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To those that think gay marriage is wrong...Moving video
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Originally posted by just1question
"Firstly, no-one chooses their sexual orientation. Straight people don't choose to be attracted to members of the opposite sex."
I am gonna have to say I disagree with that statement. I DID in fact choose my sexual orientation. Attraction and experimentaion made my choice for me, not social conditioning.
By saying you chose it, then saying attraction made your choice aren't the same thing. You didn't wake up one day and say "Oh, I'm going to be attracted to someone who's the opposite (or same) gender. You were already attracted to people of that gender, and you chose to act on that attraction.
reply to post by markosity1973
Haha, you're quite welcome. Nowadays, it can be easy to forget that some people just have sex because they can because we don't hear about it nearly as much as we used to anymore.
Haha, you're quite welcome. Nowadays, it can be easy to forget that some people just have sex because they can because we don't hear about it nearly as much as we used to anymore.
reply to post by Dondylion
Wow!...So that's what I did!!!!
I'm kinda uncertain about how I should think and feel as well. Can ya help me out there too?
I don't want to get away from the topic, but this is beginning to sound like there is no free will, our dna is already programmed and we have no say in the matter. Is that what you are implying?
If that is the case then there is no reason for any of us to be discussing anything whatsoever.
???
Wow!...So that's what I did!!!!
I'm kinda uncertain about how I should think and feel as well. Can ya help me out there too?
I don't want to get away from the topic, but this is beginning to sound like there is no free will, our dna is already programmed and we have no say in the matter. Is that what you are implying?
If that is the case then there is no reason for any of us to be discussing anything whatsoever.
???
reply to post by just1question
As far as who you are attracted to, yes. Kind of. The most recent studies theorize that most likely, it's "epigenetic", meaning, how our genes are affected in the womb by hormones. That's what it means to be "born this way". Straight people are born attracted to the opposite gender. Gay people are born attracted to the same gender.
New Insight into the Epigenetic Roots of Homosexuality
Science will keep studying it until they find out exactly what causes it, but it's clear that gay people know, from a very young age, that they are gay.
Originally posted by just1question
but this is beginning to sound like there is no free will, our dna is already programmed and we have no say in the matter. Is that what you are implying?
As far as who you are attracted to, yes. Kind of. The most recent studies theorize that most likely, it's "epigenetic", meaning, how our genes are affected in the womb by hormones. That's what it means to be "born this way". Straight people are born attracted to the opposite gender. Gay people are born attracted to the same gender.
New Insight into the Epigenetic Roots of Homosexuality
It’s not in written in our DNA sequence itself, they suggest, which explains why scientists have failed so far to find “gay genes,” despite intensive investigations. Instead, it’s written in how our genes are expressed: that is, in certain modifications to how and when DNA is activated. These changes can have environmental roots, so are not normally permanent enough to be passed from parent to child. But occasionally, they are.
Science will keep studying it until they find out exactly what causes it, but it's clear that gay people know, from a very young age, that they are gay.
Originally posted by just1question
reply to post by Dondylion
Wow!...So that's what I did!!!!
I'm kinda uncertain about how I should think and feel as well. Can ya help me out there too?
I don't want to get away from the topic, but this is beginning to sound like there is no free will, our dna is already programmed and we have no say in the matter. Is that what you are implying?
If that is the case then there is no reason for any of us to be discussing anything whatsoever.
???
I told myself that I wouldn't be replying to this due to the sheer lack of logic, but I'll bite.
If you're so adamant about choosing your attraction, when did you make the choice? When did you choose to be attracted to someone of the opposite (or same, whichever) sex? When did you consciously make the choice to find someone attractive?
"Most likely" doesn't mean anything to me...as in, Tiger is most likely to win the next tournament......
Logic?
This thread is not about me.
Your curiousity will never be satisfied even if I tell you the street I grew up on and my personal stories of playing kissy kiss with girls in the bushes. Not really sure if I was 4 or 32 at the time but I fail to see where that matters.
If my father patted my mothers belly as I was in the womb and stated, "Ma boy here is gonna grow up to be a beer drinkin, pu$$y eatin som bitch I tell ya"!...I'm sure it would have some sort of influence on the subconscious mind from that point on and may very well shape my attractions in the future...whether I FELT gay or straight.
You seem awfully set in your belief. Are you a practicing professional in this field? Is your premise true for everyone on the planet? If so, you just found the secret to life...
???
Logic?
This thread is not about me.
Your curiousity will never be satisfied even if I tell you the street I grew up on and my personal stories of playing kissy kiss with girls in the bushes. Not really sure if I was 4 or 32 at the time but I fail to see where that matters.
If my father patted my mothers belly as I was in the womb and stated, "Ma boy here is gonna grow up to be a beer drinkin, pu$$y eatin som bitch I tell ya"!...I'm sure it would have some sort of influence on the subconscious mind from that point on and may very well shape my attractions in the future...whether I FELT gay or straight.
You seem awfully set in your belief. Are you a practicing professional in this field? Is your premise true for everyone on the planet? If so, you just found the secret to life...
???
I can...
To what advantage? Solving YOUR curiousity?
What you have stated doesn't apply to all situations once you look at the entire picture.
Would you like me to recall every instance in my childhood from the first suckling of a nipple to the first time at sex.
Can YOU go through each and everyone of those encounters and give me a professional diagnosis as to what they mean and the outcome?
I didn't think so...
???
To what advantage? Solving YOUR curiousity?
What you have stated doesn't apply to all situations once you look at the entire picture.
Would you like me to recall every instance in my childhood from the first suckling of a nipple to the first time at sex.
Can YOU go through each and everyone of those encounters and give me a professional diagnosis as to what they mean and the outcome?
I didn't think so...
???
reply to post by just1question
Going around avoiding my questions might be cute to some, but it's rather annoying.
You say you chose to be attracted to who you're attracted to. I want to know WHEN you made that choice. If you truly chose to be attracted to the opposite (or same, whichever) gender, then you obviously know when you consciously made the choice to find those people attractive.
Stating when you first had sex or whatever else you just said has nothing to do with choosing to find that person attractive at all. The only thing it shows is that you cannot answer my question.
Take your time, I have all afternoon.
Going around avoiding my questions might be cute to some, but it's rather annoying.
You say you chose to be attracted to who you're attracted to. I want to know WHEN you made that choice. If you truly chose to be attracted to the opposite (or same, whichever) gender, then you obviously know when you consciously made the choice to find those people attractive.
Stating when you first had sex or whatever else you just said has nothing to do with choosing to find that person attractive at all. The only thing it shows is that you cannot answer my question.
Take your time, I have all afternoon.
edit on 16/5/2013 by Dondylion because: (no reason given)
Watch this video then tell me you dont think that gay people deserve to get married.
So much love in that room, made me smile
So much love in that room, made me smile
reply to post by Dondylion
O.K. Dondy..As you wish.
You might change your mind about "jumping in".
I politely told you this thread wasn't about me and I am asking the mods to acknowledge that.
My physical, sexual abuse started with a grandfather at age 4. A hired maid continued after that. It was at the age of 9 or 10 that I started to like...
Before I continue, I need to know something from you. Are you going to be administering health, medical, professional or legal advice to me as a client here on this board? Is it going to be confidential or is this just your opinion?
Go ahead...I have all day....
???
O.K. Dondy..As you wish.
You might change your mind about "jumping in".
I politely told you this thread wasn't about me and I am asking the mods to acknowledge that.
My physical, sexual abuse started with a grandfather at age 4. A hired maid continued after that. It was at the age of 9 or 10 that I started to like...
Before I continue, I need to know something from you. Are you going to be administering health, medical, professional or legal advice to me as a client here on this board? Is it going to be confidential or is this just your opinion?
Go ahead...I have all day....
???
reply to post by just1question
I didn't ask for your life story. I asked when you consciously chose to be attracted to the opposite (or same) gender.
But since its apparent you are seriously struggling to answer such a simple question, I give up.
I'm done with your complete avoidance of answering a question.
I didn't ask for your life story. I asked when you consciously chose to be attracted to the opposite (or same) gender.
But since its apparent you are seriously struggling to answer such a simple question, I give up.
I'm done with your complete avoidance of answering a question.
Originally posted by just1question
reply to post by Dondylion
O.K. Dondy..As you wish.
You might change your mind about "jumping in".
I politely told you this thread wasn't about me and I am asking the mods to acknowledge that.
My physical, sexual abuse started with a grandfather at age 4. A hired maid continued after that. It was at the age of 9 or 10 that I started to like...
Before I continue, I need to know something from you. Are you going to be administering health, medical, professional or legal advice to me as a client here on this board? Is it going to be confidential or is this just your opinion?
Go ahead...I have all day....
???
You didn't "choose to be attracted" to anybody. You might think you did, although I doubt it. If you do think that, you're incorrect. Frankly, it seems like you're just trying to be a jackanapes and succeeding quite well.
Wow...just incredible.
At 9 or 10 years old, I decided I liked girls. I was ATTRACTED to them. I CHOOSE between the 2. I made the CHOICE that I was attracted to girls and not attracted to boys....
Now please bestow your great wisdom upon me and explain to me how I didn't make that a choice! How is it that you think that you can tell someone what they did or didn't feel or choose.
WTH is a "jackanapes"?
???
At 9 or 10 years old, I decided I liked girls. I was ATTRACTED to them. I CHOOSE between the 2. I made the CHOICE that I was attracted to girls and not attracted to boys....
Now please bestow your great wisdom upon me and explain to me how I didn't make that a choice! How is it that you think that you can tell someone what they did or didn't feel or choose.
WTH is a "jackanapes"?
???
Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Science will keep studying it until they find out exactly what causes it, but it's clear that gay people know, from a very young age, that they are gay.
out with the cattle today and noticed a 6 week old little bull calf trying to huma a 9 month old bull calf.
homosexual bull calves are useless and no good.
if they wont screw the cows and make more hamburger for mcdonalds then all they are is a useless eater.
since BH says that this 6 week old calf must be choosing his preference, i took him and penned him in the corral and have him killed this weekend.
i would feel BAD selliong him to an unsuspecting farmer/rancher who would be disappointed that he dont breed.
do any of you guals want him, i will send him to you if you do.
he is black and cute.
al;ready knew at age 6 weeks, darnit Benevolent Heretic, wish you had not have told us that.
Please read this.
Dear ATSers,
I see from various people and sources that I have caused hurt and anger with my post back on Page 5. There was no need for me to do that, even in this controversial topic.
I am responsible for what I write. If I write well or poorly, lovingly or with hate, they are my words and, if fault there is, it is my fault. There is also no excuse. No one is forcing me to hit the "reply" button.
I will only mention one contributing factor. Not as an excuse.
I was attempting to make a distinction and single out the vague political and social phenomenon sometimes called the "Gay Lobby," or the "Homosexual Movement." But I did it so poorly that I can completely understand how some (or many, I don't know) saw it as an attack on them or their choices in life. When I failed to make that distinction, I hurt many people. Most painfully for me, some saw that I had betrayed them and my own ideals. For that I can't make sufficient amends.
You have no reason to believe me, but I think I have to say this, if only because it is right. Let me explain my feelings toward homosexuals. I enjoy them immensely, and if we happen to meet, I find myself in deeper and more significant converations with them than average. I appreciate the differences for which they are sometimes condemned. There is often a greater sensitivity, more appreciation for literature and art, and a willingness to go quickly beyond the superficialities of common conversation.
Yes, there are some who are "very strange." I'm not quite over my reluctance to talk with anyone wearing sparkly spandex briefs and tennis shoes, downtown, while topless. But that's not the point.
Love, caring, friendship are all valuable and desirable, I wish I had more. I'm grateful for people who do. The rest of the issues will be handled by courts and legislatures. That should not be my concern, at least not in the way I chose to address it.
What I did was to confuse individuals with movements. I love individuals, but movements scare me.
It seems like I'm apologizing a lot, but please believe that it is heartfelt.
With respect,
Charles1952
Dear ATSers,
I see from various people and sources that I have caused hurt and anger with my post back on Page 5. There was no need for me to do that, even in this controversial topic.
I am responsible for what I write. If I write well or poorly, lovingly or with hate, they are my words and, if fault there is, it is my fault. There is also no excuse. No one is forcing me to hit the "reply" button.
I will only mention one contributing factor. Not as an excuse.
There were other significant stressors, but that is not an excuse. I shouldn't have written when not feeling my best, any more than an Indy racer should drive if he's not in top shape.
Forgive me for this one, it's 4 in the morning, my head hurts, I'm crabby and I've had enough. This is not my ususal nice guy post.
I was attempting to make a distinction and single out the vague political and social phenomenon sometimes called the "Gay Lobby," or the "Homosexual Movement." But I did it so poorly that I can completely understand how some (or many, I don't know) saw it as an attack on them or their choices in life. When I failed to make that distinction, I hurt many people. Most painfully for me, some saw that I had betrayed them and my own ideals. For that I can't make sufficient amends.
You have no reason to believe me, but I think I have to say this, if only because it is right. Let me explain my feelings toward homosexuals. I enjoy them immensely, and if we happen to meet, I find myself in deeper and more significant converations with them than average. I appreciate the differences for which they are sometimes condemned. There is often a greater sensitivity, more appreciation for literature and art, and a willingness to go quickly beyond the superficialities of common conversation.
Yes, there are some who are "very strange." I'm not quite over my reluctance to talk with anyone wearing sparkly spandex briefs and tennis shoes, downtown, while topless. But that's not the point.
Love, caring, friendship are all valuable and desirable, I wish I had more. I'm grateful for people who do. The rest of the issues will be handled by courts and legislatures. That should not be my concern, at least not in the way I chose to address it.
What I did was to confuse individuals with movements. I love individuals, but movements scare me.
It seems like I'm apologizing a lot, but please believe that it is heartfelt.
With respect,
Charles1952
reply to post by just1question
So you are saying at some point in your life you were attracted to other males as well as females?
And you are saying you made the conscious decision to only be attracted to females?
Or was the attraction for women always there and you just acted upon it...which means you did not choose anything...it was already there.
I know I did not choose to be heterosexual...I was always attractive to females...I never had any sort of attraction for other males.
By the way..being molested..does not mean you may have been gay at some point..it means that some adult did not care about what you wanted, you were there for their own personal gratification..and had nothing to do with you choosing to be with another male. It was forced upon you.
So you are saying at some point in your life you were attracted to other males as well as females?
And you are saying you made the conscious decision to only be attracted to females?
Or was the attraction for women always there and you just acted upon it...which means you did not choose anything...it was already there.
I know I did not choose to be heterosexual...I was always attractive to females...I never had any sort of attraction for other males.
By the way..being molested..does not mean you may have been gay at some point..it means that some adult did not care about what you wanted, you were there for their own personal gratification..and had nothing to do with you choosing to be with another male. It was forced upon you.
Also why do people care if gays get married...Why use the sanctity of marriage thing. I mean c'mon on you have straights who get married on a
whim..and then divorcing.
There is nothing there any more..in fact WTH would gays want to get married? Marriage means nothing no more.
In the end who cares...let them..it is a trivial ceremony.
There is nothing there any more..in fact WTH would gays want to get married? Marriage means nothing no more.
In the end who cares...let them..it is a trivial ceremony.
reply to post by just1question
Did you feel any attraction to guys at all or was the attraction never there?
Do you actually believe that you CHOSE the attraction to females? Or was the attraction to females already there and you just chose to ACT on it?
I don't think guys says "today I will be attracted to breasts". He either finds it attractive or not, it's because he feels the attraction that he can say "I like breasts".
Originally posted by just1question
Wow...just incredible.
At 9 or 10 years old, I decided I liked girls. I was ATTRACTED to them.
I CHOOSE between the 2. I made the CHOICE that I was attracted to girls and not attracted to boys....
Did you feel any attraction to guys at all or was the attraction never there?
Do you actually believe that you CHOSE the attraction to females? Or was the attraction to females already there and you just chose to ACT on it?
I don't think guys says "today I will be attracted to breasts". He either finds it attractive or not, it's because he feels the attraction that he can say "I like breasts".
edit on 16-5-2013 by arpgme because: (no reason given)
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