Can You Not Contemplate the Possibility of a Conspiracy?

reply to post by phishyblankwaters

Sure, there's plenty of ways that it can be a conspiracy, but this Alex Jones every time someone farts it's a false flag nonesense is making all of us look like fools, it really is.

We can't all look like anything. We are all individuals. Thousands of people use this site and they all have different opinions. I can't imagine feeling you look like a fool for using a resource. There are many different opinions here, have you only seen the ones you consider "insane".

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

That there is the main point.

Then you should rethink your paragraph in the OP complaining about people who don't agree with your theory trying to take part in the discussion.

Could you please quote where I complain of people who don't agree with me? Thank you.

Originally posted by Char-Lee
Could you please quote where I complain of people who don't agree with me? Thank you.

BINGO...

I think he just illustrated and demonstrated your point very well.

reply to post by MrJohnSmith

Respectfully, this a public forum, and the " Nay Sayers " help to balance the ego massaging conspiracy theorists, making for interesting debate...

And the yay sayers help to balance the ego massaging so-called debunkers ans skeptics...

You're always going to have the extremists on both sides of any debate. And you're always going to have a majority looking to confirm their own bias. Few people have taken the time to train their mind to look at evidence with any real objectivity. It's too much work, and gets in the way of their ego.

It's much easier to see things the way we want them to be, than to objectively consider what we don't want to see. I think Hoover summed up the American mindset very well, decades ago(my signature). He's still right.

reply to post by Klassified


Even those of us who wish to keep an open view ahead be it filled with light or darkness we wish to see the truth.
We sometimes feel that we are proposing things to big to be real, and yet if you are a reader like myself you know how truly strange real can be. I have read 7 books a week throughout all the years while I raised my children and had a home bookkeeping job.

I was a fast reader and a ferocious reader from childhood, every new town meant a new library that I would find the first week! I had read the great works of all the great giants by age 11, we had a 27 volume (each book was 6" thick) set all in tooled leather that was thrown out by a rich person (wonder what it would be worth today). I read them all even the scary Poe and the over my head authors that wrote so strangely from long ago. I read the bible out of curiosity the first time at age 12, all the way through.

So I see in a very broad spectrum and I never want to narrow my view, I want to focus it through listening and reading and discussion. I wish that could happen with respect and decorum.

I can see that ATS does try for that so I guess that is as good as it can get when all kinds of us, various humans with different issues are involved. Some problems and misunderstandings are as simple as reading comprehension abilities all being on different levels.

reply to post by Gazrok

Still, unless the person can counter with good points backed by evidence, that person's opinion is simply given less weight by other thread readers.

This is true as it should be, and yet I have a strong intuition, I truly have never in life been wrong about a person when I decide their intentions are "good" or not. I have had persons proved out as I said over and over again.

I don't expect anyone to believe that or it effect their stance, but I would like to think that those with intuition and possibly psychic abilities or any other "out there" gift or perceived gift, could voice their feeling in that area on a website like ATS, just to add that they feel this way, without derision. it does not take away from the discussion just to get it out there in a sentence or paragraph does it?

So what I am thinking is lacking, "proof' or "evidence" should not hold one back from speaking their mind, I think everyones voice could be heard if it is offered in polite fashion to converse?

Expression by each will lead them and others to search if I am not mistaken, to see if what they feel or say or think holds up after information is gleaned.

Conspiracy is two or more people planning and/or engaging in criminal activity.

So by that definition,
The Boston Bombings
9/11
Oklahoma Bombing
and others are conspiracies!

I'm not trying to be obtuse. I am trying to point out that maybe people are using different definitions. Many subjects that were labled "conspiracy theories", over the course of time and investigation, have turned out to be true.
Examples are:
Sinking of the Lusitania
Pearl Harbor
Gulf of Tonkin
Attack on USS Liberty
MKUltra
Secret Testing on Citizens and Soldiers
US Torture

These came to light because people took the available info, discussed it, investigated, and came up facts to prove the theory of conspiracy.

reply to post by Magister

These came to light because people took the available info, discussed it, investigated, and came up facts to prove the theory of conspiracy.

There is nothing I love more then when someone finally makes the case enough to change my view. It has happened many times in my life, lasting changes.

I know I may be prone to talk a subject to death online if I can't get to the truth and clearly don't see the missing pieces of the puzzle. it is hard, not like an in person conversation where you can read people beyond their words and because of course there are so many people involved. But this is the reason I feel we can actually help each other get answers if we are cooperative and be patient in discussing something.

It seperates the smart from the stupid most times in my opinion, resaerch yourself and come to your own conclusion, don't take whats fed to you, like what happens with most who exhale heavily when they hear a conspiracy theory, they can't take it that what the news or government told them might not be true.

reply to post by Char-Lee


I think it is a conspiracy to deny conspiracies about conspiracies being denied.

There is nothing I love more then when someone finally makes the case enough to change my view. It has happened many times in my life, lasting changes.

Quite true and I'm the first to admit it. I was a absolute fool about my first impressions at Mount Carmel and Vernon Howell. I knew ATF agents and called them friends-never in a million years would I thought they would commit an act of war against American citizens-but they did.

Problem is the internet is not a reliable source. You can't quote something that can change as easily as any information on the internet can.

And of course those with social deficiencies that run from neurotic to psychotic and their need for attention hurt internet discussions on both sides of any issue or debate in the form of a civilized discussion.

Consider the dis-information agents... What is dis-information?

Disinformation
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

See also: Denial and deception

For other uses, see Disinformation (disambiguation).

Disinformation is intentionally false or inaccurate information that is spread deliberately. For this reason, it is synonymous with and sometimes called black propaganda. It is an act of deception and false statements to convince someone of untruth. Disinformation should not be confused with misinformation, information that is unintentionally false.

Unlike traditional propaganda techniques designed to engage emotional support, disinformation is designed to manipulate the audience at the rational level by either discrediting conflicting information or supporting false conclusions. A common disinformation tactic is to mix some truth and observation with false conclusions and lies, or to reveal part of the truth while presenting it as the whole (a limited hangout).

Another technique of concealing facts, or censorship, is also used if the group can affect such control. When channels of information cannot be completely closed, they can be rendered useless by filling them with disinformation, effectively lowering their signal-to-noise ratio and discrediting the opposition by association with many easily disproved false claims.

Just saying.... Consider this may be the cause of all the attacks that happen here. Some of the attacks also come in the form of denial of reality.... It's a tangled web.

Actually this is one of my pet peeves and biggest problem that I have with ATS, the motto of this site is “deny ignorance”, yet there is a disclaimer on almost every forum that members should be mindful of ATS’s tradition of focusing on conspiracy theories. How the hell can you “deny ignorance” when you also openly state that your focus is on conspiracies?

It’s a paradox.

ATS is my view should be either about “Denying Ignorance” or “focusing on conspiracies..” because you can’t do both.

I personally am here for the later of the two, I am here to deny ignorance and quite often conspiracies are just one big mangled up mess of ignorance all twisted and moulded until it looks like a “fact”. I am actually of the opinion that most if not all conspiracies are form through ignorance and that is why I am here and why I have such a big problem of focusing on conspiracies yet having a big “deny ignorance” banner at the top of the page. You can’t do both.

I would never condone any personal attacks or blatant attempts to troll a thread and derail a thread however I have often been accused of doing just that. Usually it’s not that I am trolling, insulting people or going off topic it’s because I am highlighting some little factoid that renders someone’s OP invalid. Quite often in my experience there are quite a lot of members who like to accuse people of derailing a thread and personally insulting them when another is pointing out that they are just wrong and ignorant of the facts. these people usually do the following when they have been challenged with a bit of information that shows there thread as being incorrect.

• The state that whatever information has rendered their thread as rubbish as being “in on it” in some way ie “that’s the MSN you can’t trust them more than my source”
• Argue that any use of logic is just a example of “trolling” or being a “shill”
• Once/if they accept that actually yes their thread is wrong other than accept that they then go wildly off-topic to prove some other point.
• Once they have accepted that they were wrong they accuse whoever corrected them of insulting them

You know what I could go on all day on this topic but as I keep saying I think this is the fundamental problem with ATS and its gotten worce recently.

Anyway basically…..

People on ATS need to stop hunting for the next big conspiracy and start hunting for the truth.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Unless of course we choose to speak about things like the Holocaust or Sandy Hook... the Government tells us the whole truth about THOSE "conspiracies" because it would insensitive to ask a question.

ATS is a conspiracy website.