Pregnant Mom Of 4 Sentenced To Prison For Refusing To Serve In Iraq

Originally posted by Amanda5
reply to post by gosseyn

 

I find the article that is the feature of this thread to be one of a growing daily example of society. I am not surprised but I am saddened. The woman at the heart of this issue is a heroine.

What I do not understand is, if she has the support of the Canadian politicians and Archbishop Desmond Tutu as a Nobel Peace Prize recipient - why don't they have any power to defend her situation???

She was given legal representation and from what I have read the legal practitioner presented her case properly. This is another example of 'the law' being inadequate and far far far from balanced.

Imagine this - if every soldier who had committed suicide had acted as this heroine did - would they have been better off - sitting in jail or completely removed from the misery of their existence???? Hard to tell right now!

Imagine this - when every objector, for whatever reason, whether already enlisted or still a civilian - stood their ground and stated, as this brave lady has - "I cannot shoot at Children or be a risk to my fellow soldiers, so I am objecting..." - can you see the chaos that would be caused????

Imagine no one wanting to enlist because they did not want to shoot at Children let alone innocent civilians living in their own land just trying to go about their lives. What would the government do - put everyone in jail????

This lady is a heroine for being honest and true to her soul. I keep recalling the words of, who was it, George Orwell - People who speak the truth will be seen as traitors ot the state - or similar. More power to this lady and all others like her.

Much Peace...to the people killed in senseless wars...

No, this soldier is no heroine at all. This female is a deserter. She deserted her post in a time of war. This female soldier failed her duty, her battle buddies, her country and most important of all, her fellow country men, citizens of the US. She is lucky that she did'nt get the death penalty....sound harsh? Look up the AR on desertion during a time of war, it should be under AR 27-10 military justice, under one of the articles.
She violated the general orders that this soldier has learned since basic training,mainly two of them.
General Order #1
I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved.
General Order #2
I will obey my special orders and perform all my duties in a military manner.

Yet another thread posted with a misleading Title to promote an agenda.

This is an all volunteer army. She went AWOL.

The OP obviously intended to cast the military in a bad light. To take a story and twist it in such a way is despicable.

reply to post by Arnie123


You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that but this woman is a heroine. You are stating what you know and have been trained to believe.

The woman at the centre of discussion within this thread - signed up and believed - just like you and then she learned the truth. She explained her reasons and that is never AWOL. My understanding is that the acronym AWOL represents Absent Without Leave. She stated she could not shoot at Children and knew she was a risk to her fellow soldiers with that mindset - absent without leave - no way. Maybe technically to you but she stated her mindset and stayed true to what she had learned through first hand experience and that takes courage - real courage.

You are staying true to what you have been indoctrinated to believe - you are quite entitled to that mindset but don't expect everyone to think like you. Not everyone believes in war and I have lost count of the people who have seen action who have stated to me - "War is wrong and there are no winners. War should never happen."

Much Peace...to all the courageous people who deny war...

reply to post by bbracken677


The Military do not need a single thread on this website to cast them in a bad light. Lots of people do not support war of any kind. Lots of people who have never even visited this site do not support any Military.

You are entitled to your opinion but I think it is you who is twisting the purpose of the discussion within this thread.

Much Peace...

Originally posted by gosseyn
(made a search and didn't find this posted)

“I had a huge awakening seeing the war as it truly is: people losing their lives for greed of a nation, and the effects on the soldiers who come back with new problems such as nightmares, anxieties, depression, anger, alcohol abuse, missing limbs and scars from burns. Some don’t come back at all.”

Rivera was troubled by a two-year-old Iraqi girl who came to the base with her family to claim compensation after a bombing by US forces. “She was just petrified,” Rivera explained. “She was crying, but there was no sound, just tears flowing out of her eyes. She was shaking. I have no idea what had happened in her little life. All I know is I wasn’t seeing her: I was seeing my own little girl. I could imagine my daughter being one of those kids throwing rocks at soldiers, because maybe someone she loved had been killed. That Iraqi girl haunts my soul.”

Link

I don't know which comment I could make, this is just disgusting, and stupid, and inhumane and stupid again. Surely when rules are stupid, there should be a way to change them. How is war supposed to stop with these rules and ideologies that lead to these rules, when will we learn as a species ?

If she were a black woman, the O and his team would be on it in a flash. But she a white minority.

Originally posted by crazyewok

Originally posted by gosseyn
(made a search and didn't find this posted)

“I had a huge awakening seeing the war as it truly is: people losing their lives for greed of a nation, and the effects on the soldiers who come back with new problems such as nightmares, anxieties, depression, anger, alcohol abuse, missing limbs and scars from burns. Some don’t come back at all.”

Rivera was troubled by a two-year-old Iraqi girl who came to the base with her family to claim compensation after a bombing by US forces. “She was just petrified,” Rivera explained. “She was crying, but there was no sound, just tears flowing out of her eyes. She was shaking. I have no idea what had happened in her little life. All I know is I wasn’t seeing her: I was seeing my own little girl. I could imagine my daughter being one of those kids throwing rocks at soldiers, because maybe someone she loved had been killed. That Iraqi girl haunts my soul.”

Link

I can see both sides to this.

Thing is she is a volenteer. You sign up to the armed forces willing to do what the politican decide. If you dont like it dont sign up.

Now I get some asigments are sucky but you cant just put your gun down and desert that creates a dangrous situation.

On the otherside if you get what you feel is a moraly wrong order then should you refuse it because otherwise you get tragedys like the Mai Lai massacre.....

Its a difficult one.

Difficult?
How so difficult?

You volunteer, hey you can quit, its a free country right?
Since when does being hired for a job require you to go to jail if you don't want to work there anymore?

They only reason such a punishment is in place is because they KNOW they will ask people to
do immoral acts, and they don't want people to flee.

Originally posted by bbracken677
Yet another thread posted with a misleading Title to promote an agenda.

This is an all volunteer army. She went AWOL.

I thought you said it was a volunteer army?
So she voluntarily left. What's the problem?
How can it be AWOL?

And did AWOL not exist during the conscription days?

Originally posted by FoosM
I thought you said it was a volunteer army?
So she voluntarily left. What's the problem?
How can it be AWOL?

And did AWOL not exist during the conscription days?

Nobody forced her to join the US Army. She voluntarily signed a contract to serve for a specific length of time. In return she received a paycheque, training as a vehicle driver, healthcare for her and her dependents, etc.

By running away to Canada, she was in breach of her contract. Anytime you break a contract, military or civilian, there are penalties.

She wasn't some little girl fresh out of high school. She was a 25 year-old married mother of two when she joined.

reply to post by gosseyn


Shouldn't have volunteered...does she not have a computer or read the news prior to enlisting?

Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by gosseyn

 

What this woman did was abandon her oath and the other mothers and fathers serving their country. Last I checked, you voluntarily sign your life over to Uncle Sam.

The sentence was justified.

What she should have done is to turn her self pity into pride. That she is protecting millions upon millions of baby girls. No, she abandoned her oath to protect the 310 million souls to the best of her ability.

I guess the children of this country didn't matter much, the ones she is protecting or rather was until just abandoned them.

edit on 11-5-2013 by milkyway12 because: (no reason given)

Really, and by Protecting Children here (what an INSULT seriously to ALL children, we cant even Proetct Children from the likes of assholes who Rape and Torture them for TEN YEARS in a House, talk about LIE perpetuation),

And I suppose, Protecting Children here Requires Females in our Armed Service to bend over, spread and be RAPED with Impunity for Demon Scum which Majority of females have to endure for this big ass Demon Lord called America,

OK then, glad we have That fact established. hail Satan.

No, this soldier is no heroine at all. This female is a deserter. She deserted her post in a time of war. This female soldier failed her duty, her battle buddies, her country and most important of all, her fellow country men, citizens of the US. She is lucky that she did'nt get the death penalty....sound harsh? Look up the AR on desertion during a time of war, it should be under AR 27-10 military justice, under one of the articles.
She violated the general orders that this soldier has learned since basic training,mainly two of them.
General Order #1
I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved.
General Order #2
I will obey my special orders and perform all my duties in a military manner.


DESERTER! Really??????

HYPOCRITES!

You want to talk about DESERTION, every ONE of you JERKS have DESERTED our WOMEN in the MILITARY by your Rapes with Impunity, your Demonizing those Women Brave enough to come forward and TELL and then the NERVE of PROMOTING RAPISTS

In EVERY BRANCH

And YOU want to talk about DESERTION?

We aren't talking Rape of Females, Children in enemy lands (NO EXCUSE for THAT WAR CRIME either, not Honorable, NO, WAR CRIME) but oh no,

That's NOT enough, oh no, these Butchers have to RAPE THEIR OWN SISTERS

And you talk DESERTION?

WE should HANG these MEN on POLES, ALL OF THEM!

Originally posted by ThreeBears

No, this soldier is no heroine at all. This female is a deserter. She deserted her post in a time of war. This female soldier failed her duty, her battle buddies, her country and most important of all, her fellow country men, citizens of the US. She is lucky that she did'nt get the death penalty....sound harsh? Look up the AR on desertion during a time of war, it should be under AR 27-10 military justice, under one of the articles.
She violated the general orders that this soldier has learned since basic training,mainly two of them.
General Order #1
I will guard everything within the limits of my post and quit my post only when properly relieved.
General Order #2
I will obey my special orders and perform all my duties in a military manner.


DESERTER! Really??????

HYPOCRITES!

You want to talk about DESERTION, every ONE of you JERKS have DESERTED our WOMEN in the MILITARY by your Rapes with Impunity, your Demonizing those Women Brave enough to come forward and TELL and then the NERVE of PROMOTING RAPISTS

In EVERY BRANCH

And YOU want to talk about DESERTION?

We aren't talking Rape of Females, Children in enemy lands (NO EXCUSE for THAT WAR CRIME either, not Honorable, NO, WAR CRIME) but oh no,

That's NOT enough, oh no, these Butchers have to RAPE THEIR OWN SISTERS

And you talk DESERTION?

WE should HANG these MEN on POLES, ALL OF THEM!

And if THAT isn't bad enough, Then we have THOUSANDS of these women, with SEVERE LIFELONG damage, on our STREETS,

HOMELESS, I KNOW I lived with Several of them in Transitional housing, I've SEEN what this TRAITOR NATION has DONE to their our DAUGHTERS

So some FEW can have their WEALTH, and SHEs a DESERTER???? REALLY???

Women survivors of REAL TRAITORS can't even get CARE in this Land of #, Stuck up TRASH with their flag waving Traitorous hypocrisy,

I hope the lot of them BURN IN HELL

Not just the Butchers aka Military, the ones who KNOW and still choose evil,

But ALL those Materialistic Hypocrites SNOBS in this nation that have ALLOWED this Banality of Evil, to continue and to Flourish, talking the Women who Throw these Daughters off the bus too...so they can parade their Proud asses in their Slave made garments and drive their Chariots from Hell.

Throwing the POOR in the gutters, Sacrificing them to DEMONS

Then having the NERVE to call themselves CHRISTIAN, may they truly BURN in HELL with their Demon God.

Thousands of these women, Rotting away, ABANDONED by so called FREEDOM LOVERS,

Oh HELL NO, not on my watch, will I EVER be Silent about this TREACHERY!!!

reply to post by ThreeBears


You really need to calm down, your hate blinds you. There is no need for your kind of response. Absolutely none.

reply to post by ThreeBears


What a disturbing individual you are..... I feel sorry for you, I really do... I hope you get the psychiatric help that you so desperately need! Have a nice day....

Originally posted by jheated5
reply to post by ThreeBears

 

What a disturbing individual you are..... I feel sorry for you, I really do... I hope you get the psychiatric help that you so desperately need! Have a nice day....

Nice Try, distracting
Wanna Debate The FACTS about this ATROCITY? Well DO YOU?

What's your ANSWER to ALL these WOMEN? Several Newspapers, Special Reports, RECENTLY have Covered this Atrocity,

Are YOU going to TELL THESE

WOMEN

THEY ARE CRAZY?

Might as well, THAT'S what the Chains of Command and the RAPE apologists IMPERIALISTS have been Doing,

Want to Go there? COWARD

Or just label me as Crazy to get TRUTH to SHUT UP,

What, ASHAMED AMERICA?

YOU SHOULD BE, look

Dont Talk about a woman and Scream DESERTION when we have a MILITARY CULTURE RAMPANT

With TREACHERY

AGAINST OUR VERY OWN.

And then attempt to label one Crazy FOR CALLING IT OUT,

Oh Hell no, I'm not that weak, passive female that will run with her head between her legs,

I WANT JUSTICE FOR EVERY ONE OF THESE DAUGHTERS BETRAYED

When WE see THAT

Then, and ONLY then

Does ANY have a Right, to say those who Refuse to serve, are deserters.!

reply to post by ThreeBears


I can't debate facts with someone with such a distorted view of reality.... You're a feminazi, your posts screams it! There was no indication of rape anywhere in this story, or has nothing to do with atrocities of war, deflection of the facts are all you people have....

What about all your BROTHERS that died for you? Oh wait they're all DEMONS!!!! How sick and twisted are you? This is why I advise you to seek professional help, I feel you have some DEMONS of your own in your past you need to take care of with some help....

You want the facts as they pertain to the story, not any other atrocities committed, which this topic was never about..... She signed a contract and breached it.... Plain and simple, there is no conspiracy here... If you sign that contract without foreknowledge of what you're doing, then you are ignorant at the very least!

Originally posted by ThreeBears

Originally posted by jheated5
reply to post by ThreeBears

 

What a disturbing individual you are..... I feel sorry for you, I really do... I hope you get the psychiatric help that you so desperately need! Have a nice day....

Nice Try, distracting
Wanna Debate The FACTS about this ATROCITY? Well DO YOU?

What's your ANSWER to ALL these WOMEN? Several Newspapers, Special Reports, RECENTLY have Covered this Atrocity,

Are YOU going to TELL THESE

WOMEN

THEY ARE CRAZY?

Might as well, THAT'S what the Chains of Command and the RAPE apologists IMPERIALISTS have been Doing,

Want to Go there? COWARD

Or just label me as Crazy to get TRUTH to SHUT UP,

What, ASHAMED AMERICA?

YOU SHOULD BE, look

Dont Talk about a woman and Scream DESERTION when we have a MILITARY CULTURE RAMPANT

With TREACHERY

AGAINST OUR VERY OWN.

And then attempt to label one Crazy FOR CALLING IT OUT,

Oh Hell no, I'm not that weak, passive female that will run with her head between her legs,

I WANT JUSTICE FOR EVERY ONE OF THESE DAUGHTERS BETRAYED

When WE see THAT

Then, and ONLY then

Does ANY have a Right, to say those who Refuse to serve, are deserters.!

Your last line makes ZERO sense. As long as her contract is still up, then yes, she is a deserter.
Lady, have you ever served? Let me answer for you, NO.
So what your talking of happens not just only in the military, but EVERYWHERE. sad but true to say the least and it dors'nt make it okay. Their is a new campaign in the army, its "Be.Know.Do" we have sharp classes twice amonth to address sexual harrasment/assault.

Heroes don't save people by voting with their feet.

If she defied her orders on the spot and stayed to protest them... yeah, she'd still be punished, but at least she would have made an impact. For better or worse.

i have no sympathy for this woman, she chose to join the armed forces. she signed up and took the oath and now refuses to keep up her end after the taxpayers payed for her training her gear and her education. she had avenues she could have gone through to find a way to work this out but instead went AWOL which is punishable by prison time.
i mean the article makes sure we know she has four kids and another one on the way, why? because it triggers emotional responses that divide people. typical media manipulation, that a man wouldn't create if this happened to one.
it's a funny double standard that people on this thread have, somehow it is okay if she goes AWOL because she has kids, even though i bet a lot of men that go AWOL also have kids but they don't matter.

since when do we consider kids when punishing adults? it's news to me that we have started doing that! now i have sympathy for the kids, don't get me wrong, i have sympathy for any kid who's parents do criminal things, but they shouldn't be a factor when punishing adults.

Originally posted by EllaMarina
Heroes don't save people by voting with their feet.

If she defied her orders on the spot and stayed to protest them... yeah, she'd still be punished, but at least she would have made an impact. For better or worse.

from the article she seems to have went AWOL over the death of children in iraq, well she could have gone over and i dunno.. saved them?
that is better than depriving her own kids of a mother and she would have done something meaningful.

if this is really how it is, she is a rather thoughtless person who doesn't give a crap about anyone but herself.