Israel 'to stop using white phosphorus shells'

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

For every rocket Israel has fired into a Hamas vehicle to kill it's leadership ...and killed Palestinian civilians in the "collateral damage", there is a Katyusha rocket into a civilian neighborhood, north of the line, which kills or comes very near killing people who did nothing to die for.

You can't , you just can't put Hamas and the power of Israel in the same equation. The amount of rockets that gaza hits is a thenfold of what might fall on Israel, they have their Iron Dome with a 70% succesrate.

Its like putting an astronaut and a caveman in a pit. Sticks and stones against Lasers. Israel is a the height of their arrogance.

reply to post by Senduko


We're just going to have to agree to disagree here. Nothing, but nothing in this world, will change your view of Israel in the way you see the nation. I can see that and from threads beyond this one. The same is true for others here ...and I'm probably about to the end of debating it. It's become like Abortion, Religion and Politics in general. Topics where people can't, as a general rule, debate. Minds are made up, positions are dug in and it's fighting, not debating.

That's not any negative statement to you, as I know you approach the subject without insult or personal attack, and that's appreciated. It's just a statement of how things are. As sincere and as strongly as you believe your position to be correct, so do I and others on the opposite side or, the middle.....which alone is a point of hard debate/fight for whether there even is a middle and where that lay.

After all, the people who live this, on both sides, every day, have been fighting over lines on a map since the late 40's ...and fighting the concept and overall outlines of this topic for a couple thousand years at various levels. It's sure not something any of us can expect to settle, even in this small way. Eh?

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000
reply to post by threewisemonkeys

 

They never denied using them. That misreading of their statements, intentional or not, is what makes it hard to take the points which follow, however well spoken, seriously. It speaks to the agenda the whole statement is made from.

Israel's statements are usually intentionally misleading. It give's them, and you, plausible deniability, but only to the blind. Israel flatly refuted using "banned" weapons on many, many occasions. A quick Google search will give you many statements from the IDF from "credible" sources. Your claim that they did not deny it is at best unintentionally false, at worst it is an outright lie and disinformation.

Israeli military spokesmen deny that their forces have used phosphorus in Gaza, despite photographs and film of munitions showing similar characteristics to the potentially lethal shells.

In its early statements the Israeli military repeatedly denied using white phosphorus, saying "We categorically deny the use of white phosphorus", and "The IDF acts only in accordance with what is permitted by international law and does not use white phosphorus."

The Israeli army said operational secrecy prevented disclosure of its weaponry, but emphasised it "only employs weapons permitted by international law".

reply to post by threewisemonkeys


If you'd like to refer to statements, please, do everyone the good faith honesty for being true to what you are replying to.

Israel has, repeatedly, denied using White Phosphorus in the role, for the purpose and with the effect it is accused of. It has not, at any time I have seen, denied having or having used White Phosphorus munitions as part of the load out for the Israeli Defense Force in combat. It has been as has been clearly claimed, used as a tool to lay down smoke barriers to obscure the sight of enemy positions and movement of I.D.F. troops engaged at the time. That is how this plays out. The difference is statement of fact, which is supportable by reference to actual words spoken, recorded and investigated by those outside the conflict or either side, themselves ...and propaganda being put out by either side.

Now, honest people can have a legitimate debate about whether Israel was being sincere in saying it's never been used by their forces as banned munitions, to the purposes it was used. Personally, I DO think that is stretching the truth to the breaking point and at best, they've been negligent ...and worst, criminally indifferent. Point made and even agreed with.

It's bad when I actually DO agree they've misused it...but can't even go there ..for how badly twisted the debate becomes by the agendas as large as semi-trucks being pushed to the absolute exclusion of ALL else.


Again... This is, absolutely and 100%...SECONDARY to the point of this Thread which is the fact they are NOT using it in ANY role...going forward. Yet, you must be hung up, endlessly, and without pause or distraction, from the hammering of Israel for what it's done previously. You're welcome to make your very own thread about how much you passionately hate Israel and every single thing they've done, are doing or will ever do in the world. This isn't the one for it. This one was presented to show a rare sign of positive action taken.

As much as positive and Israel in the same sentence is considered a contradiction of terms? Not everyone in the world agrees with you, on any level. Not every thread that isn't 100% negative to that nation and the millions who live there, needs the hate thrown in. .....In my humble opinion.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Again with the denial and deliberate obfuscation of the truth despite the mountain of evidence to the contrary. I see you are fond of the term "going forward". This is big society speak for "let's just forget about the past". As if past transgressions can be simply washed away with the passage of time.

We see it time and time again. Crimes are committed. Then they are denied for as long as possible. Then when everyone has forgotten the truth comes out. When that happens people like yourself "encourage" people to "move forward". Quite a crafty piece of social engineering.

Israel is guilty of war crimes. You'd probably that not become official. You're damage control.

reply to post by threewisemonkeys

Please stop with the attempts to derail the thread.

I'm really asking politely....as you've been at this now for message, after message, since you dropped in to pull it off any form of a positive note.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'm not derailing the thread, I'm pointing out the obvious. The only thing positive in this is that we at least have an admission of guilt. Sadly, it is unlikely that anyone will run with that particular ball and make Israel accountable for their actions. That really would be a positive outcome.

I fail to see how that is either off topic or negative. I can see why you'd see it as negative though.

Originally posted by Senduko
You can't , you just can't put Hamas and the power of Israel in the same equation.

Very true, Israel defends it citizens, Hamas use their citizens as human shields....

The amount of rockets that gaza hits is a thenfold of what might fall on Israel, they have their Iron Dome with a 70% succesrate.

So Israel spends money on protecting their own citizens, Hamas spend money on attacking Israel.... using their citizens as human shields!
If Hamas wanted the Israeli attacks to stop it would cost them nothing at all....
If Israel wanted Hamas to stop attacking they would have to cease to exist, as Hamas in their charter have vowed to destroy Israel.

Its like putting an astronaut and a caveman in a pit. Sticks and stones against Lasers.

And the caveman keeps attacking the astronaut and every time they are beaten, as he is too stupid to learn to live peacefully.

Apparently the shells contain "minimal amounts" of white phosphorus, as opposed to being pure white phosphorus.

In any case, this is good news.

But, but, but...
Israel doesn't use white phosphorous.

Link 1 .

“I can tell you with certainty that white phosphorus is absolutely not being used”,
an IDF spokesperson had initially lied.
Several days later, and two days after the HRW report,
after photographs of the weapon being used in Gaza had appeared widely in the media, the official Israeli position became:
“Any munitions that Israel is using are in accordance with international law. Israel does not specify the types of munitions or the types of operations it is conducting.”

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