Can You Not Contemplate the Possibility of a Conspiracy?

Why the anger? Why the personal Attacks? Why not stay with discussion, that is how we learn and grow and develop both information and ourselves.

What is a conspiracy theory?

Definition of CONSPIRACY THEORY : a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators

www.merriam-webster.com...

Is ATS a conspiracy website/ Well not totally but here is what they say.

While "conspiracy theorists" are often derided or the target of jokes, the fact remains that Americans love a good conspiracy theory. Many of the more popular and highest grossing movies are based on core ideas of UFO's, government conspiracies and related coverups.

AboveTopSecret.com is the Internet's largest and most popular discussion board community dedicated to the intelligent exchange of ideas and debate on a wide range of "alternative topics" such as conspiracies, UFO's, paranormal, secret societies, political scandals, new world order, terrorism, and dozens of related topics with a diverse mix of users from all over the world.

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Now I would like to know why people who decide to read a thread that is clearly going to discuss a conspiracy theory, do NOT discuss any theory but come there to DERIDE anyone who will not just bow to the mainstream thought.

They continuously try to herd all the people on the thread into feeling guilty for having a theory outside mainstream as though, it means you don;'t care for victims or possible victims or persons effected by whatever the scenario is?

I know persons will spout the saying "deny Ignorance" but this is clearly listed on ATS Facts page as an addition to how we should discuss and not just do an auto shut out of peoples thoughts and ideas just because we are not seeing what they do. We should discuss the reasons for our ideas, theories or (hypothesis).

A hypothesis attempts to answer questions by putting forth a plausible explanation that has yet to be rigorously tested.

Deny ignorance is what we do. It's how we think. It's how we talk. It's how we listen.

reply to post by Char-Lee

Originally posted by Char-Lee
Now I would like to know why people who decide to read a thread that is clearly going to discuss a conspiracy theory, do NOT discuss any theory but come there to DERIDE anyone who will not just bow to the mainstream thought.

Disagreeing with a conspiracy theory IS discussing it. Being a skeptic in general, I give my opinion on the conspiracy theories I see here. Most times, I disagree with them, because it becomes clear that the "theorists" are believing the most unlikely scenarios.

Disagreeing with a conspiracy theory is not the same as deriding those who believe it.

I don't know which particular thread or threads you're referring to, but if someone puts forth a theory that is unbelievable, I'm going to give my opinion and say why.

reply to post by Char-Lee

Now I would like to know why people who decide to read a thread that is clearly going to discuss a conspiracy theory, do NOT discuss any theory but come there to DERIDE anyone who will not just bow to the mainstream thought.

The answer is sadly simple....ego masturbation.

Sometimes though, rarely, you just see something that you know is blatantly wrong, and just screams out for correction. Still, unless the person can counter with good points backed by evidence, that person's opinion is simply given less weight by other thread readers.

If not the above two reasons, then it is an honest desire to actually debate the point.

These people NEVER have any evidence.

All they have are insults.

Insults are a sign of desperation.

Since they have nothing intelligent to say, all they have left is to attempt to manipulate emotions.

reply to post by Gazrok

Sometimes though, rarely, you just see something that you know is blatantly wrong, and just screams out for correction.

I have no problem with that, it IS discussion, but in giving your opinion of the wrongness of the concept or idea of another person, do you need to say, "shame on you for thinking such things" moralizing in such a way as to try and guilt others out of a discussion,. It seems to be a trend, place blame, guilt, for having thought, ideas.

Then of course the calling of names "ignorant" "stupid" "unfeeling" etc. Often not aimed even at the ideas but at the poster. To me this line is an attempt to stop conversations and it often does as people are afraid of the abuse and they "Move Along".

I think there have been enough real conspiracies throughout the governments History to justify questioning of events in general.

It would be one thing if Government didn't spend the majority of the time trying to screw the populace, but even a quick search of Google could give you a long list.

From things like Watergate, to the Bay of pigs.

reply to post by Char-Lee


The goal in any debate is to STOP discussion with the listener weighing your opinion more heavily. Just because the tactic used (personal attack) is fallacious, doesn't mean it doesn't work. It is a violation of the T&C if directed at the person vs. the idea or point though.

People who call other members idiots often only succeed in making themselves look like one though, so take solace in that.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Originally posted by Char-Lee
Now I would like to know why people who decide to read a thread that is clearly going to discuss a conspiracy theory, do NOT discuss any theory but come there to DERIDE anyone who will not just bow to the mainstream thought.

Disagreeing with a conspiracy theory IS discussing it. Being a skeptic in general, I give my opinion on the conspiracy theories I see here. Most times, I disagree with them, because it becomes clear that the "theorists" are believing the most unlikely scenarios.

Disagreeing with a conspiracy theory is not the same as deriding those who believe it.

I don't know which particular thread or threads you're referring to, but if someone puts forth a theory that is unbelievable, I'm going to give my opinion and say why.

And so you should give your opinion On The Theory. True disagreeing is Not deriding.

Most times, I disagree with them, because it becomes clear that the "theorists" are believing the most unlikely scenarios.

Sometimes and throughout history the most UNLIKELY theory has proved to be true. Disagreeing is anyone prerogative, but discussion without blame and insults gathers the proof one way or another in the end.

Some people when they disagree try to stop all discussion on the subject by taunting, defaming and targeting posters.

reply to post by benrl

I think there have been enough real conspiracies throughout the governments History to justify questioning of events in general.

Absolutely, a very valid point. Even in "out there" topics, like the different conclusions and lies in the different Roswell investigations (like trying to use dummies to explain bodies, when the dummy tests were 5 YEARS AFTER the Roswell Incident)!

Originally posted by Murgatroid
These people NEVER have any evidence.

All they have are insults.

Insults are a sign of desperation.

Since they have nothing intelligent to say, all they have left is to attempt to manipulate emotions.

You may well be right there, but sometimes when there becomes a gang of these, I start to wonder if they are not on a mission, to actually stop discussion.

They seem to have the power to turn the tide of fact gathering, interpretation and questioning leading to more thought and information gathering. The very screening and refining of information stops so the splinters of it all get spread around a hundred threads as people leave to go somewhere they are not being attacked, or made to feel like a heartless feelingless slob just for thinking.

Originally posted by Gazrok
reply to post by benrl

 

I think there have been enough real conspiracies throughout the governments History to justify questioning of events in general.

Absolutely, a very valid point. Even in "out there" topics, like the different conclusions and lies in the different Roswell investigations (like trying to use dummies to explain bodies, when the dummy tests were 5 YEARS AFTER the Roswell Incident)!

Exactly, even the crazy chem trail stuff is lent credence by things done by the government, like forced sterilization, exposure of radiation on the populace, the Tuskegee experiments.

All cases where the government directly dosed people with out their knowledge or permission, So of course someone might think the government would still do such things.

People who respond that conspiracies are crazy and never happen, are really the deluded ones, so much has been proven in the recent past, it would be silly not to take everything the government does with out a discerning eye.

reply to post by benrl

Originally posted by benrl
I think there have been enough real conspiracies throughout the governments History to justify questioning of events in general.

Agree completely. And I'm all for questioning. I guess we're talking about two extremes of the replies to CT threads. I definitely don't agree with using words such as "stupid" to describe a poster OR a theory, but some people will make everything into a conspiracy theory, even if they have to depend on fantasy to get it to come out right. For example, there are certain theories that would rely on having thousands of people keeping it quiet and that's just not logical.

Good discussion. Gotta go.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

For example, there are certain theories that would rely on having thousands of people keeping it quiet and that's just not logical.

See actually that is how some may see it, but others can see ways in which only a few insiders would have to know the truth.

reply to post by Char-Lee


Respectfully, this a public forum, and the " Nay Sayers " help to balance the ego massaging conspiracy theorists, making for interesting debate...

And after all, everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether we agree with it or not.

reply to post by Char-Lee


I see information in these things like a bulk mass of stuff that needs sorting.

You get it all loaded, which is hard because you have to find all the information both fact and conjecture. You pile it all on a screen and start to move it around, sifting out the fine and true stuff and leaving the junk on the screen.

Now what seems to be happening, is along comes some persons, when the screen is being loaded, and they make people feel stupid invalid, targeted or even evil for the whole process, and off we go... no screening move on nothing to see here!
Then it has to start over elsewhere and on and on and we never get enough work in the processing in one area to learn any facts or separate them from the lies.

Originally posted by MrJohnSmith
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Respectfully, this a public forum, and the " Nay Sayers " help to balance the ego massaging conspiracy theorists, making for interesting debate...

And after all, everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether we agree with it or not.

I am not discussing disagreeing, maybe you need to read the OP again.

reply to post by MrJohnSmith

Respectfully

That there is the main point.

reply to post by Char-Lee


Now see here is the problem. Are you expecting those who disagree with your THEORY to just go away? How the hell do you expect to expand your theory? Prove it? Do you just want accolades and a slap on the back?

We're not here to give each other lip service, we're here for answers. That said, some people do exactly what you are talking about, but for the most part, it's people like me coming in poking holes in your theory.

That's the entire point of this site. I don't have to agree with you to discuss it.

"Hey man,. boston was a false flag"
"yeah"
"Yuppers"
"I know right?"

What the hell is the point to THAT thread?

But let me ask you.

Can You Not Contemplate the Possibility that it's NOT a Conspiracy?

clearly many of you can't, it HAS to be a conspiracy, and anyone pointing out inconsistencies or problems with your theory is a closed minded sheep.

honestly, if this rant is how you truely feel ATS should function, i suggest you go register at GPL. But... if you merely want to promote actual discussion, then I agree with you. I can easily disagree with your theory, showing you why I disagree with it, without being a dick.

Just like you can listen to my points without being a dick. It's give and take. Without the skeptics, you are just a bunch of people all slapping each other on the back for "figuring it out" and "waking up".

This whole Boston thing has just about turned me off of this site, because I am now privy to the depths of insanity some people are treading here.

i don't disagree, everything should be questioned, everything should be looked at from all angles, but once you ignore logic and reason, you aren't doing good, you are doing harm.

This Boston fiasco, "actors" "no real bombs" blah blah blah. It's rediculous. People are dead, hundreds hurt, the guys involved got into a shootout with the cops, are on film leaving the bombs where they exploded. But I'm supposed to believe ALL witnesses were actors? I'm supposed to believe that everyone at the event is keeping quiet or lying?

Sure, there's plenty of ways that it can be a conspiracy, but this Alex Jones every time someone farts it's a false flag nonesense is making all of us look like fools, it really is. In fact, I no longer admit to being an active user of this site because of nonense like that. I can poinit out why it's nonsense without being rude, often I do not, but I do try. Sadly, I'm not representative of the whole.

And I'm a damn conspiracy theorist !

reply to post by Char-Lee

That there is the main point.

Then you should rethink your paragraph in the OP complaining about people who don't agree with your theory trying to take part in the discussion.

Originally posted by phishyblankwaters
reply to post by Char-Lee

 

Now see here is the problem. Are you expecting those who disagree with your THEORY to just go away? How the hell do you expect to expand your theory? Prove it? Do you just want accolades and a slap on the back?

We're not here to give each other lip service, we're here for answers. That said, some people do exactly what you are talking about, but for the most part, it's people like me coming in poking holes in your theory.

That's the entire point of this site. I don't have to agree with you to discuss it.

"Hey man,. boston was a false flag"
"yeah"
"Yuppers"
"I know right?"

What the hell is the point to THAT thread?

But let me ask you.

Can You Not Contemplate the Possibility that it's NOT a Conspiracy?

clearly many of you can't, it HAS to be a conspiracy, and anyone pointing out inconsistencies or problems with your theory is a closed minded sheep.

honestly, if this rant is how you truely feel ATS should function, i suggest you go register at GPL.

Well again I don't see how you could be reading what I said. I enjoy and am glad for those that disagree with me, no truth can come from one persons theory.

I am not good about those who call me names for having thought or ideas, nor who feel I am stupid and don't keep it to themselves. I don't like being called a "closed minded sheep" nor tell them to leave the website, or any other name and I have never and will never call a person a name nor put them down in a personal way.

You should reread, I didn't say anything about the function of the website other then quote what they say under Facts.