Official: US Special Forces [team wasn't] allowed to fly to Benghazi during attack

Originally posted by Wrabbit2000

This, from a retired Sergeant Major. If he's not for real and such a man by this name wasn't 5th Special Forces, with that rank, I'd imagine folks in this very thread could find that out quickly enough. That's about the top of the Enlisted ranks, so, not exactly a million of them floating around out there, I'd guess.

A few words about Benghazi by a Sergeant Major, 5th Special Forces, Ret.

Yah...rabbit...he has gone by a few different names..."Cowboy Ken" etc. etc.

Looks like he has tried a lot of different "personalities"...His youtube channel is kind of like a running experiment of different personalities/ways to make money...but he is consistent in not liking Obama if that makes you feel better...I am doubting his military claims though.

Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07

Originally posted by CosmicCitizen
No one died during Watergate and yet Nixon got "axed".....Benghazi could be Obama's Watergate and lead to Impeachment proceedings.

IF they are going to impeach obama then they might as well go after him about operation fast and furious and/or violating the second amendment by trying to pass the unreasonable second "assualt weapons" ban that thank god failed.

Otherwise they LOOK LAME as hell!

edit on 7/5/13 by EarthCitizen07 because: (no reason given)

this is just another case of republicans filling up another porta-potty, ok, after wiping... what's next...oh yeah debt ceiling!...republicans will refuse to pay Americas bills....can't wait for them to screw up our debt rating more, and cost taxpayers more money in interest payments,...hey...better than that money going to some stupid poor people for food stamps, right?

I wanna see someone tackle globalism for a change and put an end to it once and for all. We are running enormous trade deficits with china for 3 decades and all our presidents and congress criters are wall street sellouts.

If globalism was tackled early enough we would not need such an enormous welfare state. We also need less military hardware and to close down some/many foreign military bases. 3 million military(half are reserves) is somewhat excessive as well(2 million is plenty).

Both big parties are covering up the issues and focusing on smaller ones. Romney was the first person to mention tariffs but I doubt he even meant it. Ron Paul was the best choice for america and the ptb really screwed him.

No one could have seen the future to know how long they would be alive for thus canceling SF from going in to save them. They were left to die plain and simple, if the state dept cared they would have sent SF in hoping to get to them in time, because again no one knew if they would survive 2 hours or 8 hours...

This is BS...some gave an order that ended their life without even trying to rescue them...and I think its the Sec of State based on her anger during the congressional hearings as well as the WH...

Sniper

Originally posted by muse7
Still stuck in Benghazi huh?

If it was your loved one who was killed, would you want justice?

By your response, you're fine with lip service.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Hillary tried to play this thing to generate favor for Obama. It started out with US Operatives "protesting", and then the locals joined in and, whaddaya know, Hillary lost her nerve and screwed it up. (and nearly her life when she 'slipped' on the floor and 'hit her head').

Originally posted by marinesniper0317
They were left to die plain and simple, if the state dept cared they would have sent SF in hoping to get to them in time, because again no one knew if they would survive 2 hours or 8 hours...

I will never leave a fallen comrade behind...

This is what we get when we elect people who have no real sense of service and shared sacrifice to positions of leadership in our government.

Military service should be a pre-requisite for elected office in America.

If it were one of my Soldiers I'd have gone in to save their body from mutilation if nothing else - having been on scene (found out about it after the fact) when the Somalis dragged a naked Soldier's body on live TV down the street most likely to be seen by his family I don't think I could stand by with the authority to prevent something like that. The negative effect of those type things on morale are immeasurable.

Barring that piece I'd most certainly to secure the area and gather intelligence rather than let all the actor disappear into the wind and "hope" we find some evidence 3 weeks later when the FBI decided to get off their ass and go in.

reply to post by seamus


I agree with everything but the suggestion that U.S. Operatives had anything to do with this. They didn't have to...although the outcome was forseeable with or without instigation by elements within the US carrying mixed agendas.

I'd posted the document dump earlier in the thread from the Issa committee which are the originals for security situation reports, updates and ongoing situation as it fell apart for months before the fatal night. Two things stand out to note here for how we didn't have to really push anything. All our side had to do was ...literally.. do nothing.

#1. The blast that blew out the side wall of the Consulate compound quite sometime before the last night there. In it, there is a very detailed report from the security forces the U.S. hired at a discount from the local militia. This, used instead of U.S. Marines. They were so detailed in their report...because they helpfully stood there and watched as the local fighter planted his bomb, strolled back to the pickup he arrived in and drove off. Never attempting to stop him or interfere in any way. We hired the enemy to guard our own people ....and the result was predictable. The staffer who died inside the compound texted out that night that he recognized security elements among the attackers that destroyed the compound. You just can't hire good help these days, eh?

#2. The reports indicate on an ongoing basis how the other nations were shutting down and bugging out of Benghazi for months before the compound was destroyed. In one remarkable incident, recorded in a routine report back to Washington, a helicopter transporting nothing more offensive than general supplies for the local government in Behghazi was shot at and hit by Anti-Aircraft fire, coming over the city. Nothing specific for why and nothing pursued for follow-up to shoot it down. Someone just thought it was a cool thing to shoot at and almost destroyed it....just because it was there to shoot. Such was the place they had this compound:

Photos of the Benghazi Compound before the night of the attack

Does that look like a compound in a city where they shoot at helicopters and nearly destroy them in-flight, just for amusement? A place where other major nations are pulling out for months in advance? All they had to do ...was nothing at all. They staked those guys out like goats at feeding time ...and the end result was something anyone like Hillary should have well known would come. Just a question of time....

Originally posted by marinesniper0317
No one could have seen the future to know how long they would be alive for thus canceling SF from going in to save them. They were left to die plain and simple, if the state dept cared they would have sent SF in hoping to get to them in time, because again no one knew if they would survive 2 hours or 8 hours...

This is BS...some gave an order that ended their life without even trying to rescue them...and I think its the Sec of State based on her anger during the congressional hearings as well as the WH...

Sniper

1. No military man will leave his buddy in the battlefield to die without at least attempts to get him back alive, no matter the odds. And it is this altrusic faith that we learnt how the Vietcong and NVA army would intentionally injured an american solider, to make the rest break cover to rescue them and slowly, wipe out the entire team.

Fortunately, in that war, US military controlled the skies, and whenever possible, chopper gunships were called in lay suppressing fire on the NVA or to bring in more troops to wipe out the NVA, and then when the coast is clear, the injured are helivac out.


2. Spec Ops are not conscripted soldiers. They are volunteers and are told very clearly even before they join on what to expect, for they perform highly surgical tasks beyond SOP manuals or even safety manuals. And even then, they have to pass through a rigourous both mental and physical selection tests before being chosen.

And for the chosen, they swore upon an oath of allegience AND secrecy. To break that oath is to destroy's only one's honor, and liable for criminal charges.

There are many missions that will not get to see the light, nor be read in the papers, not to hide, but only to ensure critically that civilians get to sleep well at night and live the rest of their lives in peace, unaware of the sacrifices made by security agencies who do not believe we live in disneyland where evil does not exists in the dark, thus the necessary methods to do so, not freely, but subjected to the Senate Intelligence Oversight Committee, made up of elected and capabel representatives, to ensure no one, no commander or head, goes beyond the parameters laid down in State policies.

Thus, for those who shoot off their mouths over missions, are either armchair hoaxers, or those whom have no honor and thus credibity at all, as they are oath breakers.


3. No mortal could have predicted what happened at Benghazi at the precise moment when the attack came. But we all do know what was the size of the crowd and their weapons. It was by the hundreds.

No mortal knew who was alive and who was dead in that FOREIGN SOIL until at least several hours later. Security was the responsibility of the host nation - Libya. Only they had the armed troops to deal with the large mass of well armed and battle hardened militants whom had only months ago won battles against the regular and trained army of Gaddafi. They were not pushovers like african terrorists.

TO SEND that SMALL spec ops team there is to only sentence them to slaughter and death. NO military commander worth his salt would do such a thing, but ONLY amchair generals and politicians whom have too much time on their hands instead of wrestling with the economic matters of the state whereby many americans can do with more help.


4. Morale is a great booster, but only when the truth and realities are used, not propanda or irrational commands. Every life is precious, including the spec ops whom long knew what to expect and would willingly do so, but they are NOT expandable, more so for stupid idiotic armchair hindsighted purposes, such as what the congressional hearing alluded that the commander on the field should have done.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

I think you are missing or ignoring a critical material fact ...and it's part of what these hearings are being held to establish.

This wasn't just another military mission where a unit was left to live or die, alone. This wasn't a fast moving event, started and ended so quickly, that nothing could be done. This also wasn't a unit in contact with the enemy on foreign soil.

This was a U.S. Department of State Consulate compound. That was a United States Ambassador, which ranks among the highest representatives of our Government overseas, outside of Uniform. He serves at the pleasure of and as direct representative TO The President of the United States......and it was he, above all, who was left to die.

You mention, no one could know .... well, that's true, and as a witness today has pointed out and many in the past have said, the whole definition of Crisis is that details are not known. The whole purpose of response to crisis, is to respond and determine those details from a position of reacting TO them ...not watching them from a drone circling above while making guesses.

You also mention foreign soil. Well, No, actually, this wasn't. As a United States Consulate, and extension of the United States Embassy in Tripoli, that little square of land was United States Soil for the purposes of International Law and Treaty while the State Department Consulate occupied it. Such is the case for Embassies and Consulates within the United States that belong to other nations. It's a world wide thing that all nations know, respect and honor.....nothing new for a claim there.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


You mentioned the critical fact being missed by me is that:-

1. The Ambassador is left to die.

Who killed the ambassador? Had the witchhunt of fellow americans been enough? Fact is, he was killed by militants armed by the hundreds who had overwhelmed his bodyguards supplied as according to the qouta allocated according to international agreements over foreign embassies on foreign terrorities.

There was no way USA could have sent a battalion of Marine Corps to secure that federal terroritory on foreign soil, or other nations such as North Korea, China, Russia, Afghanistan, etc would have asked the same on american soil, and imagine the consequences if even just minor misunderstandings occur.


2. Embassy on foreign soil

The embassy on Benghazi is federal terrority, as agreed by international agreements. The RADICAL MILITANTS, whom are the killers, are NOT the Libyan govt, and being terrorists, they respect NO terrority, rights but only death to others and themselves.


Try another to justify your attempts, this time hopefully more intelligent and rational, for the time wasting congressional hearings when it could have been spent on helping americans further on the economy or updates on the quest for the apprehension of the murderers of americans in Benghazi.

When a president lies to the country . That president looses the trust of the people and the ability to lead a nation, it effects us all. In addition it damages and erodes our existing foreign policies with other nations. This is why we as American citizens must contact are representative and demand at the very least that the president be questioned on Benghazi, Lybia.

I don't write this lightly or with any political favoring. It is very clear after today's testimony from Gregory Hicks' (FORMER DEPUTY CHIEF OF MISSION IN LIBYA) that this was a clear conscious decision made by our president and secretary of state.
-------

We determined that Lieutenant Gibson and his team of special forces troops should go.  The people in Benghazi had been fighting all night.  They were tired.  They were exhausted. We wanted to make sure the airport was secure for their withdrawal.  As Colonel Gibson and his three personnel were -- were getting in the cars, he stopped.  And he called them off and said -- told me that he had not been authorized to go.  The vehicles had to go because the flight needed to go to Tripoli -- I mean, to Benghazi.  Lieutenant Colonel Gibson was furious.  I had told him to go bring our people home. That's what he wanted to do -- paid me a very nice compliment.  I won't repeat it here

The above statement shows there is choosing who might live and who might die in the attempt. I know that was a tough decision for Gregory to make. It amazes me that they did so much with very little. The statement also reflects no authorization. It appears that LTC Gibson was waiting for authorization from AFRICOM, AFRICOM was most likely trying to get authorization from whom ? My guess is the CIC. That order and authorization that LTC Gibson he was waiting for should have come from the command staff at AFRICOM and stopped there. In a situation like this LTC Gibson should have full authorization for any thing he needs. AFRICOM is more than capable of granting any request, they should not be seeking the CIC's approval. The president clearly undermined his officers for a different agenda that resulted in lost lives.

A video the president says , BS ! We cannot and should not let this administration slip under the wire.

complete transcript

This excerpt of a Dem and Repub at the hearing sums it up...There might not be a scandal, but hell, there are dead Americans...why not exploit it!

On Wednesday, Democratic Rep. Mark Pocan of Wisconsin showed little concern about the larger impact on politics. "I don't think there's a smoking gun today," he told the House panel. "I don't think there's a lukewarm slingshot."

"It may not be a smoking gun or a warm slingshot," Republican Rep. Doug Collins said in the hearing's final hour. "But we have four dead Americans,"

Read more here: www.modbee.com...=cpy

Originally posted by SJE98

The above statement shows there is choosing who might live and who might die in the attempt. I know that was a tough decision for Gregory to make. It amazes me that they did so much with very little. The statement also reflects no authorization.

With one embassy in Libya under attack...and two Spec Ops teams already on the way...He wanted to abandon the Tripoli Embassy and the American personell there? While at teh same time protestors gathering at other embassies all over the middle east??

YES...He was told to stay and guard the Tripoli Embassy. He had four guys with only 9mm side-arms...best suited for securing an Embassy before it is attacked...not abondoning the OTHER embassy in Tripoli to wade into a battle that was near over.

Are people thinking? I mean does politics just making peoples thinking centers shut down?

Why would these four guys leave the remaining embassy in Libya and ambandon the personnel there when apparently embassies in Libya were under attack???

All of this has ALREADY been thoroughly reviewed and discussed in multiple reviews with congress..."Chairman Issa" is simply looking to begin the Presidential election season early and smear Clinton....he knows it, EVERYONE in DC knows it, Everyone...cuz what was "revealed" yesterday was already known...just Political BS at the expense of dead Americans.

Interesting (well, I guess not since it's Wikipedia) that the account has changed in a matter of hours... However, I did notice the extract I posted was sourced from a NY Times article (not sure of the date).

So no-one has answers to my questions on page 3? We don't know where these photos came from (specifically who and how we managed to get them)? We don't know how over 100 heavily armed militants managed to miss Stevens' completely? Are these militants responsible for the explosive that supposedly killed Stevens via cyanide gas? Are the drone and security camera recordings available to the public?

And while I'm at it, a few more questions: Is there a map showing a graphic of where everyone was in the compound and where they were found? When did Lybian support arrive to fend off the attackers? When did the Lybian citizens arrive to extract Stevens from the locked room?

I'm sure amongst this vast community there are at least a few who have aggregated all possible info and therefore able to answer what I'm asking?

EDIT: My bad. I'm posting to the wrong Benghazi thread, but I guess my questions still stand if someone here could answer them. Here is the thread I meant to reply to....

reply to post by Indigo5

Why would these four guys leave the remaining embassy in Libya and ambandon the personnel there when apparently embassies in Libya were under attack???

Gregory did not abandoned his personal.

I'm not sure what your experience is in a theater of war. They were moving out /falling back to the alternative annex . There was no purpose in staying trying to defend the Tripoli location. He was securing all his personal to move to the alternate annex in armored suv's at dawn.

Four SF against mortar file, really? thats a loosing battle even if he had ten SF personal still a loosing battle and he knew it. Gregory directed what resources her could . The primary objective at this point was to evacuate the wounded and secure all personal in Benghazi, (bring them back.) with the 130 given by the Lybian government. There was no other way.

There were no additional resources why? There was no adequate defense personal for any location in Lybia period . The chain of command was making little to no effort that goes all the way to the top, why? Where was the president ? This is not some kind of political agenda for 2014 elections. There was a serious lack of just about everything here SNFU!

Gregory made the correct decisions. What else could he do. He's not out to smear anyone, I know the guy myself that is not his nature. Some people like to play arm chair commander, don't assume anything in this matter. Everyone of these people in Benghazi need to tell there experience of what happened their ,otherwise it will be swept under the rug. America demands no less .

.