage is a religous requirement...are gays religious??????????????

what church is meant to offer ceremonies...and if it does..is it still a church


i just think there isnt that many gays wanting a marriage...i think its exaggerated
i think its more about destroying culture

they are being irresponsible by plugging gay lifestyles as a lifestyle choice and not a deeper issue


i say...being gay isnt a thing...not being gay isnt a thing either
so whats with all this noise

you want to stand in a church??? than start your own

peace

reply to post by Hopechest

So your argument against gay marriage is then by taking extremely ridiculous (and illegal) scenarios from the heterosexual realm and saying that if two persons of the same gender should be allowed, why should this this be disallowed?

Of course incest is not right - but then if you read (and believe) the bible, well incest was how the world got populated........

But the subject of this thread is gay marriage, not pedophilia, not incest, not rape, not necromancing, not bestiality, just plain old gay marriage. How about we stick to that subject and stop roadblocking sensible arguments with plainly idiotic points that are designed to distract away from the main subject.

Originally posted by Hopechest
I find it funny how those that support gay marriage insist on having their views accepted yet they do not extend that same curtesy to those that may not like it.

Very very hypocritical of them.

It has to be snowing in hell right now. I never agree with you on anything until this post. The first star I have ever given you.

Originally posted by markosity1973
reply to post by Hopechest

 

So your argument against gay marriage is then by taking extremely ridiculous (and illegal) scenarios from the heterosexual realm and saying that if two persons of the same gender should be allowed, why should this this be disallowed?

Of course incest is not right - but then if you read (and believe) the bible, well incest was how the world got populated........

But the subject of this thread is gay marriage, not pedophilia, not incest, not rape, not necromancing, not bestiality, just plain old gay marriage. How about we stick to that subject and stop roadblocking sensible arguments with plainly idiotic points that are designed to distract away from the main subject.

I don't have an argument against gay marriage because I'm not against it.

I am against many in the gay community who are hypocritical in their views and I believe I've addressed that in some detail in this thread.

My other points about incestual marriage and polygamy were a direct response to you and I did not intend to use that as a point to derail the thread.

However they are valid points and are very sensible as they will come about if gay marriage passes. However we can start another thread to discuss that if you would like.

Originally posted by markosity1973
reply to post by Hopechest

 

So your argument against gay marriage is then by taking extremely ridiculous (and illegal) scenarios

Until very recently, sodomy was ILLEGAL all over the country. I am not sure you have chosen the best argument there. If you and your boyfriend want to sodomize each other, do it in the privacy of your own bedroom. Why broadcast it all over?

Originally posted by thePharaoh
i dont get it

no such thing as a gay marriage...its a partnership

marriage is a religous requirement...are gays religious??????????????

you want to stand in a church??? than start your own

peace

And this is another common misunderstanding re marriage, gay people simply want the legal recognition. After all, there are loads of marriage ceremonies that are completely non religious, how would Atheists marry if it were just a religious thing for instance. Churches have the complete right to say no to gay marriage ceremonies on the basis of doctrine, but what we are talking about is secular every day rights.

The guy in the video raises the very pertinent point that he had absolutely no legal rights when his partner died and he lost pretty much everything both emotionally and materially too. This is the crux of the matter, legal recognition. A simple example of the inequality is that when a partner dies a will can be made to leave everything to your partner of the same sex, but the family can easily come along and overturn the will and the partner gets absolutely nothing. I've seen it happen to friends of mine. Not very fair really.

Originally posted by Hopechest



I am against many in the gay community who are hypocritical in their views and I believe I've addressed that in some detail in this thread.

Would you agree that there are as many hypocritical gays as there are hypocritical Christians? What about hypocritical gun owners? Nobody likes to be told that what they believe in or how they live their life is wrong. That's just human nature. I don't see gays demanding that everyone like their gayness any more than I see Christians demanding that we love their Christian-ness. Or gun owners demand that we love their guns. Everyone just wants to be able to live their life without being put down.

Originally posted by markosity1973

Originally posted by thePharaoh
i dont get it

no such thing as a gay marriage...its a partnership

marriage is a religous requirement...are gays religious??????????????

you want to stand in a church??? than start your own

peace

And this is another common misunderstanding re marriage, gay people simply want the legal recognition. After all, there are loads of marriage ceremonies that are completely non religious, how would Atheists marry if it were just a religious thing for instance. Churches have the complete right to say no to gay marriage ceremonies on the basis of doctrine, but what we are talking about is secular every day rights.

The guy in the video raises the very pertinent point that he had absolutely no legal rights when his partner died and he lost pretty much everything both emotionally and materially too. This is the crux of the matter, legal recognition. A simple example of the inequality is that when a partner dies a will can be made to leave everything to your partner of the same sex, but the family can easily come along and overturn the will and the partner gets absolutely nothing. I've seen it happen to friends of mine. Not very fair really.

There currently are legal ways to ensure this doesn't happen that doesn't require marriage.

The fact that these people didn't do that shows they were irresponsible and are now trying to envoke sympathy for their mistake.

Originally posted by markosity1973


The guy in the video raises the very pertinent point that he had absolutely no legal rights when his partner died and he lost pretty much everything both emotionally and materially too. This is the crux of the matter, legal recognition.

erm

should of written a will !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when it comes to heirs recieving a dead relatives estate
THERE ARE ALWAYS THESE ISSUES....your step - mom can take your home that your daddy built
ALSO ..LOOK AT MICHEAL JACKSONS FAMILY COURT CASE....


nothing new here.... if you want your dead partners estate...than a regular gay partnerhip would of secured it!!
only way otherwise if he was next of kin...


sounds like the dudes
1) unorganised
2) or just a theifs ploy


not feeling it

Originally posted by Hopechest


Try going into any gay event and say your against homosexuality and you will have pretty much everyone condemning you for your views.

Very few will actually say they understand why you do agree with them and treat you like an equal.

Try going to a Southern Baptist church event, then proclaiming that their religion is wrong and God is make-believe. See what their reaction is.

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by markosity1973
reply to post by Hopechest

 

So your argument against gay marriage is then by taking extremely ridiculous (and illegal) scenarios from the heterosexual realm and saying that if two persons of the same gender should be allowed, why should this this be disallowed?

Of course incest is not right - but then if you read (and believe) the bible, well incest was how the world got populated........

But the subject of this thread is gay marriage, not pedophilia, not incest, not rape, not necromancing, not bestiality, just plain old gay marriage. How about we stick to that subject and stop roadblocking sensible arguments with plainly idiotic points that are designed to distract away from the main subject.

I don't have an argument against gay marriage because I'm not against it.

I am against many in the gay community who are hypocritical in their views and I believe I've addressed that in some detail in this thread.

My other points about incestual marriage and polygamy were a direct response to you and I did not intend to use that as a point to derail the thread.

However they are valid points and are very sensible as they will come about if gay marriage passes. However we can start another thread to discuss that if you would like.

Well it is good to hear that you are not against it, but let's take a simple look at the definition of a gay relationship that common law would consider legal; two people of the same gender and of legal sexual age living in a committed relationship that is presumably monogamous. I put in presumably, as even some (not all) heterosexual marriages suffer from affairs from time to time as do some (not all) gay relationships.

What people need to understand is that a gay relationship has nothing to do with anything other than two people of the same sex (and legal age) living and sharing their lives together. Gay love is the same as straight love in that the feelings of love, loyalty, companionship, the desire to be with someone as opposed to being alone are all the same.

People can argue the point over things like pedophilia and incest and all the other sexual activity I mentioned, but these are just arguments unenlightened people use to derail and deviate from the actual subject.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by Hopechest


Try going into any gay event and say your against homosexuality and you will have pretty much everyone condemning you for your views.

Very few will actually say they understand why you do agree with them and treat you like an equal.

Try going to a Southern Baptist church event, then proclaiming that their religion is wrong and God is make-believe. See what their reaction is.

Exactly my point.

They are no different than the majority of the gay community. Both sides are very discriminatory so when I see a sympathetic video from either of them it has no effect on me and i call BS.

Change your views first then start tugging at heart strings.

Originally posted by markosity1973

Originally posted by Hopechest

Originally posted by markosity1973
reply to post by Hopechest

 

So your argument against gay marriage is then by taking extremely ridiculous (and illegal) scenarios from the heterosexual realm and saying that if two persons of the same gender should be allowed, why should this this be disallowed?

Of course incest is not right - but then if you read (and believe) the bible, well incest was how the world got populated........

But the subject of this thread is gay marriage, not pedophilia, not incest, not rape, not necromancing, not bestiality, just plain old gay marriage. How about we stick to that subject and stop roadblocking sensible arguments with plainly idiotic points that are designed to distract away from the main subject.

I don't have an argument against gay marriage because I'm not against it.

I am against many in the gay community who are hypocritical in their views and I believe I've addressed that in some detail in this thread.

My other points about incestual marriage and polygamy were a direct response to you and I did not intend to use that as a point to derail the thread.

However they are valid points and are very sensible as they will come about if gay marriage passes. However we can start another thread to discuss that if you would like.

Well it is good to hear that you are not against it, but let's take a simple look at the definition of a gay relationship that common law would consider legal; two people of the same gender and of legal sexual age living in a committed relationship that is presumably monogamous. I put in presumably, as even some (not all) heterosexual marriages suffer from affairs from time to time as do some (not all) gay relationships.

What people need to understand is that a gay relationship has nothing to do with anything other than two people of the same sex (and legal age) living and sharing their lives together. Gay love is the same as straight love in that the feelings of love, loyalty, companionship, the desire to be with someone as opposed to being alone are all the same.

People can argue the point over things like pedophilia and incest and all the other sexual activity I mentioned, but these are just arguments unenlightened people use to derail and deviate from the actual subject.

These same arguments will be used by lawyers arguing for an incestual or polygamist marriage.

That was my point. Its what I would do if I were a lawyer. Once that barrier comes down no court of law would be able to deny either of these due to discrimination.

This is not meant to detract from the OP but just a side point since you brought it up. Now you may or may not be fine with this but it will happen and there are court cases pending as we speak on both of these issues.

Originally posted by Hopechest

These same arguments will be used by lawyers arguing for an incestual or polygamist marriage.

That was my point. Its what I would do if I were a lawyer. Once that barrier comes down no court of law would be able to deny either of these due to discrimination.

This is not meant to detract from the OP but just a side point since you brought it up. Now you may or may not be fine with this but it will happen and there are court cases pending as we speak on both of these issues.

These types of marriages have been going on in various cultures since recorded history (and probably before). So what. Big whoop.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by Hopechest

These same arguments will be used by lawyers arguing for an incestual or polygamist marriage.

That was my point. Its what I would do if I were a lawyer. Once that barrier comes down no court of law would be able to deny either of these due to discrimination.

This is not meant to detract from the OP but just a side point since you brought it up. Now you may or may not be fine with this but it will happen and there are court cases pending as we speak on both of these issues.

These types of marriages have been going on in various cultures since recorded history (and probably before). So what. Big whoop.

Well if you are fine with them then end of story.

I was simply bringing up the point that it will happen, many people do have a problem with things like incestual marriages.

It is a valid argument against allowing gays to marry and one that not many people think of. But if you have no issue with it then its not relevant.

reply to post by Hopechest


Oh yes, remember the blacks? How dare they demand rights! They should have been more courteous to white racists.

Logic fail x 9001.

Originally posted by thePharaoh

Originally posted by markosity1973


The guy in the video raises the very pertinent point that he had absolutely no legal rights when his partner died and he lost pretty much everything both emotionally and materially too. This is the crux of the matter, legal recognition.

erm

should of written a will !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

when it comes to heirs recieving a dead relatives estate
THERE ARE ALWAYS THESE ISSUES....your step - mom can take your home that your daddy built
ALSO ..LOOK AT MICHEAL JACKSONS FAMILY COURT CASE....


nothing new here.... if you want your dead partners estate...than a regular gay partnerhip would of secured it!!
only way otherwise if he was next of kin...


sounds like the dudes
1) unorganised
2) or just a theifs ploy


not feeling it

edit on 13-5-2013 by thePharaoh because: (no reason given)

You are well entitled to your opinion, but consider this case example of an old (now dead friend) of mine in NZ back before gay relationships had any legal recognition.

The guy was in a gay relationship for 20 years and was the son of a quite wealthy family, the parents were always against his relationship and had gone to the point of cutting him from the will, choosing to leave all of their estate to the rest of his siblings because they were straight. (I can hear lots of people saying so what, serves him right as I type)

The story takes an interesting twist however, as Rob was a stoic sort of person, he was educated and managed to make his own way in life. He met a partner and they shared a life together for, as mentioned above, 20 years until Rob tragically died in a car smash. Naturally Rob had made a will because he was educated and he chose to leave everything to his partner as after all, they had both supported each other and had helped each other on the way to success. Rob's family had offered no support and he had not spoken to them for a couple of years before the day he died. However, when poor Rob died, his partner (Adam) was not even allowed to see Rob and say his goodbyes (much like in the video). He was not a blood relative and his family chose to not allow him to see him. Just like in the video the family heard of the will and basically tore it up because once again, the relationship had no legal standing.

Can you imagine the hurt of losing a partner and then having a family that have made not secret of the fact that they despise you rummaging through the home you and your partner built together and basically taking what they want? On top of this, they come and drain your bank accounts and insist you either buy your partner's half of the house out or sell it and split the money after the mortgage is paid out? This was all legal when gay relationships had no rights in NZ and they did it all to Adam.

This is the equality gay people are after, a lot of relationships are shunned and ignored by the families of the people involved, but when a gay person dies they think it is their right to come along and take everything they want from the surviving partner. And at this point in time, the law is on their side in a lot of places around the world.

Originally posted by DestroyDestroyDestroy
reply to post by Hopechest

 

Oh yes, remember the blacks? How dare they demand rights! They should have been more courteous to white racists.

Logic fail x 9001.

No, but an African-american that hates whites would get my scorn as much as a white who hates blacks.

Many in the gay community will not accept opposing views yet they require everyone to accept them.

See the difference or shall I pull out my crayons and draw you a picture?

These same arguments will be used by lawyers arguing for an incestual or polygamist marriage.

That was my point. Its what I would do if I were a lawyer. Once that barrier comes down no court of law would be able to deny either of these due to discrimination.

This is not meant to detract from the OP but just a side point since you brought it up. Now you may or may not be fine with this but it will happen and there are court cases pending as we speak on both of these issues.

I get where you are coming from and polygamy is one of those grey issues. It isn't my cup of tea, but at the end of the day if you were to argue it on pure religious grounds, then as with incest, there is plenty of precedent for it.

I think the legal precedent for incest would not be so strong due to the very real problem of inbreeding, which is why the law came in to practice in the first place. However, on religious grounds once again one can argue a point for it strangely enough.

Originally posted by Hopechest

I am against many in the gay community who are hypocritical in their views and I believe I've addressed that in some detail in this thread.

I'm not sure I see the hypocrisy. All these people are fighting for is equality. It isn't that so much that they want all people to accept their views, it's that they want people to recognise that they are allowed to have them and that they should not be discriminated against for it. It's hardly the same thing as actively trying to deny a group of people equal rights because you disagree with them.

Originally posted by thePharaoh
i dont get it

no such thing as a gay marriage...its a partnership

marriage is a religous requirement...are gays religious??????????????

what church is meant to offer ceremonies...and if it does..is it still a church


i just think there isnt that many gays wanting a marriage...i think its exaggerated
i think its more about destroying culture

they are being irresponsible by plugging gay lifestyles as a lifestyle choice and not a deeper issue


i say...being gay isnt a thing...not being gay isnt a thing either
so whats with all this noise

you want to stand in a church??? than start your own

peace

Small point of contention. Marriage is not and never was a religious institution and predates it by quite a bit. Religion has certainly done a stellar job of pretending it owns it, but the reality of the situation is quite different.