Political Discrimination on ATS

reply to post by zeeon


What conspiracy exists in a vacuum outside the reach of politics, science, art, media, and culture? All of those topics are all connected, and any conspiracy is going to touch one or more of those subjects.

Is your trance music a conspiracy?

Originally posted by muse7
One of the main reasons I enjoy coming on ATS is because I know that not a lot of people will agree with my "liberal" views. I know that 90% of the people on the ATS political forums are conservative/republican. Honestly it would be boring to be on a website where the majority of people agreed with me.

i disagree with almost EVERYTHING you say in threads i participate in..but this point i completely agree with..

consistent consensus is dreadfully boring...

Originally posted by unb3k44n7
Biased views and discrimination against liberals -

Poppycock.

ATS isn't right wing. ATS isn't left wing.
ATS is anti-lie and exposes conspiracies .. by anyone and everyone.
Which means that ATS is anti-whatever-administration-is-in-office-at-the-time.

During Bush43 years, it was all anti-Bush postings.
That didn't make ATS discriminatory against Conservatives.
During Obama years, it is all anti-Obama postings.
That doesn't make ATS discriminatory against Liberals.

ETA: If you attack a belief as a realm of idiocy you are in effect attacking the intelligence of anyone who identifies with that that belief. There is a big difference between saying "Pat Robertson sucks" and "Pat Robertson sucks and you would have to be a moron to believe otherwise".

edit on 5/13/2013 by Slugworth because: (no reason given)

Totally agree with the rest of your post. If I just may make a point from your parting shot here. You can argue with the right about policy they have arguments in return, however when they wish to impose ideology and Biblical teachings upon the electorate they have no argument as they shift responsibility for the policy to some figure shrouded in mystery whom you are never allowed to question over motives or possibly debilitating, even catastrophic, consequences.

The best example I can think of is the abstinence only form of sexual education despite all the figures showing that it leads to more of the problems it seeks to avoid. Hence for the passionate rational mind it is easy to throw the term loony about, but make no mistake I might find many of their aims and methods to verge on lunacy I fully understand the cold psychotic minds behind it. It's lunacy to us but it is the height of intelligence to psychopaths because it gets them what they want. More importantly it gets them what they think they need, a damaged mind is not always the best judge of that.

Sadly from that sort of position it is easy to project the thought of 'mad as a hatter', to everything said and I think I bring myself back into line with your post with that.

Sorry in editing it I missed the Posters handle. This was in reply to Slugworth, sorry mista will get it right next time.

reply to post by goldentorch

when they wish to impose ideology and Biblical teachings upon the electorate...

impose.....I see this word thrown around constantly and I just don't get it. In what way is anyone imposing anything on anyone? If your school board is pushing abstinence education it does not mean it is being imposed on you. It means that lawfully appointed or elected people made a decision to do this. If you don't like it you can vote them or their bosses out of office. If you can't vote them out then you are in the minority. If you are in the minority and your belief is the one being taught over the protests of the majority wouldn't you then be the one who is imposing ideology upon the majority?

...they have no argument as they shift responsibility for the policy to some figure shrouded in mystery whom you are never allowed to question over motives or possibly debilitating, even catastrophic, consequences.

If they have no argument it should be easy enough to defeat the policy. Why do you think you are not allowed to question a position that is rooted in religious belief? What debilitating or catastrophic consequences are you afraid of?

Originally posted by Slugworth
reply to post by goldentorch

 

when they wish to impose ideology and Biblical teachings upon the electorate...

impose.....I see this word thrown around constantly and I just don't get it. In what way is anyone imposing anything on anyone? If your school board is pushing abstinence education it does not mean it is being imposed on you. It means that lawfully appointed or elected people made a decision to do this. If you don't like it you can vote them or their bosses out of office. If you can't vote them out then you are in the minority. If you are in the minority and your belief is the one being taught over the protests of the majority wouldn't you then be the one who is imposing ideology upon the majority?

...they have no argument as they shift responsibility for the policy to some figure shrouded in mystery whom you are never allowed to question over motives or possibly debilitating, even catastrophic, consequences.

If they have no argument it should be easy enough to defeat the policy. Why do you think you are not allowed to question a position that is rooted in religious belief? What debilitating or catastrophic consequences are you afraid of?

The idea of there being a God is the ideology that does not allow you to question, so any secular decision made with the backing of religious ideology then puts itself beyond question, if you are someone denied the education or methods to avoid pregnancy that can be fairly catastrophic. The teaching of creationism is catastrophic for biology, anthropology and all of the attendant sciences. The young earth side of creationism is catastrophic for geography and geology, even conservation,as trends can be important. The idea of religious tests for public office is catastrophic for civic responsibilities and the means to express them as well as a gross violation of human rights, as well as the idea of extra judicial punishments for things only wrong in some peoples belief systems, hell for eternity anyone? Catastrophic. The idea your belief system is the only view, catastrophic for democracy.

You don't state your views on school boards imposing, in the example we're using, these non sciences but the effects last for years. The imposition of ignorance upon young minds is the grossest imposition of all

There is a cycle to politics, how many young lives will be hampered before the board gets round to altering it? That imposition that America was founded as a Christian nation, it is viewed as a nation founded by people that were under such religious ideas in Europe and did the best to prevent a Theocracy being formed again.

reply to post by goldentorch

The idea of there being a God is the ideology that does not allow you to question, so any secular decision made with the backing of religious ideology then puts itself beyond question

This is only true if you believe in the theology. You are free to reject the theology, and even oppose it actively if you wish. If you think it is creeping into school curriculum you can go to the school board, speak against it, rally opposition to it, and probably shoot it down legally if necessary. If you were not allowed to do this then it would be fair to say that the belief was being imposed on you.

if you are someone denied the education or methods to avoid pregnancy that can be fairly catastrophic. The teaching of creationism is catastrophic for biology, anthropology and all of the attendant sciences. The young earth side of creationism is catastrophic for geography and geology, even conservation,as trends can be important.

The role of a school in teaching sex to children is debatable. You are assuming that your position is the correct one when obviously there are many who disagree. I'm not saying that you are wrong, and in fact I agree that abstinence education is a bad idea, but abstinence education is not inherently religious in nature If a community wants it as policy and cannot have it because it bothers you isn't that the very definition of imposing your belief?

Regarding creationism and the young earth stuff: Which public school is currently teaching this as part of a science curriculum in the US? Some schools do teach a critical view of evolution. I think every school should do this. Accepting a scientific theory as a fact transforms it from science to dogma. Students should be taught to be critical of every theory. It is the essence of what science is.

The idea of religious tests for public office is catastrophic for civic responsibilities and the means to express them as well as a gross violation of human rights

If any public office has a religious test it would be a violation of Article 6 of the constitution. Where is this happening?

I see no evidence of imposition of belief in these examples .

Originally posted by dave_welch
I have never noticed political discrimination here, but I have notice an almost non-existent middle ground. If you support gun rights, you're a conservative gun nut, if you gay marriage, you're a libtard.

I have come to avoid posting in anything political, because I'm tired of being accused of being one or the other.

Is there nobody else who's in the middle?

I'm largely in the middle, but on some issues I'm more conservative than the most rightwingnut on the planet. On other issues, "progressive" and "libtard" doesn't even come close to my ideology.

imo the political discrimination comes from the marginalization of members with the "people like you" designation; using the old number 18 to try and shore up a losing argument. Insults work very well in some instances when trying to get your opponent emotionally charged. It's a common tactic used in many threads besides the political ones. imo it seems to be getting much worse with ATS swinging to a more youthful, toughguy conservative, demographic; especially evident when school lets out for the summer.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I seldom even report ugly behavior in the threads I participate in anymore. I just leave...

I don't feel a part of the ATS community anymore; but who cares?

reply to post by unb3k44n7


thank you for the thread. I agree discrimination is rife on ats and we are all capable of it.. I see a lot of racism on ats that i do not think is acceptable..Evidently those that write the terms and conditions think it is fine..

s/f)

ATS may be entertainment for some, but in actuality it is a community - designed for discussion and debate. It's also a microcosm of society as a whole so anything happening in society you will see here on ATS. Our society has descended into partisanship and debate has all but been destroyed in many ways. This is not all inclusive, many of us can rise above this and do, but a lot of the time discussion has simply become childish bickering, labeling, and name calling. This may not be discrimination to some of you, but it is abusive.

I've experienced it myself and witnessed it countless times. I often have to come to the defense of people I disagree with politically because I'm sickened by the behavior I see. Let me preface this by saying this is in no way excluded to one side, but just my personal experience.

I'm a conservative libertarian to the core but I deliberately stay away from and strongly dislike those who claim to be conservatives and speak for them - like Fox News, or conservative radio types like Rush or Hannity or Savage. The type of behavior I see illustrated by these people is not intellectualism, it is bullying fascist behavior. I hate the thought of being lumped in with these people. They are always blaming everything on the liberals or the Muslims and I take offense to these things, as a conservative, because I find it to be outrageous. The thought that if you're a liberal you cannot be a patriot is ludicrous. These people always have an excuse to cover their butts when they're called out for the fascist bully's that they are.

Point is, I see this on ATS quite often, and I see it in real life from people who surround themselves with this propaganda. They mimic this behavior because it has now become the social norm. And as I stated, it is perpetrated by both sides, but as a conservative I take strong issue with it. Problem is I seem to be in the minority. Someone as strongly conservative as I am has been labeled and abused, called a liberal or socialist, simply for disagreeing with the "mainstream" views pushed forth by these charlatans who attempt to speak for us all. I agree with the OPs sentiments and I think some of you are confused as to what real debate and discussion is. People shouldn't have to develop thick skin to name calling or abuse. If you can handle someone disagreeing with you you're good in my book.

I think ATS should be conscious of this behavior and call it our or simply ignore it when encountering it. It has no place in our society and it has no place here on ATS. Plainly put, it is destructive. And both sides are doing it, that's the point. It is dividing us to the point we no longer trust someone simply because of minor differences like political ideology or religious practice, when we truly have more in common then we do differences.

S+F

One of the fastest ways to get yourself banned on ATS is being an outspoken liberal.

Example...if you make a claim that Conservatives tend to be racist, and you back that up with sources....banned.

However, if you make a thread claiming all liberals are racist based on your own personal opinion...it get's tons of stars and flags and is left up for all the Conservatives to jump into the thread and openly bash liberals and call them racist.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nevermind the fact that this is pure politcal baiting...the same rules don't apply for Conservatives as they do for Liberals here on ATS. It is no secret most of the active mods are Conservative.

reply to post by tg13xr


It is no secret most of the active mods are Conservative.





What a crap generalization...if any label is to be given to the mods here, it would be forgiving, at least in my mind.


I still find it amazing I haven't been banned yet. As for you - sign up today just to throw this fodder out there..?


Your opinion doesn't matter...get back over to GLP.

reply to post by unb3k44n7


Not personally direct at you, so don't take it that way.


Thin skinned political commentators don't last very well. If you are so fragile in your own political beliefs that a unknown person on a message board riles you, then maybe you should not visit said board. People's comments to me about politics roll off of me like water off a beavers pelt. I like spirited debate, it should never get to personal put-downs of the other debater. Some of the best threads I've participated in have been with people with diametrically opposing views. You CAN agree to disagree and even support the right of the other person to disagree. In fact,some of the people I respect here the most, have political positions that I totally disagree with.

Originally posted by tg13xr
One of the fastest ways to get yourself banned on ATS is being an outspoken liberal.

Example...if you make a claim that Conservatives tend to be racist, and you back that up with sources....banned.

However, if you make a thread claiming all liberals are racist based on your own personal opinion...it get's tons of stars and flags and is left up for all the Conservatives to jump into the thread and openly bash liberals and call them racist.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nevermind the fact that this is pure politcal baiting...the same rules don't apply for Conservatives as they do for Liberals here on ATS. It is no secret most of the active mods are Conservative.

edit on 13-5-2013 by tg13xr because: (no reason given)

Really? I could contend almost the same thing but in a totally opposite way. I'm pretty sure it's pretty 50/50 when it comes down to Liberals and Conservatives or whatever enlightened term you want to use, bashing each other. I think you are seeing and hearing what you want to hear in regards to political debate here. Most the of the time when people blame others for debate results, it's the weakness of their own debating skills.

Just saying........

reply to post by tg13xr

...if you make a thread claiming all liberals are racist based on your own personal opinion...it get's tons of stars and flags and is left up for all the Conservatives to jump into the thread and openly bash liberals and call them racist.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nevermind the fact that this is pure politcal baiting...the same rules don't apply for Conservatives as they do for Liberals here on ATS.

It is no secret most of the active mods are Conservative.

Really? Then who was taking all those points from me and pulling so many of my conservative posts over the past 2 years??

reply to post by tg13xr


Majority speaks, currently ATS majority is conservative. Mod indirectly "cater" aka be less offended by conservative post to keep member count up!

Plus, i shouldn't directly say mods do it, but its work likes this... since majority is repub/conservs, a liberal post they hate will get lots of "ALERTS!" thus, higher chance for mods to check the post, and due to higher hits, the higher chance for post to be criticized and picked at by different mods and thus higher chance for deletion.

Most liberals on ATS, are not crazy about politics(compared to the republicans), so they don''t bother. If they were, it would be pro-obama or "conservatives are this and that" posts would show up 3-4x a day, like it does for anti-obama, anti-democratic/liberal propaganda.

Greetings.

I think its too much to ask for a group of some 500000 de-identified humans to work as a team to solve problems.

Humans work together only when their fate is tied together, an impossibility on this website and not something any of us want I think.

Since everyone is deidentified here it is fruitless to conceive of a universal problem solving accord.

I totally agree with your premise though.

Originally posted by pavil

Originally posted by tg13xr
One of the fastest ways to get yourself banned on ATS is being an outspoken liberal.

Example...if you make a claim that Conservatives tend to be racist, and you back that up with sources....banned.

However, if you make a thread claiming all liberals are racist based on your own personal opinion...it get's tons of stars and flags and is left up for all the Conservatives to jump into the thread and openly bash liberals and call them racist.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Nevermind the fact that this is pure politcal baiting...the same rules don't apply for Conservatives as they do for Liberals here on ATS. It is no secret most of the active mods are Conservative.

edit on 13-5-2013 by tg13xr because: (no reason given)

Really? I could contend almost the same thing but in a totally opposite way. I'm pretty sure it's pretty 50/50 when it comes down to Liberals and Conservatives or whatever enlightened term you want to use, bashing each other. I think you are seeing and hearing what you want to hear in regards to political debate here. Most the of the time when people blame others for debate results, it's the weakness of their own debating skills.

Just saying........

Sure, you can have that opinion.

Now show me a thread that is calling all Conservatives racist that has been allowed to stay up for days?

A better question is do you think it is right that this thread is still up and it is allowed for the Conservatives on this site to call all liberals racist?

reply to post by FlyersFan

This is most of us here,I hated Bush/Cheney because of their rediculous efforts to hit Iran.I admit to being extremely intolerant to politically correct statements as they aren't true to our culture and I couldn't care less about how you expect me to behave.
I am also extremely protective of my family being combat arms military.You may have seen a guy called "Donahue" call me a murderer, while that may be his opinion,it wasn't what was being discussed and it wasn't effectively conversational.Why am I a murderer to you ,explain your logic but if it is just a barb you throw ,expect to get jumped.I NEED information on the world I listen to every one first then devise a conclusion.
I can but assume I am indeed one of the vaunted right I can but say as I believe.Old fashioned as I am.
I do know not all Muslims are against us and say so where ever I hear blanket statements otherwise.I know we have been lied to by our own and a great deal beyond this forum of attrocites that have been done in our name.I once had a nice lady on this forum express great fear for such fervor against ALL MUSLIMS and I was profoundly embarrassed.I could not help her in person but I assured her I was indeed a US vet and we don't hunt people and should any harm come to her she too is protected by the same laws I am.
(If you're reading this hello ladies, be good and happy)

reply to post by unb3k44n7


who or what is being discriminated?? I don't see it