North Korea sentences Kenneth Bae to 15 years' hard labour for unspecified crimes

I place this here because the world media seems pretty closely agreed in coverage that this is simply a political game North Korea is playing to use this man as a pawn and leverage for whatever they're actually after out of the International tensions.


I really feel bad for this guy at this point. I understand by reports that average, no name prisoners in North Korea live in something like purgatory for how days flow and life exists. What must it be like for someone with extra special attention to actually trying pinching the Western powers for leverage?

A North Korean court has sentenced the US citizen Kenneth Bae to 15 years, hard labour after finding him guilty of unspecified crimes against the state in a move possibly intended to force concessions from Washington.

Bae was arrested in November 2012 in Rason, a special economic zone in North Korea's far north-eastern region bordering China and Russia. His trial at the country's supreme court began on Tuesday, according to the official KCNA news agency, which referred to Bae as Pae Jun-ho, the North Korean rendering of his name. The sentence was announced on Thursday.

This isn't sounding real good for him. Not good at all, I'm thinking.

Bae, a tour operator from the US state of Washington, was accused of attempting to overthrow the government, a crime that carries a possible death penalty. In its latest dispatch KCNA did not state the exact nature of his alleged crimes. South Korean human rights campaigners have speculated that authorities were angered by photographs Bae had reportedly taken of starving children and the public executions of dissenters.

Source

I can't help but wonder if things like the Vice Guide to North Korea played a role in just nailing the next one caught doing something similar, right to the wall with railroad spikes. I mean, Vice Guide made monkeys out of them and they obviously had no clue until well after Vice left.

I love the 3pt guide and appreciate the risks the guys took to do it. I learned a great deal from it about life in North Korea. However, I wondered while I was watching it, what they would have done if they'd known what the Vice guys were up to and their true intentions for portraying the North's people and Government? I think we know now.

I hope for his sake that he IS being used as a pawn and not merely an example. Examples don't get released in grand gestures, in my experience of watching world events. They are made to suffer far harder for the sake of being examples.

There is a reason that I do not travel to foreign countries and surely do not go to ones with ...questionable leadership and laws.
Here in the US, I know what to expect and alway color within the lines.
If you trabvel to a country that is "hostile" to your countries stance, you are kind of guilty of negligence.
Sure I would love to travel and see historical sights but, there are more than enough beautiful places to see within the US for me.

Black Stone on Top of a White Stone

I shall die in Paris, in a rainstorm,
On a day I already remember.
I shall die in Paris-- it does not bother me--
Doubtless on a Thursday, like today, in autumn.

It shall be a Thursday, because today, Thursday
As I put down these lines, I have set my shoulders
To the evil. Never like today have I turned,
And headed my whole journey to the ways where I am alone.

César Vallejo is dead. They struck him,
All of them, though he did nothing to them,
They hit him hard with a stick and hard also
With the end of a rope. Witnesses are: the Thursdays,
The shoulder bones, the loneliness, the rain, and the roads...

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I have always said that if any of my kids were taken prisoner in a foreign country, no matter if they were innocent or guilty of ANYTHING I would move heaven and earth to get them out and safe. If it meant selling everything I have to do it then so be it. I would hire the best merceneries I could afford and "let the dogs off the leash" so to speak. Because I have that attitude is why I find it difficult to comprehend why shapelle corbey's family have let her rot in that indonesian prison for so long.

Now don't misunderstand why I say this because 15 years hard labor is something pretty horrific, but each country has it's own laws. Even if we do not agree with the laws, if we go to that country and break them we are in danger of arrest, imprisonment or execution.

tell me if it is legal in North Korean law to photograph children in poverty or public executions. Now if he was falsely accused ok, but if he did take those photographs then he broke the law, knowing what the law was, and suffers the consequence of that law being breached in that country (regardless of his beliefs).

If you say that is unfair then lets examine the USA. Someone comes to America and their belief is that certain people should not be allowed to walk the street and kill such a person, regardless of their personal belief, they will be tried according to what? Law applying to that state or country they are in.

Where is the difference please?

Originally posted by Agent008
Black Stone on Top of a White Stone

I shall die in Paris, in a rainstorm,
On a day I already remember.
I shall die in Paris-- it does not bother me--
Doubtless on a Thursday, like today, in autumn.

It shall be a Thursday, because today, Thursday
As I put down these lines, I have set my shoulders
To the evil. Never like today have I turned,
And headed my whole journey to the ways where I am alone.

César Vallejo is dead. They struck him,
All of them, though he did nothing to them,
They hit him hard with a stick and hard also
With the end of a rope. Witnesses are: the Thursdays,
The shoulder bones, the loneliness, the rain, and the roads...

I kept looking at it but the message didn't self destruct!

I went on google to find more information about Kenneth Bae (Pae Jun Ho) He was born in Daegu South Korea and is a devout Christian.
His heinous crimes against DPRK include.....
Feeding Orphans. Oh the Humanity

www.680news.com...

"Friends and colleagues say Bae, a Korean American who was living in Washington state, was based in the Chinese border city of Dalian and travelled frequently to North Korea to feed orphans."

We may know of him as a tourism operator who took photos of public executions and impoverished individuals, but what if he really was there for other, more discreet purposes? Now, there is no evidence of this tour operator being connected to intelligence agencies, but I bet someone such as him would be of moderate to high value to allied agencies. What if he really was part of a cell there to spy on, or even as NK has suggested, to overthrow their regime? This is just speculation obviously, but it isn't far fetched.

Seriously, this is why I quit traveling abroad.

We could also look at some insane sentencing coming from our "friends" in Dubai (which our Government will not give our citizens help in) or some horror stories coming from mexico (of which I personally know someone who was imprisoned there and his family blackmailed for to "buy" his freedom back)

-Plus, we have no clue what happened. He could have been a spy, saboteur and our media and Government would portray him as "innocent" merely to put a stain on DPRK .. Or he IS innocent - But truth here s elusive.

The moral of the story is- be careful where traveling. And "Human Rights" are all in the eye of the beholder- Still waiting for my best friend to get out of Prison for growing cannabis (he received 4 years for 20 plants)- Then his family can get off of welfare if he can potentially get his job back (they were never on assistance until he was imprisoned and their home seized)- So yeah...

For folks looking to play devil's advocate on this, I'd ask that you check the source and look at other stories out. It's not "did he break the law" or " well, it's illegal, isn't it?" I think it's a better question of What law and What was illegal here? Maybe there were laws broken...but actually being able to articulate one or two would have been extremely helpful, wouldn't it? He's guilty of something, even they can't actually explain, because he admitted to ..well, something, even they can't quite lay out for anyone ..because they say so.

Typical North Korean logic and thinking as the world has come to know it. Reality is what they say it is and explanations are for picky people who don't have Faith in Dear Leader for all he says is right and just or some such crap.

At least the Soviet Union had specific charges levied and prosecuted. It may still have been a show trial with only one possible outcome for a Westerner caught in their net way back in the bad old days, but they understood they really did have to come up with something solid to at least claim a man did.

This suggests some things... Implies others ..and always the overhanging "He hurt North Korea!". Nothing specific for actions taken or offenses by those actions. I think that's what I find outrageous along with others around the world.

Well, in all fairness he is the one who willingly went to a nation known for arresting foreigners for pretty much no reason at all under the charge of espionage... He's an idiot.

As Super Chicken used to say, "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it Fred..."

(you younger folks will have to just Google it).

This suggests some things... Implies others ..and always the overhanging "He hurt North Korea!". Nothing specific for actions taken or offenses by those actions. I think that's what I find outrageous along with others around the world.

By "hurting NK" he probably called Un, "your immenseness" instead of "your eminence" ....it's a simple mistake...

Originally posted by g146541
There is a reason that I do not travel to foreign countries and surely do not go to ones with ...questionable leadership and laws.
Here in the US, I know what to expect and alway color within the lines.
If you trabvel to a country that is "hostile" to your countries stance, you are kind of guilty of negligence.
Sure I would love to travel and see historical sights but, there are more than enough beautiful places to see within the US for me.

That is such an insular view of the world. I agree that travelling to places like North Korea would not be something I would do. However there are many countries around the world I would visit and have done.

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss

Originally posted by g146541
There is a reason that I do not travel to foreign countries and surely do not go to ones with ...questionable leadership and laws.
Here in the US, I know what to expect and alway color within the lines.
If you trabvel to a country that is "hostile" to your countries stance, you are kind of guilty of negligence.
Sure I would love to travel and see historical sights but, there are more than enough beautiful places to see within the US for me.

That is such an insular view of the world. I agree that travelling to places like North Korea would not be something I would do. However there are many countries around the world I would visit and have done.

You know...I totally see your point. But my refusal to travel has nothing to do with ethnocentric view points or whatever, just have witnessed (or heard of) far too many things happening.

-Take for instance even canada. I used to go to Canada probably 3 times a month (I lived close to the Windsor border) and it was a blast. I love the Canadians, love their Country and enjoy visiting. Anyhow, everyone I knew would go to Canada all the time because of the drinking laws (in the US it was 21 and in Canada 19) hit the Clubs,grab a room, eat Pizza at mcdonalds (really...) and with the full knowledge that no "Canadian Mountie" is going to Blackmail me or something.
Today even crossing the border is insane- it really "feels" like going to a different Nation (I know thats what it IS- But it never used to feel that way) and is worse than crossing into mexico during the 1990s . Even needing a Passport and being treated with suspicion, harassed at the border (both sides) and often being searched and your items pawed through and scrutinized.
-It just isnt worth it.

I used to love to Travel, now I hardly leave my State- Its just such a hassle now and with crazy things like this story) becoming more and more common I would just assume stay home. =/

Originally posted by DarKPenguiN

Originally posted by Wirral Bagpuss

Originally posted by g146541
There is a reason that I do not travel to foreign countries and surely do not go to ones with ...questionable leadership and laws.
Here in the US, I know what to expect and alway color within the lines.
If you trabvel to a country that is "hostile" to your countries stance, you are kind of guilty of negligence.
Sure I would love to travel and see historical sights but, there are more than enough beautiful places to see within the US for me.

That is such an insular view of the world. I agree that travelling to places like North Korea would not be something I would do. However there are many countries around the world I would visit and have done.

You know...I totally see your point. But my refusal to travel has nothing to do with ethnocentric view points or whatever, just have witnessed (or heard of) far too many things happening.

-Take for instance even canada. I used to go to Canada probably 3 times a month (I lived close to the Windsor border) and it was a blast. I love the Canadians, love their Country and enjoy visiting. Anyhow, everyone I knew would go to Canada all the time because of the drinking laws (in the US it was 21 and in Canada 19) hit the Clubs,grab a room, eat Pizza at mcdonalds (really...) and with the full knowledge that no "Canadian Mountie" is going to Blackmail me or something.
Today even crossing the border is insane- it really "feels" like going to a different Nation (I know thats what it IS- But it never used to feel that way) and is worse than crossing into mexico during the 1990s . Even needing a Passport and being treated with suspicion, harassed at the border (both sides) and often being searched and your items pawed through and scrutinized.
-It just isnt worth it.

I used to love to Travel, now I hardly leave my State- Its just such a hassle now and with crazy things like this story) becoming more and more common I would just assume stay home. =/

You've kind of got this backwards, in my opinion. I love to travel, but what ruins it for me is having to come BACK INTO the US. I've traveled all over the world (including one communist state) and have never even come close to the level of paranoia I experience when re-entering the United States. How many checkpoints must I go through? How many times must I be made to feel like a terrorist for coming back to my HOME? How many stern-faced TSA guys do I have to navigate without arousing any kind of suspicion for just trying to get back HOME?

I recently returned home from Europe after attending my father's funeral. I was already in a dark mood (naturally) and when the TSA agent yelled at me for daring to have a bottle of water from the shop in my bag....it was too much. I sat at the gate a complete mess, vowing never to travel again......just because of the thought of trying to get back HOME again.

reply to post by DarKPenguiN


You can thank 911 for the difference at the border.
The US tightened the regulations to enter per re-enter the US and Canada,to a lesser extent, followed suit.
It's unfortunate but it is the new reality.

reply to post by Gazrok

Well, in all fairness he is the one who willingly went to a nation known for arresting foreigners for pretty much no reason at all under the charge of espionage... He's an idiot.

As Super Chicken used to say, "You knew the job was dangerous when you took it Fred..."

As I've come to understand this situation? I think you're more right than that suggests. It sounds like he not only went willingly into a place where you leave only if they choose to allow it ...or keep you if that strikes their fancy. He was there to photograph and record poor conditions and human rights abuses.

A small thing we'd rightfully be furious over a Western Government throwing someone into a rock quarry, making little ones out of big ones for 15 years over....but as you note, he paid his money and took his chances.

I think it's tragic, and still wrong in that they can't just come right out and say 'making us look bad buys a conviction in our house', but..in the end..he did pretty much go up to the Emperor and laugh at his state of undress.

Havent North Korea dont this before? Yet after 2 years they let them out and they send them to one of the "nicer" prisons IE you wont be beaten to deaf of starved in the first 2 months.