Boston Bombing: Examining Pressure Cooker in Backpacks

reply to post by gladtobehere

Unfortunately, this original suspect did not match the description of the brothers as he was a "dark skinned male".

The term "dark skinned" is a much too subjective to claim that Dzhokhar didn't match that description. In the photos that I've found of him, his face tends to be over exposed. Can you show me a better one?

Also strange is the idea that someone would use a pressure cooker. Theyre constructed of solid steel and are made to withstand an explosion in the event that there is a pressure mishap.

No! That's not a strange idea at all.

Pressure cookers ARE NOT "made to withstand an explosion". The only feature on a pressure cooker that prevents it from exploding on a stove top, is a properly functioning safety release valve.

Equally puzzling is the fact that the younger brother still had the backpack after the fact...

You don't KNOW "that the younger brother still had THE backpack after the fact". That's only your speculation.

Because they were the one's I preferred, I once purchased three identical backpacks, and I don't feel that's unusual at all.

See ya,
Milt

reply to post by NickDC202

Thanks for your thoughtful follow-up; the weight info you shared is a good piece of the puzzle, I'd probably add 5 pounds to your guesstimate for the ball bearing-like materials and other shrapnel material used in the device.

You are very welcome! The way you present yourself in your posts is truly refreshing. Would you mind if I add you to my friends list?

6 quarts of water in a 9 pound pressure cooker would only weigh 21 pounds. As you can see, I already added an extra 9 pounds for my guesstimate.

although I know he wrestled in high school, pot smoking and partying college Dzhokhar seems comfortable holding that extra weight for extended periods using just one shoulder to support it.

I don't feel that means much. I'm almost 60, haven't excercized since high school, have smoked 2-3 packs of "Kools" since I was 23 and, back in my pot smoking and drinking days, I started many of those hikes with a severe hangover. Furthermore, the pot used to help me forget how bad I felt. LOL

I've lived in Chicago for about 3 years and while I have heard of Zion, I've never been there (I don't get to the suburbs much; I am very much a city guy).

Having grown up as an Air Force brat, I don't really have a preference regarding city dwelling or country dwelling. I've done both in addition to living on many Air Force bases, and I have always enjoyed where I was at, at the time I was there.

I never considered Zion to be a suburb of Chicago. At the time I lived there, there was a fairly rural gap between Zion and Waukegan. I imagine that has changed by now though.

See ya buddy,
Milt

Originally posted by NickDC202
…the most basic question: Could a pressure cooker fit into a backpack?
…Examining the Backpacks
As someone who regularly carries a backpack, I know what a pain it is to fit larger, oddly shaped things in a backpack (not to mention trying to stuff clothes for a weekend away into a backpack to avoid airline bag check fees...). I also know that when your backpack is heavier than usual you tend to wear both straps or else you're usually dealing with the backpack sliding off the one shoulder you have it on when you walk (and if you are more talented than me and can do the one shoulder routine with a heavy backpack you will definitely alternate shoulders if wearing a heavy backpack for an extended period).
…

Good points!
I realize that you were beginning with the most basic question…but, if we assume (or conclude) that the subject pressure cooker/s could/would fit into the backpacks, we still must address the question of feasibility…
Would the loaded backpack/s appear distended/distorted enough to draw attention? (There were tons of law enforcement officers present.)
In the masses (on the sidewalks where they would have to commute), would an accidental bump (into an innocent passer-by, or into a LEO) raise suspicions/alarms? (bump! - "Sh#t! What you got in there? A bomb or something?!")
In at least one of the pics you posted (and probably more than one), the backpack does look distended (to me). The way the younger Tsarnaev is walking (with the left shoulder dipped in most pictures)…might suggest that he is overcompensating…so as to appear “balanced” in his gait.
As I underlined (in your statement above) – I think you’ve identified a genuine concern.
But, if he knew – “Man – you’ve only got to do this for 10 minutes, max… So – whatever you do – don’t wuss-out, and act like the bag is heavier than would be fitting for this environment”…then, I could see putting up with the increasing discomfort.
According to the FBI Complaint – he would probably only have actually needed to sling the pack for about 7 or 8 minutes, once they arrived on Boylston.
But - the other point - as you described... He's wearing a jacket (was it denim?)... And, unless he is very proficient at doing the heavy backpack over one shoulder on a denim jacket ---- It is going to be slipping off.
Which might be an added reason for dipping the left shoulder...to lift the right shoulder...to bring gravity to his aid in keeping it from slipping off --
And even so -- I have done this, before, and after a while, it still slipped from my shoulder.

What is most interesting today is that officials have no problem releasing video footage (and still photos) of the Mother's Day parade shootings in New Orleans, yet no of the alleged surveillance footage of the Tsarnaev brothers planting backpacks or clear footage of them leaving the scene without backpacks has come to light... in my opinion such footage placing each of them exactly where the devices exploded could have been tremendously helpful in establishing their identities from other people in the crowd... well, if anyone actually believes that federal officials didn't already know exactly who they were before they held that suspect 1 and suspect 2 press conference considering that both the FBI and CIA knew Tamerlan and Homeland Security knew his brother from his recent attaining of US citizenship...

aint got the time right now gonna read this later thanks for posting

reply to post by BenReclused

Nope.

The brothers are White. They are not "dark skinned".

Just take a look at the video. Oh wait...

Its not speculation, its the same back pack.

reply to post by gladtobehere

The brothers are White. They are not "dark skinned".

That's a mighty ignorant comment!

Because the current US Census defines "White" as "a person having origins in any of Europe, the Middle East or North Africa", "Whites" come in MANY SHADES of skin color. Those shades range from very "light skinned" to very "dark skinned".

The Tsarnaev brothers have darker colored skin than many "Whites", and lighter colored skin than many other "Whites". Hell, one of the brothers even seems to have "darker skin" than the other has!

As I said before:

The term "dark skinned" is a much too subjective to claim that Dzhokhar didn't match that description.

Just take a look at the video.

Post a link, so I can view the same source that you are using.

Its not speculation, its the same back pack.

If that's true, you must have ruled out the likelihood of there being two matching backpacks. I'm interested in knowing how you did that! If you haven't done so, you are, in fact, only assuming, based on your "speculation", that "its the same back pack".

See ya,
Milt

you dont know what to believe these days

Originally posted by gladtobehere
reply to post by BenReclused

 

Its not speculation, its the same back pack.

I am keenly interested to understand how you arrived at the conclusion that it is the same backpack.
I would really appreciate it if you would share with us what evidence you included and examined to determine that the backpack pictured in the Tamerlan Tsarnaev's home (pictures which taken days after the 15 April marathon explosions) is the same backpack Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is pictured wearing in the photos of him at the Boston Marathon.
This information you can share would be quite helpful in opening the eyes of others who are convinced that the Tsarnaev brothers are the only people responsible for the Boston Marathon explosions.

reply to post by NickDC202

They found it in his apartment after the fact:

reply to post by BenReclused

Well, thats the point, theyre not showing us the video of the dark skinned suspects in the Craft gear:

Authorities say they have video of the "dark skinned" man dropping a backpack near the store shortly before the explosion took place.

Yet they're more than happy to convict these two in every way possible, the latest being the scribbled confession.

To address the OP, you can kill two 110 story buildings and one 78 story building with only 19 two dollar boxcutters, which you can probably buy in bulk for maybe 25 cents a piece.

Sarcasm off

Nobody could look inconspicuous with a pressure cooker bomb strapped to their back. Carrying it for more than a few blocks would probably be rather heavy as well. Disregard the backpacks in this case because they can't fit them for one, Two, security would have to seriously be dense to not notice the suspects, with humongous backpacks bulging at the seams, so heavy that they had to set them down.

We all know that marathons are pretty exciting, yet I would most likely notice the crowd, more so because it is a marathon, and they suck. If i were performing security, I would be more concerned with the crowd. Not exactly to do my job, necessarily, but to scope out women. Some dude with an overstuffed backpack would probably garner at least a gander.

Maybe terrorists need to apply that have big boobs and a big butt too in order for trained counter-terrorists to actually acknowledge them in America.

reply to post by dfens


Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I DO appreciate your sarcastic opening sentence; you might agree that compared to other sites, more ATS members are unfamiliar with the concept of sarcasm, even when the usage is clear...

I tend to agree that it likely would be difficult to be inconspicuous with a pressure cooker bomb in one's backpack. It was that hypothesis which led me to start this thread in hopes of learning the manufacturer and model of one or both of the backpacks in order to buy the same backpacks, try to put a Fagor Elite 6 Quart Pressure Cooker in the backpack to see if it fits and, if it does fit, demonstrate how it would appear when worn. Unfortunately I have not been able to identify the manufacturer and model of either backpack.

While there has been fluent discussion about the total weight of the backpack containing a pressure cooker explosive device, I still find the fact that Dzokhar only wore the backpack on one shoulder (and always the same shoulder) to be quite telling because it would indicate that he doesn't have 25+ pounds worth of stuff in his backpack. I've often had 25+ pounds of stuff my backpack and it is heavy and uncomfortable when worn on one shoulder (and I'm a quite fit male in my early 30s).

As someone who has run many, many marathons and as a kid found myself attending many marathons to watch my Dad run; you're right, they aren't the most captivating thing to watch as a spectator. I've always found it to be a combination of people watching (in the crowd) and socializing with others; and around the time you think someone you are there to watch will pass you pay attention to the race itself.

Finally, someone was able to conduct the test similar to the one I discussed in the original post and the results are quite telling...

Investigative journalist Russ Baker and Dave Lindorff chronicle their test on Baker's site WhoWhatWhy.com

The parameters of WhoWhatWhy's test were identical to the parameters established by the consensus of our discussion in this thread (right down to the weight being 30 pounds):

After getting a calculation that a quart of black powder weighs about two pounds (a very general measurement, because the compound changes weight according to the humidity, and can be loosely or densely packed like any powder), and testing a bag of small nails to find that they weigh about six pounds per quart, and after weighing the pot itself, we found that the whole contraption, fully loaded with four to five quarts of powder, two quarts’ worth of nails and BBs, and a battery and ignition device, would weigh about 30 lbs. So we put a sufficient number of exercise weight plates into our container, shut the lid, and tried carrying it in two backpacks similar in construction to the ones on the two brothers’ backs.

WhoWhatWhy has a detailed set of photos at the site which I link to below which illustrate one of their findings:

If you look carefully at the first set of photos, showing the surveillance photo of Dzhokhar Tsarnaev and the model wearing a similar pack containing the loaded pot, both packs being slung over the right shoulder using the right strap only, you can see a dramatic difference. There are stress wrinkles under the jacket of the right image on the model, caused by the 30-lb. weight pulling downward, but Dzhokhar’s jacket can be seen to be completely smooth under the strap. His pack is clearly extremely light on his shoulder (which may be why he’s not wearing it slung over both shoulders). As well, you can see that the weight of the pot, pulling down and outward in the model’s bag on the right, is causing a downward sloping of the top of the backpack, and is also causing many vertical stress lines on the face of the bag itself. Dzhokhar’s bag, however, is flat across the top, indicating no such downward pulling force, and it does not exhibit any downward wrinkles on its side. Whatever he is carrying, it is clearly not a 30-lb., or even a 20-lb. cylinder.

In regard to the backpack Tamerlan is alleged to have placed a pressure cooker bomb, WhoWhatWhy notes this finding:

Moving to Tamerlan Tsarnaev, check out the model’s slightly larger pack, which like Tamerlan’s is being worn with both straps over the shoulders. Again, the pack on the right, containing the loaded pot, is causing obvious wrinkles on the winter coat where the straps are bearing down on a small section of padded coat. Once again the weight of the straps of the shoulder— this time 15 lbs. per strap—can be seen causing prominent wrinkling on the winter coat worn by the model underneath the straps. The downward sloping of the face of the backpack, and also the vertical stress wrinkles are prominent and clearly visible also. In the video surveillance photo of Tamerlan, however, his coat can be seen to be unwrinkled under the straps, and there are again no vertical stress lines on the face of his pack. Again, it is hard to imagine a 30 or even a 20-lb. weight in the bottom of that pack.

I must say that the findings are quite interesting and surprised me; I think the test was done in an ethical, rational manner with controlled parameters and the findings raise more questions than answers.

I'd be interesting in your thoughts on the article:
Official Story Has Odd Wrinkles: A Pack Of Questions About The Boston Bombing Backpacks
whowhatwhy.com...

Also, did anyone happen to catch this week's episode of the PBS show NOVA titled "Manhunt - Boston Bombers"?

In the episode the voice over guy (who happens to be the episode's director/executive producer Miles O'Brien) states that White Hat Guy is seen in the unreleased video "leaving a backpack on the sidewalk not far from the second detonation site," Did you catch that? "NOT FAR FROM the second detonation site." If it's "not far from the second detonation site", then it is NOT the second detonation site.

Picture of backpack and brand here in link also other useful info

allthingsforum1.blogspot.com.es...

InnocentDjahar
Picture of backpack and brand here in link also other useful info

allthingsforum1.blogspot.com.es...

Thanks for sharing that!

Look forward to your thoughts on this and other aspects of the case.