A Question For Athiests... Who Benefits From This?

My question is why does it have to benefit anyone to begin with? Atheism is just a way of belief for people. The way I or anyone else believes shouldn't have to benefit anyone. You are arguing from a perspective that Christianity preaches good will towards others and this inherently benefits people, yet there are countless amounts of Christians who do not practice these tenets (probably more who don't then do). If Christians do not follow their own teachings then why does a belief structure that has no teachings have to provide some sort of benefit to other people?

In the end good will towards others shouldn't be requirement of religion. It can be practiced and taught to anyone.

Originally posted by DaTroof
Forgiveness and charity and any other moral values can and should be taught by the parents, not by the threat of eternal damnation. Just my opinion.

And WHO taught the parents and their parents' parents, pass down through generations?

Is an Earth born living being born with full knowledge of moral values? If so, animal species would not have either gone extinct but had long progressed to the stars or would not be dominated by human species.

Only simple logic. No need to whine or bluster anymore or only you and your kind's ignorance will be evident.

Cheers.

reply to post by Bone75


Every Christian would benefit from those practices. The problem is that I've met very few Christians who do.

I've also rarely see an atheist harp on a Christian who's non-judgmental, humble, and soft spoken.

Please realize that what gets a Christian on an atheist's radar isn't necessarily the religious beliefs themselves. It is usually their behaviors and socially dangerous perspectives that get them attention from non-believers.

reply to post by Bone75


They may serve as a reminder of our own motives and character.

And in so doing lead to introspection, growth and wisdom.

IMO the very core of what Christianity ought to be, based on what Christ taught, is simply unconditional love.

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another."

This means exactly what it says, and as imperfect as we are we can achieve some measure of Christ's love for our fellow man. After a lifetime of striving for this attitude maybe we can even come close.

If people acted based on this core principle when engaged in acts of charity and kindness and service, then all the mention of reward doesn't matter. It's icing on the cake I suppose, but if they are acting from the commandment to love one another, then their acts are purely altruistic. If they only serve to gain reward then they are missing the point.

I would certainly concede that there are a large number of religious folks out there who don't "love one another" as Christ taught, and there are a large number who's service isn't selfless or anonymous.

But atheists must concede that there are lots of people out there that do act selflessly, for no other reason than their fellow man needs help. I don't think that these folks think, "I wanna get to heaven so I'm going to help that person." I think they see suffering and act instinctively, based on love for their fellow man. I know for me, that is how I try to live and help others...I see a need, have means to help, and help. As I walk away, I feel good in my heart, am grateful to have had the opportunity to serve and my love for my fellow man is strengthened. Likewise when I receive selfless service from another I have similar positive feelings.

There is a common misconception I think among Christians that Atheism is a rejection of all the teachings Christianity. The same failure of reasoning applies to adherents of other religions.

Its not, its a lack of belief in god. It doesn't come packaged with objections to any other propositions.

There is wisdom in the Bible (and in many other religious texts), atheists just think its human wisdom alone. We also recognise that the good is mixed up with a lot of nonsense as the authors were the product of more ignorant times.

Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101

Originally posted by DaTroof
Forgiveness and charity and any other moral values can and should be taught by the parents, not by the threat of eternal damnation. Just my opinion.

And WHO taught the parents and their parents' parents, pass down through generations?

Is an Earth born living being born with full knowledge of moral values? If so, animal species would not have either gone extinct but had long progressed to the stars or would not be dominated by human species.

Only simple logic. No need to whine or bluster anymore or only you and your kind's ignorance will be evident.

Cheers.

It is entirely possible to learn empathy and compassion for others without exposure to religious dogma. It becomes understandable to most people that if you want to have a meaningful social experience in life then it is best if you aren't morally corrupt, or you risk being outcast. The Golden Rule is universally accepted as the standard even if a person was never exposed to a religious environment. Working together is generally more efficient than working alone, and over many generations we have built and evolved a moral code to work together to create and sustain civilization.

Animals go extinct for a variety of reasons the least of which is the lack of morals. Some animals have evolved to the peak of their environment, and don't require the social skills to function in their environment. Many animals thoroughly dominated their niche in the environment until intellectually superior humans took their environment over. No other species ever had the need for a social structure with the compexity of humans to dominate their environment. No other species has dominated the planet the way humans have. Our moral code helps us to work together and that is what seperates us from other animals. If other species started forming civilizations like humans have first then they would dominate the world.

Originally posted by Bone75
Your belief is that there is no God and religion was simply made up to control the masses via brainwashing.

this sentence reminds me the Communists !!!

Originally posted by Bone75
As I expected, the first handful of responses didn't even attempt to address the question. Who benefits from THESE practices?

The very same group that benefits from the mass control ( enslavement/extortion ) of all but a few.

Who that might be is easy to see.

Whoever is continuing the religion benefits. Those are brainwashing mechanisms.

Unless there is evidence of "natural" human beings doing such things?

the church is the most evil organization in the world. and jesus is nothing more than the david koresh or jim jones of ancient times. if people are dumb enough to follow then let their sheeple minds be weak!

Originally posted by soloharmony
the church is the most evil organization in the world. and jesus is nothing more than the david koresh or jim jones of ancient times. if people are dumb enough to follow then let their sheeple minds be weak!

The "Church" is NOT Christianity.

Christianity has been infiltrated.

God and religion are total opposites.

One is the work of God, one is a man made invention.

God loves, religion hates.

God speaks truth, religion lies.

God creates, religion kills.

Satan is the author of religion, NOT God.

You've confused Religion with God.

They are OPPOSITES.

God HATES Religion.

Organized religion is evil only because Satan is behind it...

Originally posted by Murgatroid

Originally posted by soloharmony
the church is the most evil organization in the world. and jesus is nothing more than the david koresh or jim jones of ancient times. if people are dumb enough to follow then let their sheeple minds be weak!

The "Church" is NOT Christianity.

Christianity has been infiltrated.

God and religion are total opposites.

One is the work of God, one is a man made invention.

God loves, religion hates.

God speaks truth, religion lies.

God creates, religion kills.

Satan is the author of religion, NOT God.

You've confused Religion with God.

They are OPPOSITES.

God HATES Religion.

Organized religion is evil only because Satan is behind it...

And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18

Originally posted by midicon
reply to post by Bone75

 

They may serve as a reminder of our own motives and character.

And in so doing lead to introspection, growth and wisdom.

Thank you. Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

It wasn't until I actually tried to be charitable the way Jesus describes that I finally figured this out myself. It's one thing to strive to be a good person, but doing it his way will teach you more about yourself then you ever thought was there.

I challenge anyone here to try doing something charitable without anyone seeing you and without telling anyone. Try putting a bag of toys on a poor kids porch in the middle of the night without bringing a witness, and without telling a soul. It's not as easy as most think.

reply to post by Bone75


Not that I believe in Jesus but what was said was do these things by yourself for yourself all in secret as in not go to organized religion where people show how righteous they are. Hey look at me I am here every sunday. Hey look I am holier than you because I have this robe, collar,title, or chosen, special...Were the widow that gave two coins and was greater than them all. There is a tendancy for certain types to take the lead in religions were the averge person is just looking for answers but are taken advantage off. The give a man a fish he eats for a day teach a man to fish he eats for a life time is fitting here. If he knows how to fish he doesn't need anyone else to tell him how to be therefore cutting out the priests,popes,elders or whoever else gets in the way. No one is taught that is the problem, they are just kept at the kindergarten level so they need the priest.

Here is another point. Jesus was invented(by Flavians) to take control of the masses. Be passive do your own worshipping as in do not congregate form a religion to disrupt the status quo or empire and pay caesars things to caesar.

There are two different kinds of people in this world (I'm still generalizing here), and they aren't atheists or Christians -

The Christians that I'm worried about would never find themselves following any of those words of Christ. I've seen it first-hand.

Originally posted by darkbake
The Christians that I'm worried about would never find themselves following any of those words of Christ. I've seen it first-hand.

Sad but SO true.

God told Howard Pittman during his NDE that not all the sayers would be in heaven, but all the doers would be.

There are two kinds of people in the world – sayers and doers.

Many will hear and say "Yes".

Few will say yes and DO...

Doers, on the other hand, actually do all the things that sayers talk about.

Bottom line is that VERY few make it to Heaven...

On August 3, 1979, Howard Pittman, a Baptist minister for 35 years, died while on the operating table during surgery and had a near-death experience.

Instead of allowing me to enter, the angel stationed me before the Gates, slightly to one side. He instructed me to stay there and watch as the saints were permitted to enter into Heaven. This point was so important that the Holy Spirit told me Himself. I watched the fifty saints enter Heaven, but the point I missed was the time frame involved.

It was explained to me that at the same time those fifty saints died on Earth, 1,950 other humans also died; or only 50 out of 2000 made it into Heaven. That other 1,950 were not there. Where were they? That was only 2 ½ percent going to Heaven! Ninety seven point five percent did not make it! Is that representative of the entire world today? If so, 97 ½ percent of the population of this world today is not ready to meet God.

Placebo by Howard Pittman

Christians in Hell

The two angels escorted me to Hell. I then saw many pastors, elders, and deacons in Hell. I asked the angel, “I know them. They had served God faithfully while on the Earth. They had died some time ago. We all had thought they were in Heaven with God. But now, I see them all in Hell and they are crying out that it is so hot! Why are they here?” There were so many pastors, elders, deacons and all other lay believers.

The angel answered, “Pastor Park Yong Gyu, a person can appear to be a true follower of Christ on the outside but God knows the heart.

There are multitudes of churches on the Earth and many of the churches are filled with many people. However, most of them are not true Christians. They are but church attendants. The true churches will firmly believe in Heaven and a Hell. The lives of many Christians are in chaos because they do not firmly believe in Heaven and Hell. When one soul enters Heaven, one thousand cursed souls enter Hell. The rate of Heaven and Hell is 1 to 1000.” (Matt 7:14)

Heaven & Hell 1000 to 1

Bishop Wilfred Lai is the founder and senior Pastor of Jesus Celebration Center in Mombasa, Kenya and it is a church of over 15,000 members. One day he asked the Lord how many of them were ready for heaven and the Lord told him only 200. Only 1% of that church is going to heaven! Dr. Lai said that some pastors have created large groups of sinners meeting in the name of God. “What you have are not churches, but large congregations of sinners.”

Message from Pastor Wilfred Lai

Jesus explained, “Sesame! In order for someone to be saved, they must believe and receive me sincerely deep into their hearts, but most importantly it is crucial to have a sincere heart and mind. Many who have received me end up in hell, because during the prayer of confession they simply recited the prayer without sincerity!”

Jesus also said, “Many profess they have accepted and proclaimed me into their hearts, and with their mouths believe that they are saved, since they’ve believed in me for a long time, but, it is not the length of time that determines your salvation. It is the process of bearing fruits in your character that leads you closer to attaining salvation.

Many believe blindly the incorrect teaching that simply reciting with their mouths will guarantee their salvation -- and are under an illusion that they will go to heaven. Salvation should be realized through fear and trembling and each individual must grow in sincere faith.” Jesus is heartbroken and frustrated that so many souls end up in hell because they believed erroneously.

Baptize by Blazing Fire

reply to post by Bone75


Your quotes directly contradict Christianity. What do Christians do on Sunday? They certainly don't go into a room by themselves to pray, they go to churches filled with hundreds of other people to be seen while praying.

As Jesus said, they have their reward in full.

reply to post by Murgatroid


Who do you think authored the religion of Christianity? Paul. Funny that you support his every word.

Originally posted by DaTroof
reply to post by Bone75

 

The individual benefits. It's selfishness at its core.

You couldn't be more wrong. In fact the exact opposite is true. He's teaching you how to overcome selfishness. Its not until we try these things and fail that we finally see what we're TRULY made of, and just how selfish we really are.