Official: US Special Forces [team wasn't] allowed to fly to Benghazi during attack

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
Would the presence of the Spec Forces made any differences, more so after the ambassador had been found dead and the other 2 only hours away from death, which the trip from Tripoli would have taken the same or not longer time?

Any reaction that showed the will to respond would have been better for the nation than - "aw shucks it's too late", "let's arrest the unrelated film maker guy".

On a more direct note the operators responding could have secured the area detained actors (wounded or living) killed some HVT's, the planners, the raid leader, recovered items of intelligence value, cell phones, weapons serial numbers, video of dead Hajjis is almost as good as catching them alive at least you can reconcile them to the lists and determine which cells are active in the AO.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101It was a tragic fate, not only for those in the embassy, but even for the small group of spec offrs whom would not have been able to deal with that highly charged and inflamed radicalised heavily armed mob with an intent by the hundreds there.

The two operators that did respond killed over 150; in Mogadishu we (I was there yes) killed at a ratio of something like (estimated) 250:1 for every shooter. At least they'd know that there are some consequences to their asshattery.

:puzouble Post

reply to post by grey580


From the little that I've gathered.

The US was there before the uprising, CIA found the people, and then funded the people. Then someone at the embassy, in connection with the CIA, was in charge of maintaining armaments and other related things. Some people were left out, and this is the result.

I don't buy the story, but it seems reasonable.

The State Department acknowledged Wednesday that it rejected appeals for more security at its diplomatic posts in Libya in the months before a fatal terrorist attack in Benghazi as Republicans suggested that lapses contributed to the deaths of the U.S. ambassador and three other Americans.

Hopefully questions will be answered about resource allocations.

embassy security in fiscal 2012 ($2.311 billion) was $330 million less than the Obama administration had requested ($2.641 billion).

Biden is already trying to say it is the republicans fault for not approving the full amount requested; however......

Conclusion: The GOP-led House did initially approve about $330 million less than what the administration requested, but in the final bill, passed with bipartisan support after adjustments by the Senate, put the amount a little closer to the administration's target.

even if it was the full 330 million out of 2.311 billion that is no excuse for leaving and not supporting the consulate when everyone in the field was reporting the situation was not stable and requested more security.

Expect mud slinging and CYA by everyone they can pull out of the mud from both sides.
from CNN Fact Check not known for it's unbiased reporting www.google.com... 2Ffact-check-benghazi-security&ei=byeIUfDsFebA0AH434CACQ&usg=AFQjCNGfX2PVTzLszN8hDPI64sifp8hung&sig2=arcn1y83KJ87uMhXo9tlnw

Most governments allocate resources where they are needed. Anyone at state that thought Libya was a safe zone needs to turn in their badge.
Wrabbit thanks for posting S&F and hope the test @ school go well for you

I've been following this story somewhat off and on, although not as in depth as others.

It's been damn near twenty years since I was active duty Marine Corps, and back then American embassies had Marines posted to them, especially for reasons like the situation that went down in Benghazi.

Was there ever any reason given why there were no Marine detachment posted to this embassy?

I've seen some figures thrown around about funding, blah blah blah, but I mean, even with limited funding, pull Marine detachments from some of the embassies in our ally's countries and post them to mega hotspots such as Benghazi.

Doesn't make sense to me.


Meh, never mind. 727 above me pretty much asked the same question I did,

Okay guys, Merry Christmas a bit early, since it seems that these aren't exactly spread all over the net anymore. Odd about that....but so be it. That's why I hoard things from the net and have gigs upon gigs of archives to current and past news events. You never know what may become scarce.

This first link is 166 pages of documents. These are original source documents from and relating to the Consulate Compound in Benghazi, Libya. In them, you will find the memos back and forth running for months prior to the night Stevens was murdered. You will see detailed reports about the previous attack on this same compound, who did it, and why. That was the blow out of the perimeter wall as a warning and demand.....and what it was demanding is a key point they BETTER talk about at these hearings, IMO.

Also in these are the requests, denials returned and reasoning for why on more security....US Marines as security instead of using local goobers (some of whom were identified by text message of one of the staffers as being a part of the attack which killed the Ambassador) as well as regular updates over those long months for the security situation as other nations abandoned Benghazi due to how bad it was getting.

166 pages of source documents from the State Department and others on Benghazi Libya

This next link is to a photo set which is also large and extensive. These show everything from the night of the first attack on the outer wall, long before the fatal last attack....to detail photos of the grounds and buildings, inside and out both before and after the over-run and destruction of the Consulate. There is nothing more graphic than has been shown in Western media...but MUCH MUCH MORE than has ever appeared anywhere in media.

Photo sets of Benghazi, Libya

Some people would like to make this sound irrelevant or like 'just another political scandal'. Thats patently absurd. A United States Ambassador and personal representative to the Secretary of State and by extension, President of the United States was murdered and on a cowardly way. In addition, there were over TWENTY people with him in that consulate before former Navy SEALs came from the CIA Annex compound to the Southeast and rescued all they could get out.

This would have carried a body count like Mogadishu, approaching 20 or more, if they hadn't made that lonely run over to get everyone they could out of the building before it was totally overrun and destroyed.

This has only just begun if the truth is finally going to come out, even a little bit.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


oversight.house.gov...

Reading through the above pdf it was evident things were heating up with the RPG attack of the consulate and other attacks on Missions and foreigners. Rather dry reading but thanks for the follow up.

I do believe with the animosity displayed toward the state department and the official government stonewalling the investigating committee will be like an old snapping turtle and not let go until every means is exhausted to get the answers....One question will be who's careers and future political aspirations will be ruined in the process?

reply to post by 727Sky


Well, you are right. It is dry reading. Then again, most things from Uncle Sammy which are worth reading tend to be, right? If they fancy it up to make it interesting, they dumb it down to make it worthless too.

reply to post by Golf66

So in your professional opinion have you ever thought better to beg forgiveness than ask permission? I'm not talking "Tears Of the Sun" here ain't an ambassador considered a national asset thus priory op to save their persons?

What I can't understand is why everyone in the media and in government offices are suddenly acting so shocked. All these things were known before the election. And before the whistleblowers came forward. It was downright obvious that a cover-up was happening and Obama was getting away with it. I am soo sick and tired of the most corrupt president this nation has ever seen always coming up smelling like roses. America you have been conned by a sneaky lying man with his own agenda. Just wait, I suspect even more truths are going to come out about other things besides Benghazi in the near future. It is about time!

So, it appears that people were sacrificed for some other unseen purpose or it was an assassination from within.

Reminds me of Spy Game with Robert Redford & Brad Pitt, but the bad guys won.

reply to post by elouina


Honestly, I think that's the whole problem...people didn't know and/or didn't believe.

I think the major disconnect here, as one exists, is that it requires the average person to do a thing they just flat won't do without the strongest of evidence to leave them NO choice. They must admit, even to themselves, that the President of the United States and his top people could outright lie to our faces and then walk away, whistling.....as if it didn't matter.

I know, that sounds stupid to say, but think about the true implications for everyday citizens raised from birth to believe the world is generally a bad place, while the U.S. is the beacon on the hill that gives the light of hope. To have to accept the beacon has been turned off due to budget cuts (figuratively) can be as devastating as losing religious Faith in many cases, in my opinion.

I don't think the majority of people WANT to believe a direct, personal representative of the President himself could be murdered while people in Washington watched or listened in real time, and consciously chose to do nothing in support of the screams for help. It's......anti-american beyond the level most are willing to go, imo.

GOLF= earned a star for the fitting use of the word 'asshattery.' My second favorite word after 'badassery.' The world would be a better place if we used asshattery more often, and more honestly.

Wrabbit: Great thread, I too have been waiting and watching to see if this thing blew up. It was obvious even from the cheap seats that there was some serious BS getting flung around initially. As to why Americans let gov't get away with this garbage over and over: We fall into one of three well played camps.

1) Ermagherd! That damned Obama really pisses me off! (Does nothing, posts a meme to facebook)
2) Grrrrrrr!!! Stupid (snippity snip-snip) racist Tea Baggers going after Obama over BS! (Closes mind before finishing headline)
3) YAY! (GLEE, football, American Idol, mind numbing sit-com, ad nauseum) is on! Got my tivo all set up!

Roles may reverse/change, but as a nation we have been following their playbook for a long time.

Originally posted by elouina
What I can't understand is why everyone in the media and in government offices are suddenly acting so shocked. All these things were known before the election. And before the whistleblowers came forward. It was downright obvious that a cover-up was happening and Obama was getting away with it. I am soo sick and tired of the most corrupt president this nation has ever seen always coming up smelling like roses. America you have been conned by a sneaky lying man with his own agenda. Just wait, I suspect even more truths are going to come out about other things besides Benghazi in the near future. It is about time!

CBS was shocked to hear the whistleblowers. What does this mean?
Where is Hillary now?
4 Americans are dead.

reply to post by Golf66



Never be complacent. Spec Forces are only human too, and are not expandable for foolhardy irrational actions.

In Benghazi, those rioters are not african undernourished and undertrained bullies, but ACTUAL combatants who HAD BEEN in battle and FACED death constantly during the Libyan uprising.

The Spec Force team is small, compared to the size of the well armed rioters numbered by hundreds, and know the terrain and ground, and the roads well. They could easily melt back into their homes and fire from windows. Spec Ops are easily distinguishable in that environment, and would only be PURE sitting ducks.

And if they made a mistake and kill even one innocent civilian, mogadishu would be repeated, not with one american dragged around the streets, but the entire team, until the Libyan forces or the local warlord that is aligned with the govt chase them away.

US will need at least a battalion of Marines to battle those rioters, airlifted with 10 C-130 planes to reach there if the intention is to secure the federal property - US Embasssy, without the libyan govt's help. I doubt if you can even find a platoon of marines or spec ops there back then.

And sending that military size is tantamount to invasion, which no state will countenance.

Responsibility ULTIMATELY lays with the host nation - Libya, as they were supposed to provide security. No embassy will have a battalion of own guard troops in a host nation by international agreement. Already 4 precious american lives had been lost. There is no need to lynch another few more americans whom had murdered no one.

The real pepertrators and murderers, and their radical militant organisation are right now only laffing at US. with its witchhunting of fellow americans.

What had happened, happened. We cannot change the past, but we can still change the future. Reviewing the host's provided guards and staff is one measure. More funding for intelligence officials to be on touch with the ground is another. And the ones with their masterminds who murdered the american officials must be hunted down across time and space. Their days are numbered as soon as american blood had been shed.

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
I thought we already knew this?

In the weeks after the incident didn't it come out that there had been orders to not allow help? Not really sure why this is "news" to anyone.

The problem is, when you throw in extra men on the ground, without knowing the size and disposition of your enemy -- you may just end up with more bodies and blood on your hands. This was also discussed months ago.

plus......the members of this very committee had a secret security meeting on Benghazi last fall, and only 3 out of 8 republican senators attended, and heres McCain's response on why he didn't go when asked the question by CNN
politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com...

notice how he tells the reporter "who in the hell are you to tell me what to do".....a senator paid by taxpayers money, and he's not responsible to tell anything to the American people. that piece of crap senator needs to retire and get the hell out of the senate.

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101


I think the special forces know the whole truth. Didn't an admiral get relieved on the same
day of the attack?

reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

They're called AIRSTRIKES,we use them once battles are heavily engaged with "Danger Close" on the request. There weren't any "innocent" protesters IF they surrounded the shooters,which I doubt.
If an Eagle can hit a fox hole guns only, then a friggin squid in an F18 could line up a street and do it too.

Originally posted by cavtrooper7
reply to post by SeekerofTruth101

 

They're called AIRSTRIKES,we use them once battles are heavily engaged with "Danger Close" on the request. There weren't any "innocent" protesters IF they surrounded the shooters,which I doubt.
If an Eagle can hit a fox hole guns only, then a friggin squid in an F18 could line up a street and do it too.

The CIA guy said we could have had forces there to assist in 3 hours.
That's before the 2nd attack!

The response to Benghazi was a political one:

'The war on terror was over'

Clearly it was not, people died the administration lied.

To win an election.