Adam (vs the Man) Kokesh organizing an armed civil disobedience march on D.C.

I don't normally follow Adam on everything he says but he's got more balls than most of the ATS armchair warriors put together! Seriously what are you or I doing by posting on ATS, not a thing, that what.... Someones got to be man and even if it's a bad idea or action at least it's an attempt to upset the status quo..... Much more of an accomplishment that you can claim in your lifetimes at least!

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by havok

 

Our forefathers didn't whine and complain.
They took arms straight to the oppressors.
We should do the same!

That would be my exact sentiment.

Samuel Adams went out with John Hancock to instigate shootouts against British soldiers just for the fun of it--before the war even started.

Hahaha... and there's no issue with gung-ho cowbows at all.. they're the... minority.

Lets go shoot some brits.. then start the war.. hyuk hyuk.

Originally posted by MrSpad

Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
reply to post by havok

 

Our forefathers didn't whine and complain.
They took arms straight to the oppressors.
We should do the same!

That would be my exact sentiment.

Samuel Adams went out with John Hancock to instigate shootouts against British soldiers just for the fun of it--before the war even started.

I can't stand the attitude of people who think that "peaceably" protesting is the only recourse. Sometimes you just have to knock someone's teeth out.

Except that most of the population is very happy and when small group of what they view as nutters start running around with guns they will cheer on the people who put them down. People have the best lives and the most freedom the have had in the history of this nation. People will have to oppressed before they will rise up.

According to this thread, there are tanks ready to roll over US citizens and thousands of innocent civilians are about to be slaughtered.

You NEED to arm yourself and go break the law. It's the only way to show them what!

Originally posted by Hopechest
People like this guy are what is destroying this nation.

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”

-Martin Luther King Jr., A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches

No. people like Adam are what make this nation great. People willing to stand up to tyranny and oppression are the people I admire and respect. Not greedy politicians or weak people that hide behind their key-boards and tell everyone to support a broken system out of fear of violence.

Great quote by Dr. King, however I dont think it applies to the current situation in America. People like Adam Kokesh are not driven by hate they are driven by a desire for justice and for everyone to be free from the crushing boot of big govt.

Peaceful protests are great but we've already been down that road and all it did was put us in the situation we are in today. Those same people that were protesting in the 50s and 60s are the ones that are pushing the agendas that threaten the constitution today.

Originally posted by Rocker2013
reply to post by gladtobehere

 

I think he's a mouthy, ignorant, simple-minded fool who thinks he has more support than he actually does. And I think people have far more important things to be doing than "illegally" marching around in a threatening manner.

If he does manage to get anyone to go along with him I predict they will both be arrested within minutes and held under anti-terror laws before being released and then monitored for a decade. And I think that's what SHOULD happen.

Like it or not, this is threatening behaviour, and if he were Muslim you would all be screaming that he should be arrested right now. But because he's American and his issue is gun control and not religion, it's okay? lol

P.S. this is how idiots get themselves added to special lists

Thats right!

Shut up and step in line with the rest of the slaves. No need for rebellion you might get somebody hurt or killed.

From one house slave to another: "C'mon it really isnt that bad, is it?" "Our masters give us plenty of table scaps to eat and keep clothes on our backs and at least we're not working out in the fields..."

Originally posted by Nicks87
People like Adam Kokesh are not driven by hate they are driven by a desire for justice and for everyone to be free from the crushing boot of big govt.
Peaceful protests are great but we've already been down that road and all it did was put us in the situation we are in today. Those same people that were protesting in the 50s and 60s are the ones that are pushing the agendas that threaten the constitution today.

People like Adam Kokesh are not driven by hate they are driven by a desire for publicity and limelight which is more dangerous, yet. They want to be noticed and do whatever it takes to be noticed. He wants to be a hero without risk other than a few days in the slammer. As my previous post stated, I think Adam announced the march well in advance so that it could be stopped. Adam will then be interviewed and say things about the constitution he is purportedly defending and how his march was prevented by big government. Then he will be a hero to the few who don't understand what a supremely stupid idea an armed march on the fourth of July in the Capitol would be. Of course, he is being manipulated by those who want to restrict legal firearm ownership and they are hoping that he will get to march. Any blood spilled would be considered a necessary sacrifice to further their ends.
Stay home on the 4th. Cook out. Play with the kids. Watch fireworks aimed at the sky. Appreciate what you have.

I haven't read all the responses to this but for arguments sake, let's say this does go down. A 1000 people show up with rifles and march on the capital, everyone knows this will not go down without a hitch, and Adam and everyone marching with him will be shot, killed, or arrested, because you cannot carry a loaded weapon in the D.C. and no one is going let them come anywhere near the Whitehouse with loaded guns, but from what I have seen Adam is smarter than this, they will have guns no doubt, but imho i think they aren't actually gonna load them. I have no evidence to support this claim, but I think this is showing two things, 1)if it became neccassary the people could organize and be to many for the police to stop each and everyone of them with out deadly force. Which brings me to 2) If the cops or whoever will be there protecting the capital start the violence and it turns out not a single person has a bullet in their gun, a massacre of defenseless civilians will have to show the true colors of this Government. So either they march and show the Government there are True Patriots out there willing to do what may be neccassary to defend this Country from threats to the constitution, and there is no escalation, or they march and force the hand of the Government. Now I know of course it would be hard to make sure everyone participatiing does not actually load there weapon, so maybe it is unrealistic, so even if they go armed and loaded and it is only 100 people armed it is going to be a tension filled situation and I guess one way or the other loaded or not violent or peaceful this will be something that will be a catalyst for change. What kind of change? only time will tell.

reply to post by Sheepherder91

2) If the cops or whoever will be there protecting the capital start the violence and it turns out not a single person has a bullet in their gun, a massacre of defenseless civilians will have to show the true colors of this Government

It doesn't matter if the gun is loaded or not. If they point it at a police officer he is within his right to use deadly force. Finding out after the fact that it wasn't loaded is irrelevant.

reply to post by Hopechest

“Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity.”

― Martin Luther King Jr.

you should use that as your signature, post it on your bedroom and bathroom walls.

perhaps it'll finally sink in 'Sasha

You cannot open carry in DC. That has been banned in DC for years and for good reason. I have been to DC many times and it is a very tense place and always a red hot poker of political debate.

If Adam is actually able to gather a moderate or large group of live armed people marching in DC is could turn ugly real quick. Acts of civil disobedience can be highly effective but this could go a step beyond into the realm of armed revolt which is a horse of a different color all together. The police in DC are not going to take kindly to people armed marching down the streets of DC. The metro police will call in the military if they feel this event is not simply an act of civil disobedience.

Adam better be careful how he organizes this because he is putting people`s lives at risk. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Originally posted by freedomwv
You cannot open carry in DC. That has been banned in DC for years and for good reason. I have been to DC many times and it is a very tense place and always a red hot poker of political debate.

If Adam is actually able to gather a moderate or large group of live armed people marching in DC is could turn ugly real quick. Acts of civil disobedience can be highly effective but this could go a step beyond into the realm of armed revolt which is a horse of a different color all together. The police in DC are not going to take kindly to people armed marching down the streets of DC. The metro police will call in the military if they feel this event is not simply an act of civil disobedience.

Adam better be careful how he organizes this because he is putting people`s lives at risk. It will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Exactly, it's only going to end ugly.

reply to post by Covertblack


Yes but if the rifles are slung on there backs, they are not pointed at anybody. I mean nobody (I would hope) is stupid enough to march into D.C and point a gun at somebody. Well I could be wrong about that I'm sure there are but hopefully the only people that show up do it in the way it is inteneded, this isn't inteneded to march in and overthrow the government, I hope that the people marching realize the dangerous line they will be walking, Assuming the rifles stay on there backs, or are not used in a threatening manor, against the law enforcment officials. But alas, if the shooting starts they will say someone did raise a gun in a threatening manor, which of course we would never know the truth unless every single person in the march had a camara pointed on them, Then again if TPTB use this to further there agenda there will be a planted person who will raise the gun and unleash hell on everyone else, I can't see a way this is going to end well.

Having said that I am going. Not with a gun because I do not own a gun, but with a camcorder.

Now seeing how I am just gonna be a guy with a camera maybe there should be questions. I would like to interview some of the people in the march, to see where there heads are at prior to it. Most of the clips that we see on youtube and MSM don't give context other than the posters opinion or the "official story" about the people involved I think when I go I want to give a voice to people that are actually marching, so if something does go bad and "they" say so and so was crazy and came for blood, maybe my video can clear the air, of course i will film the march and whatever happens there, But I will do it from within the ranks of those marching. Not from the outside but from within.

So maybe this needs a new thread, I'm still new here.
but give me some questions to ask these people who are knowingly walking into a very deadly situation.

Originally posted by Sheepherder91
reply to post by Covertblack

 

Yes but if the rifles are slung on there backs, they are not pointed at anybody. I mean nobody (I would hope) is stupid enough to march into D.C and point a gun at somebody. Well I could be wrong about that I'm sure there are but hopefully the only people that show up do it in the way it is inteneded, this isn't inteneded to march in and overthrow the government, I hope that the people marching realize the dangerous line they will be walking, Assuming the rifles stay on there backs, or are not used in a threatening manor, against the law enforcment officials. But alas, if the shooting starts they will say someone did raise a gun in a threatening manor, which of course we would never know the truth unless every single person in the march had a camara pointed on them, Then again if TPTB use this to further there agenda there will be a planted person who will raise the gun and unleash hell on everyone else, I can't see a way this is going to end well.

Having said that I am going. Not with a gun because I do not own a gun, but with a camcorder.

Now seeing how I am just gonna be a guy with a camera maybe there should be questions. I would like to interview some of the people in the march, to see where there heads are at prior to it. Most of the clips that we see on youtube and MSM don't give context other than the posters opinion or the "official story" about the people involved I think when I go I want to give a voice to people that are actually marching, so if something does go bad and "they" say so and so was crazy and came for blood, maybe my video can clear the air, of course i will film the march and whatever happens there, But I will do it from within the ranks of those marching. Not from the outside but from within.

So maybe this needs a new thread, I'm still new here.
but give me some questions to ask these people who are knowingly walking into a very deadly situation.

Look 1000 people, all with an agenda and not a common agenda and most are "anti-government" types that this will draw.

-It only takes 1 person to fire the first shot and 1000 people are in a war. It only takes one crazy idiot who KNOWS he has an army backing him if the shooting starts.

-bad idea.

I think that is why I want to be there. I completly agree this will be a deadly situation, and it is most definitly a bad idea to be anywhere near this, but it has the potential to be the biggest thing of this generation, I do not want violence and to be honest if the shooting starts the video would be edited out to hide my screaming like a little girl, But there comes a time when sitting on the internet and posting political thoughts on facebook and reading how many people are actually against what is happening in the U.S. is enough and a time comes to take action, The men and women in Egypt knew the risk of marching againstest Mubarek but they went anyway. The Civil rights movement had the potential to end in disaster, but people still went, because they believed that what they were doing is right, for the greater good. Now this march is completly different than the civil rights march, instead of signs there will be guns, and an expotentially greater risk of a violent ending, I do not have any disillusion about being there I know I am putting myself in a situation that is a ticking time bomb, I am not a radical, I do not want to hurt anybody nor do I want anyone to get hurt but just being there saying "I was there, I saw it, I lived it, I did my part" If you don't stand for something, if you can't find a meaning to the madness then whats the point?

I would be my wish to leave the guns at home. I understand the symbolism and the reason why he wants it this way, but I think the message can be driven home without the guns.

Originally posted by Sheepherder91
I think that is why I want to be there. I completly agree this will be a deadly situation, and it is most definitly a bad idea to be anywhere near this, but it has the potential to be the biggest thing of this generation, I do not want violence and to be honest if the shooting starts the video would be edited out to hide my screaming like a little girl, But there comes a time when sitting on the internet and posting political thoughts on facebook and reading how many people are actually against what is happening in the U.S. is enough and a time comes to take action, The men and women in Egypt knew the risk of marching againstest Mubarek but they went anyway. The Civil rights movement had the potential to end in disaster, but people still went, because they believed that what they were doing is right, for the greater good. Now this march is completly different than the civil rights march, instead of signs there will be guns, and an expotentially greater risk of a violent ending, I do not have any disillusion about being there I know I am putting myself in a situation that is a ticking time bomb, I am not a radical, I do not want to hurt anybody nor do I want anyone to get hurt but just being there saying "I was there, I saw it, I lived it, I did my part" If you don't stand for something, if you can't find a meaning to the madness then whats the point?

I would be my wish to leave the guns at home. I understand the symbolism and the reason why he wants it this way, but I think the message can be driven home without the guns.

I think 99% of everyone considering going would think like you.

-But honestly, it only takes 1 person (1 in 10000) who wants Violence and you and everyone there are in a war for some idiots ideology. I do not doubt the sincerity of you (and most) who would go but I know that if shooting starts, there will be two sides. Police will die. Protesters will die.

People who came there for Peaceful reasons will find themselves fighting for their lives and will shoot back.

...And it only takes 1 idiot. A white Supremacist nazi, a Muslim Extremist, a crazy Alex Jones fanatic, a member of some insane cult or someone just wanting to do something for "kicks"- or maybe a Government provocateur .

This could be the spark that destroys the second amendment. This is essentially an act of aggression... This is quite scary.

-But again, I do NOT think this will ever happen. if it does I expect violence and the government to come down in force on the rest of us and causing a fight that does not exist yet.

Let's see.

Kent State--purportedly initiated by the sounds of a gunshot coming from within the group of protesters. Who shot the provoking shot is up to serious debate. Doesn't matter, still ended up a massacre.

Civil rights movement had all sorts of questionable activity that said "protesting can hurt":


Occupy movement...plenty of examples there but this one is choice as you can see the target of the batons is very likely a small Asian young woman. Woman pulled by her hair was Celeste Langan, professor and author:

Heck, they even beat elderly former poet laureate of the US Robert Hass: www.nytimes.com...
Both Hass and Langan were there to protect the students. Not as bad as Kent State and no fire hoses were used.

We also have had armed protests recently here in the US at some state capitols that went off okay with not a shot fired. I don't think that anybody got beaten with batons, water hosed, pepper sprayed and etc: www.oregonlive.com...

My analysis: So, armed protest does seem to deter brutality; however, that said, it's not hard to glean that armed protest can also be deadly. Kent State featured largely unarmed, peaceful protesters and it went bad because of one possible gunshot in the air. The odds of that repeating are really very slim. Unarmed peaceful protest would have rubber bullets, tear gas, bean bag rounds, pepper spray and batons at the worst because of Kent State. Armed march = police will be packing the lethals. Armed march on the capitol at any other time of the year, not likely for there to be a big problem. Marching on the 4th of July in the middle of firework season--makes it a very, very bad idea because there will be a much greater likelihood of fireworks going off that may be misconstrued as someone discharging a weapon by any of those involved on either side because they will all be jumpy. And they will be.

Since there is no way that I am likely to stop this or convince anybody of rescheduling for a different month, I hope from the very bottom of my heart that all goes well and smoothly. There's a good chance for that but there is still a higher than normal chance that this could go very poorly. One positive thing is that most people will likely understand the gravity of the situation and it'd take a nut job to try to instigate something. Percentage of people capable of initiating what would most likely be a slaughter is probably less than 0.01% based on statistical probability and mental illness statistics. Let's just hope that that guy stays home. *That 0.01% is the probable statistic for an individual sick enough to do so--not a likelihood of something going wrong. Loathe to try to calculate that probability because I really don't want to know.

Originally posted by WhiteAlice
Let's see.

Kent State--purportedly initiated by the sounds of a gunshot coming from within the group of protesters. Who shot the provoking shot is up to serious debate. Doesn't matter, still ended up a massacre.

Civil rights movement had all sorts of questionable activity that said "protesting can hurt":

Occupy movement...plenty of examples there but this one is choice as you can see the target of the batons is very likely a small Asian young woman. Woman pulled by her hair was Celeste Langan, professor and author:

Heck, they even beat elderly former poet laureate of the US Robert Hass: www.nytimes.com...
Both Hass and Langan were there to protect the students. Not as bad as Kent State and no fire hoses were used.

We also have had armed protests recently here in the US at some state capitols that went off okay with not a shot fired. I don't think that anybody got beaten with batons, water hosed, pepper sprayed and etc: www.oregonlive.com...

My analysis: So, armed protest does seem to deter brutality; however, that said, it's not hard to glean that armed protest can also be deadly. Kent State featured largely unarmed, peaceful protesters and it went bad because of one possible gunshot in the air. The odds of that repeating are really very slim. Unarmed peaceful protest would have rubber bullets, tear gas, bean bag rounds, pepper spray and batons at the worst because of Kent State. Armed march = police will be packing the lethals. Armed march on the capitol at any other time of the year, not likely for there to be a big problem. Marching on the 4th of July in the middle of firework season--makes it a very, very bad idea because there will be a much greater likelihood of fireworks going off that may be misconstrued as someone discharging a weapon by any of those involved on either side because they will all be jumpy. And they will be.

Since there is no way that I am likely to stop this or convince anybody of rescheduling for a different month, I hope from the very bottom of my heart that all goes well and smoothly. There's a good chance for that but there is still a higher than normal chance that this could go very poorly. One positive thing is that most people will likely understand the gravity of the situation and it'd take a nut job to try to instigate something. Percentage of people capable of initiating what would most likely be a slaughter is probably less than 0.01% based on statistical probability and mental illness statistics. Let's just hope that that guy stays home.

edit on 6/5/13 by WhiteAlice because: typo

Man agree with everything you said BUT the statistical probability.
If this were just a cross section of the populace I would agree 9and actually think it far lower) but this will DRAW that .01% who has an agenda.

Someone right now is planning some sick crime or mass murder- They plan on dying anyhow- Now they hear about this .
It will draw them like fireflys because they will have an army on their side once the shooting starts. the mayhem and damage and HISTORICAL precedent of this event would be enough to draw the crazies.

These protesters better keep their wits about them. There will be agent provocateurs at this event.
"They" are already watching Kokesh, his website, and those who are commenting on it. "They" have already started putting the pieces in place. The "anti-government" parents who kidnapped their sons and ran to Cuba, the father was commenting on Kokesh's website. These parents were followed back to their hotel room after a protest where the police found drugs. These circumstances are suspicious and I have to wonder if the drugs were planted and this situation might have been designed as a warning to Kokesh and those who are following him.

Seems like somewhat of a waste of energy...marching around with an unloaded weapon...
Kinda like driving a tank down Pennsylvania Avenue to show your firepower but you don't bring any
shells with you.
Unloaded weapons are usually only that way for (a). cleaning and storage, and (b). display.

These guys might just suprise everyone and end up booking all the hotel rooms in a 3 mile radius of their target and at
precisely (3:08) they all point their weapons in the air at 45 degrees and pull the trigger. That was in some movie I saw and it was actually funny cause they could never agree on what time to do it cause it was a bunch of rednecks that couldn't "read" time...it might have been a Monty Python skit...I forget...

Speaking of protests, someone please enlighten me as to what changes have ever come about from ANY "peaceful" protest. Kinda sounds like an oxymoron to me. I'm sure there have been thousands of "peaceful protests" throughout history that we will never hear of. It seems to me it's the "nonpeaceful" ones that go down in history books...Oh yeah, they call those revolutions or something...almost forgot.....lol

I always used to get a kick out of watching the news when they would show some foreign leader (Saddam, Osama bin,etc.) shooting automatic weapons straight up into the air. I would always sit there and wish, "Just this once let it come straight back down". Kinda funny it never happened. Made me wonder if they were really using blanks. Glad our leaders never pulled this crap; however, I was worried about GWB attempting to do this right after some speech in the Rose Garden.

Here is my solution to the whole gun thingy going on right now. We collect all the guns from everyone on earth and make
bigger bombs, or we issue every single person on the planet a registered weapon with a serial number that you keep for life. If you are stopped and don't have your weapon, you are arrested and put in jail for life. If you are stopped and have someone elses weapon on you, you are arrested and put in jail for life. Here is the catch though. Everyone only gets one bullet that is registered and has a serial number on it also. It is completely legal for you to use that bullet at anytime you like cause it is the only one you will ever get in this lifetime......Think it through and it gets really interesting!!!

It will be very interesting to see if this "protest" does in fact ever happen.

???

reply to post by just1question

Seems like somewhat of a waste of energy...marching around with an unloaded weapon...

Their guns are going to be loaded.