Pregnant Mom Of 4 Sentenced To Prison For Refusing To Serve In Iraq

Originally posted by 19KTankCommander
When she became pregnet she would of been counsoled by the Military Doctors like everyone else that gets pregnet.

She didn't get pregnant while she was in the military. She had two kids before joining, then deserted, and got pregnant three more times. The headline is referring to her fifth pregnancy, the child she is carrying right now.

Becomeing a conciensous(sp) objector would invole seeing the chapline, to make an evaluation on her and the family advocace would as well.

She was never a conscientious objector. A CO objects to all war as a matter of conscience. This person did not object to war, she only objected to being deployed. Her argument in court was that her husband threatened to leave her and take the children. Her kid let slip that she was simply scared. She didn't argue that she was a conscientious objector, or should have been treated as one. That was just a line she used for the benefit of the Canadian anti-war group that supported her during her exile.

Originally posted by sean
Ok lets forget about pregnancy and lets forget about AWOL and talk about desertion. And why is she a deserter??

Here is the Manual for Courts-Martial. Enjoy.

reply to post by ThreeBears


Oh, . . So, .. Your Not American .. . ?

You read like your Un-American as hell.

Way to go to bat for the Criminal. If you were offered the chance to take her place would you?

By the way, .. Where the hell does rape come onto the picture or is that something you fabricated?
Because I didn't read that anywhere in the story.

In addition, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH MORALS OR OATHS, Although it does speak Mountains of her Character.

It is about a Contractual Obligation. She BREACHED her end of the bargain. And don't give that crap that they ( the Government ) did it first. I read absolutely Nothing that her Lawyer reviewed the Contract and offered Counsel before she signed it.

How many times have you Breached a Contract in your lifetime? And what was the Consequence?

I would say that ANY input you could give here is Not going to do Any Good Considering that she is Already in prison doing her time for which I am Glad.

If you want to help I suggest you go out and collect bottles and cans and take donations and run a HUGE campaign to detour Incompetent children from signing contracts. Because that is what this is all about.

Like I said before " Conscientious Objectors do Not willfully Join the Military, They are Drafted".

Originally posted by ChuckNasty
Desertion is another level of AWOL. You get tagged AWOL before you are deemed a deserter.

Desertion is another level of AWOL the way homicide is another level of battery. A deserter intends to remain away permanently or avoid hazardous duty. An AWOL simply isn't where they're supposed to be. It can take some time to determine that someone has deserted, during which they may be presumed AWOL, but if they deserted they were a deserter from the first day they missed formation. Just as a murderer begins a murder with the first blow, not the last.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by ChuckNasty
Desertion is another level of AWOL. You get tagged AWOL before you are deemed a deserter.

Desertion is another level of AWOL the way homicide is another level of battery. A deserter intends to remain away permanently or avoid hazardous duty. An AWOL simply isn't where they're supposed to be. It can take some time to determine that someone has deserted, during which they may be presumed AWOL, but if they deserted they were a deserter from the first day they missed formation. Just as a murderer begins a murder with the first blow, not the last.

Not saying you have no idea what your are talking about...so I'll let the facts do it for me.

Airforce AFI 36-2911 Link

Paragraph 1.3 states:

1.3. When Unauthorized Absence Begins and Ends. An unauthorized absence starts when a member is absent from where he or she is ordered or otherwise required to be present. For an unauthorized absence of 24 consecutive hours or less, classify as ―failure to go‖ instead of ―absence without leave‖ (AWOL). For an unauthorized absence of more than 24 hours and less than 30 days, classify as AWOL. Example: If a member is required to be at work at 0730 on Monday but does not report to work, the member will not be reported as AWOL until Tuesday at 0730 (after 24 hours of unauthorized absence), with the effective date and time of Monday 0730. An unauthorized absence ends when the absentee or deserter returns to military control.

Paragraph 1.5 States:

1.5. Classify a member as a deserter who:
1.5.1. Has been AWOL for 30 consecutive days. If the absence lasts through 2400 on the 30th consecutive day, change the absentee's status to deserter at 0001 on the 31st day (on the 10th day during times of emergency or war declared by the President or Congress). Note: Member does not have to be placed in AWOL status prior to being placed in deserter status if the member meets the criteria in paragraph 1.5.2.

-CN

Edit: The Army Pub R630-10, Chapter 2 on Page 3 States the same time critiera...but in a few lines instead of a paragraph or two like the AirForce.

Originally posted by ShadellacZumbrum
reply to post by ThreeBears

 

Oh, . . So, .. Your Not American .. . ?

You read like your Un-American as hell.

Way to go to bat for the Criminal. If you were offered the chance to take her place would you?

By the way, .. Where the hell does rape come onto the picture or is that something you fabricated?
Because I didn't read that anywhere in the story.

In addition, this has NOTHING TO DO WITH MORALS OR OATHS, Although it does speak Mountains of her Character.

It is about a Contractual Obligation. She BREACHED her end of the bargain. And don't give that crap that they ( the Government ) did it first. I read absolutely Nothing that her Lawyer reviewed the Contract and offered Counsel before she signed it.

How many times have you Breached a Contract in your lifetime? And what was the Consequence?

I would say that ANY input you could give here is Not going to do Any Good Considering that she is Already in prison doing her time for which I am Glad.

If you want to help I suggest you go out and collect bottles and cans and take donations and run a HUGE campaign to detour Incompetent children from signing contracts. Because that is what this is all about.

Like I said before " Conscientious Objectors do Not willfully Join the Military, They are Drafted".

You Know, YOU ARE RIGHT,

Why not start here

FEMALES OF AMERICA

READ

DO NOT EVER EVER EVER JOIN THE RAPATARY

THEY'LL NEVER HAVE YOUR BACK...BUT THEY'LL HAVE YOU ON YOUR BACK, A LOT.

And UNTIL UNCLE SAM SAYS "" BE A WHORE FOR UNCLE SAM"" THEY LIE, THOSE CONTRACTS ARE FRAUDULENT! BEWARE! HOW BOUT SOME TRUTH...heck it's Not even about WAR, BE INFORMED. TRUTH TIME. READ FOR YOURSELF...

www.reformer.com...

Or, ony like five second sound bytes, then Listen

www.npr.org...

Want more, there's TONS....

Until there is JUSTICE for EACH of these BETRAYED, maybe the US could take ole Shadellacs advice, what was it, snip their nuts balls off,

Yea think that was it because she got pregnant, well ironic that SOME of these women are getting pregnant by these Rapes, too...wow,

Yea, YOU RIGHT BUDDY, women of AmeriRapa land NEED to BE INFORMED. And NOT sign up at all,

I agree with you in that, though I think, they should take it way farther than that, but That's OK, we can just begin by

EDUCATING....WHY MILITARY BAD IDEA DO NOT JOIN.

It should be put in HUGE BANNERS too, heck, they should do COMMERCIALS, you know like the ones that plaster all the HERO crap, why not ADD to that,

LIKE RAPE? WHY JOIN THE GOOD OLE ARMED FORCES, WHERE YA DON'T HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE ENEMY TO DO IT

Now THAT'S AN AMERICAN INSTITUTION YOU CAN BE PROUD OF!

Originally posted by ThreeBears
OK one, it's not a Rant, it's Indignation at the HYPOCRISY that is Rampant IN our Society,

It is the very definition of a rant.

1: to talk in a noisy, excited, or declamatory manner
2: to scold vehemently
3: to utter in a bombastic declamatory fashion

Typing words in all capital letters is the internet equivalent to shouting loudly. But I'm sure you know that.

PRIVILEGED IMPERIALISTS
MILITARY COMPLEX THAT HYPOCRITES SUPPORT LIKE THE GOOD NAZIS THEY ARE!
support your own RAPING YOUR OWN
Betraying your OWN MOTHERS DAUGHTERS SISTERS Of THIS NATION
That's BABYLON, with the WHORE JEZEBEL.
SACRIFICING their Children for their LUSTS

The above is a load of overblown, bombastic nonsense, aka ranting.

No matter how many times you repeat this idiocy, it is still irrelevant to the fact that she voluntarily joined the US Army during a time when it was well known to be involved in combat operations.

She accepted the money, training, and other benefits in return for agreeing to serve for a set time period wherever the US Army needed her.

She got scared for her life while she was serving in a war zone. Any claims to have had an attack of conscience was merely an attempt to bolster her petition to stay in Canada. She was never threatened by her fellow soldiers as is evident from the fact that she has never claimed to have been subject to that.

As a 30-year vet of my country's military, I am quite happy to see her gone from my country.

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by sean
Ok lets forget about pregnancy and lets forget about AWOL and talk about desertion. And why is she a deserter??

Here is the Manual for Courts-Martial. Enjoy.

Well it sounds like PSTD to me with being to stressful mentally to deal with little children coming in and asking why they killed their mommy and daddy. it pushed her over the edge. That's typical of how it always goes though. I don't care why they did it, just that they did it! I guess witnessing the horrors of war isn't enough punishment.

Originally posted by sean

Originally posted by FurvusRexCaeli

Originally posted by sean
Ok lets forget about pregnancy and lets forget about AWOL and talk about desertion. And why is she a deserter??

Here is the Manual for Courts-Martial. Enjoy.

Well it sounds like PSTD to me with being to stressful mentally to deal with little children coming in and asking why they killed their mommy and daddy. it pushed her over the edge. That's typical of how it always goes though. I don't care why they did it, just that they did it! I guess witnessing the horrors of war isn't enough punishment.

OOO and here I was thinking this is what they signed up for! Man I feel like a dope!

reply to post by ThreeBears


Please EXPLAIN the rape thing. I just don't get it.

Where did you hear that at?

Because I have Only ever heard of a couple of cases of that.

AND when you do the Math, the Numbers are within an acceptable parameters. I mean 100 women being raped out of say 100,000 is certainly a decent manageable number.

That means it is constrained to less than 1/10 of a Percent. So what is your problem?

I just don't get it.

Originally posted by MojaveBurning
Well, people may not like what I have to say on this, but I don't really care. The fact of the matter is, she signed a contract. It's her own fault that she didn't know the policies, not the chaplain's for not telling her. Just for the heck of it, I googled this phrase: "I'm pregnant in the usmc do I have to deploy". I found my answer on the very first page. She could have too. The deployment would be deferred until 6 months post-delivery.

This woman did the wrong thing, and I feel that she deserves her punishment. She essentially ran away from her contract, and that's wrong. You don't just sign a contract and then abandon it, for any reason. The military would have worked with her, had she gone through the appropriate channels I feel that she would have found an acceptable resolution. Now, she gets to have her baby behind bars.

For the record, I am a mother, against the wars in Iraq/Afghanistan, AND my husband and stepdaughter are both Marines.

I get this side of the argument too as an Army Brat raised by a career officer who saw action in both WWII and Korea - admin in Viet Nam. We had these talks often about following orders, respect for the office/uniform not necessarily the man in the office/uniform - but my Dad did refer me to "Judgement at Nuremberg" on this one and I will do the same to any readers who know the world and our personal actions in it are not Black and White.

The judges on trial in the trial depicted in "Judgement at Nuremberg" were following the Law of the Land when handing down their genocidal decisions. I won't give away the story but it didn't matter that they were following Law. The Nurenburg Trials set a precedent of a higher order, if you will, a moral and ethical order, that must be obeyed.

Another, more recent, film that brings up this important theme is "Crimson Tide". This film is probably more accessable to our younger members then "Judgement at Nuremberg". I do recommend them both as this is a very important subject.

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by ooYODAoo

 

I had you figured by your second post. Thanks for confirming.

Disgruntled military ditch digger. Guess what, we all dig ditches. Just here in America that red, white, and blue represents something.

Thank God my country hasn't had to experience a ravished world, and one of those reasons is because of the military's dedication and of course the civilian support, innocence, and love makes you fight harder.

edit on 11-5-2013 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

I'd like to draw attention to your 'avatar' - it's sick and twisted you know - or maybe you don't.

Yoda - hohaw brings up a very good point - Universal Public Service after High School for all citizens - serve in the Military, serve in a conservation corp, serve as a school crossing guard - but everyone has to serve - two years - no college for anyone until that Public Service requirement is met. And it has to be done in another state from your home state - no staying at mom and dads. Everybody in barracks making minimum wage serving their country in some capacity. Many countries have that and it makes better citizens.

Originally posted by votan
Looks like a clear case of stupid bitch.. I feel sorry for the children though.. It sucks that they have a mother who makes bad decisions.

Think their pops is no genius also...

I am still amazed that an army person wouldn't think about getting legal advice...before committing a felony.

In the Chair Force, we encourage members to seek legal counseling when we give them a letter of counseling... I've seen airmen get out of a DUI from simple legal advice...even the UCMJ couldn't touch him.

The Army mentality is mind bottling.

reply to post by FurvusRexCaeli


Thanks for the manual, don't need it any more even though I am fimilary with it, used it plenty of times.

reply to post by ThreeBears


I didn't rape anyone,in fact I would enjoy physically harming such a person.I was how ever abused and abandoned by my ex- wife.I got over it of course and just married someone as hard as me.
Raping isn't all that common in front lines.Adultery is still practiced ,how many lying bitches leave their men out in the wilderness like mine did?
I don't know, I have better things to think about.
Is there corruption yes is rape rampant and a constant thing in every unit everywhere?
No ,because men like me would kick the s##t out of them.
I would guess you have been assaulted and you too have your own PTSD.
That is no reason to blind yourself like that.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by ThreeBears

 

I didn't rape anyone,in fact I would enjoy physically harming such a person.I was how ever abused and abandoned by my ex- wife.I got over it of course and just married someone as hard as me.
Raping isn't all that common in front lines.Adultery is still practiced ,how many lying bitches leave their men out in the wilderness like mine did?
I don't know, I have better things to think about.
Is there corruption yes is rape rampant and a constant thing in every unit everywhere?
No ,because men like me would kick the s##t out of them.
I would guess you have been assaulted and you too have your own PTSD.
That is no reason to blind yourself like that.

Heck yea, you hit it smack on the nail.
My unit has not ever had a case of rape, though your right about one thing, adulty is a huge issue.
The biggest thing is that this thread is not even about rape!! This "Poster" came into this thread screaming to hell with all men, especially men in uniform and talking about every single woman in the armed forces get raped.I have three soldier beneath me as I am a team leader and they are all females, under 21 an fresh out of AIT, an the one thing I tell them is, "if anybody ever messes with you, you come get me, nobody messes with MY soldiers".
Anyways, this female breached her contract and ran. She deserted her nation and the people she swore an oath to protect.
She did'nt place the mission first.
She accepted defeat.
She quit.
She left her fallen comrades.
'nuff said.

reply to post by Arnie123

It's fun entertainment,but you gotta "wall to wall" the SOB carefully these days Progressives will protect him.

reply to post by gosseyn


She was an IDIOT. There is FREE legal counsel for soldiers, through the local JAG office, and she could have gone there, and sought legal options, instead of deserting. She wasn't made to join the military, and took a voluntary oath. She chose to break that oath. That was the wrong thing to do. It also isn't a chaplain's place to offer legal advice. She knew fleeing the country was a crime, and punishable with prison time, and she chose to do that anyway. If she couldn't handle the situation, she should not have joined. I thought about going active Reserves at one time (after being IRR), for some extra money, and decided NOT to, when told I would, as a single mom, have to sign legal custody of my daughter over if there was a deployment. I chose my daughter over the extra money. This woman chose to enlist, and then decided to back out illegally from her obligation. Her mistake, her sentence.